Want a "Small High Lumen" Thrower

Digital · Mar 15, 2012

I've been reading around here for a while and registered recently. One thing I've noticed is a lack of threads on smaller thrower lights. I realize that with shallow and skinny heads that you can only hope for so much throw and also with a smaller design you lack battery size to get that beam out there. None the less I was hoping for some opinions on what you guys thought would be the best light for my needs.

I want maximum throw. x1 18650 size. 750-1000+ lumens. easy 1 handed operation. The light will be more tactical and momentary. I don't care if it does 1500 lumens for a minute and then the battery runs out, long as it gets a super bright-tight beam way down range when it ignites, and it does it every time.

The only lights that seem to be up to the task of vomiting light like that are the zebra and the spark. Sadly thought they lack any type of throw and I was hoping that after a lot of reading I had managed to miss a obvious light that fit my expectations.

TEEJ · Mar 15, 2012

Digital said:
I've been reading around here for a while and registered recently. One thing I've noticed is a lack of threads on smaller thrower lights. I realize that with shallow and skinny heads that you can only hope for so much throw and also with a smaller design you lack battery size to get that beam out there. None the less I was hoping for some opinions on what you guys thought would be the best light for my needs.

I want maximum throw. x1 18650 size. 750-1000+ lumens. easy 1 handed operation. The light will be more tactical and momentary. I don't care if it does 1500 lumens for a minute and then the battery runs out, long as it gets a super bright-tight beam way down range when it ignites, and it does it every time.

The only lights that seem to be up to the task of vomiting light like that are the zebra and the spark. Sadly thought they lack any type of throw and I was hoping that after a lot of reading I had managed to miss a obvious light that fit my expectations.

Well, the Deerelight Aspheric, and the DEFT edc LR+ will blow the doors off what you've looked at so far.

And, for a THROWER, don't look at lumens...its the wrong number. You want Lux at 1 meter, or equivalent, to compare.

I have the DEFT edc LR, and I can put a square beam of light on a target ~ 400 - 600 meters away with no problems, and it fits in my pocket, and takes a single 18650.

The secret is what's IN that little head.

If you've seen a projector (Like for slides, digital power point projectors, etc...) - they throw akin to that...you get a picture of the LED itself, projected onto a wall (Or whatever), hundreds of yards away.

That and the Deerelight are both also able to work as weapon lights for example....a tight beam to give a distant aim point.

:hitit:

For perspective...an ordinary household incandescent lightbulb might give off 1,400 lumens...but you can't see things a few hundred yards away with it...because lumens alone don't tell you where the light goes.

A large reflector can help to focus those lumens, so they form a nice line, and all march out of the light in the same direction...and the larger and better shaped that reflector is...the fewer of those guys march off in other directions....and the more of them that end up at your target.

If you can't have a big 'ol reflector....the next step is to take advantage of an LED NOT emitting light in a sphere, its directional...so if you take off the glass dome of the LED, and maximize the amount of that directional emission...you can get those guys marching in a pretty damn straight line from the get go, and not need a giant reflector bowl to do it.

aimxplode · Mar 15, 2012

TEEJ said:
Well, the Deerelight Aspheric, and the DEFT edc LR+ will blow the doors off what you've looked at so far.

How much does a Deerelight Aspheric setup go for? I was always interested in one.

Digital · Mar 15, 2012

TEEJ said:
Well, the Deerelight Aspheric, and the DEFT edc LR+ will blow the doors off what you've looked at so far.

And, for a THROWER, don't look at lumens...its the wrong number. You want Lux at 1 meter, or equivalent, to compare.

I have the DEFT edc LR, and I can put a square beam of light on a target ~ 400 - 600 meters away with no problems, and it fits in my pocket, and takes a single 18650.

The secret is what's IN that little head.

If you've seen a projector (Like for slides, digital power point projectors, etc...) - they throw akin to that...you get a picture of the LED itself, projected onto a wall (Or whatever), hundreds of yards away.

That and the Deerelight are both also able to work as weapon lights for example....a tight beam to give a distant aim point.

For perspective...an ordinary household incandescent lightbulb might give off 1,400 lumens...but you can't see things a few hundred yards away with it...because lumens along don't tell you where the light goes.

A large reflector can help to focuse those lumens, so the form an nice line, and all march out of the light in the same direction...and the larger and better shaped that reflector is...the fewer of those guys march off in other directions....and the more of them that end up at your target.

If you can't have a big 'ol reflector....the next step is to take adavantage of an LED NOT emitting light in a shere, its directional...so if you take off the glass dome of the LED, and maximize the amount of that directional emission...you can get those guys marching in a pretty damn straight line from the get go, and not need a giant reflector bowl to do it.

300$ for a light?!!?!? Alllriighhhttt that's what I'm talkin about. I've been reading about Dereelight brand. They seem to offer really cheap lights but the terminology has me at a slight disadvantage. If you were to compare your ideal Dereelight thrower vs the DEFT edc LR+ how would they stack up? Also I'm noticing the LR+ is almost 300$ where the dereelight is 100$. Are you really getting 3x your value?
Thanks for that great post. It really pushed me in the direction I was looking at going.

awenta · Mar 16, 2012

Your not giving up too much but the DEFT is made by one of our own and the QC is uncomparable to a mass produced Chinese light, or any other one for that matter. Saa has one of the most epic posts on the forum of what it takes to build one. It's in a thread comparing these exact two lights.

The EDC LR is a god like thrower, it does better than most lights that are much bigger. DEFT all the way, you won't be disappointed.

Digital · Mar 16, 2012

awenta said:
Your not giving up too much but the DEFT is made by one of our own and the QC is uncomparable to a mass produced Chinese light, or any other one for that matter. Saa has one of the most epic posts on the forum of what it takes to build one. It's in a thread comparing these exact two lights.

The EDC LR is a god like thrower, it does better than most lights that are much bigger. DEFT all the way, you won't be disappointed.

I'll look for that thread. Was there any "max throw" beam shots of the two by chance? or any threads you can recall that I could see them?

awenta · Mar 16, 2012

Digital said:
I'll look for that thread. Was there any "max throw" beam shots of the two by chance? or any threads you can recall that I could see them?

If you don't find it, I will dig it up when I get home later. There are beamshots available. You can probably find them by searching.

With your naked eye you cant see as far as these throw. The LR (light recycling) is about 50% brighter as well.

TEEJ · Mar 16, 2012

I'm not sure the Deerelight is $100 by the time you get all the options that make it max out...or how long it runs at the max output, etc....When I tried to go through the options, it looked like the aspheric head alone was a substantial cost, so when you add it all up...its like buying a Hyundai...the list price is $10k for the car, but by the time you get the steering wheel, AC, a spare tire, auto tranny and CD player, its $20k.

The DEFT edc LR is at least a pocket sized EDC light...as in you can carry it every day in your pocket, its weapon mountable/makes a great long range target light, and it comes with a diffuser that allows you to use it on closer range work, etc, as well. The DEFT edc LR is $239, the new DEFT edc LR + is $300+ though...but its got ~ double the Lux measurement. :naughty:

The Deerelight is not really a pocket light, its no SR90, but its not really likely to be in your pocket either...and making it larger can of course provide some advantages as far as total throw potential, as the head can be larger, etc...but if you want a SMALL thrower, well, its how small is small, to you.

Kokopelli · Mar 16, 2012

I have a FandyFire STL-V2 or was it V6. Don't mind the numbers, it has a 60mm diameter reflector that throws very well with an XML emitter. This is a double 18650 cell body so not something you'd call small. But there is a Trustfire X9 that has the same reflector size but uses single cell. It isn't the shortest either but I guess it would easily throw as well as my FandyFire. But please mind these are xxxFire lights and might not meet all of your quality aspects. Trustfires have always been a bit better in the budget range, though.

There is also Solarforce Masterpiece Pro 1 head with XRE and M8 with XML that can be shortened to 2xCR123 if wanted.

TEEJ · Mar 16, 2012

Kokopelli said:
I have a FandyFire STL-V2 or was it V6. Don't mind the numbers, it has a 60mm diameter reflector that throws very well with an XML emitter. This is a double 18650 cell body so not something you'd call small. But there is a Trustfire X9 that has the same reflector size but uses single cell. It isn't the shortest either but I guess it would easily throw as well as my FandyFire. But please mind these are xxxFire lights and might not meet all of your quality aspects. Trustfires have always been a bit better in the budget range, though.

There is also Solarforce Masterpiece Pro 1 head with XRE and M8 with XML that can be shortened to 2xCR123 if wanted.

The throw on these is not even in the same league as the DEFT, etc. I have them, and they can be souped up though if you take care of the heat dissipation and drivers and swap in different LEDS, etc...to get closer at least...but still not in the same league.

If the lights were in baseball, the DEFT and Deerelights would be in the Major Leagues, say on the Yankee's, etc.

The stock (But better) crapfires, etc, would be in single A, on a farm team, etc.

The heavily modified crapfires might make it to AA or AAA teams.

:devil:

Digital · Mar 16, 2012

TEEJ said:
The throw on these is not even in the same league as the DEFT, etc. I have them, and they can be souped up though if you take care of the heat dissipation and drivers and swap in different LEDS, etc...to get closer at least...but still not in the same league.

If the lights were in baseball, the DEFT and Deerelights would be in the Major Leagues, say on the Yankee's, etc.

The stock (But better) crapfires, etc, would be in single A, on a farm team, etc.

The heavily modified crapfires might make it to AA or AAA teams.

:devil:

You did a good job selling me. I purchased the final DEFT-EDC LR+.

TEEJ · Mar 16, 2012

Sweet.

Now I wish I got commissions or something.

gcbryan · Mar 16, 2012

Digital said:
You did a good job selling me. I purchased the final DEFT-EDC LR+.

What is the lux reading and price of that one if you don't mind my asking?

TEEJ · Mar 16, 2012

gcbryan said:
What is the lux reading and price of that one if you don't mind my asking?

For the DEFT edc LR+

I believe the Lux is ~ 72,000 from a ~ 1" head.

They are $278 right now, and will go up to $349 after the intro sale.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?335037-DEFT-edc-LR-72K-cd!!

I have the DEFT edc LR, which puts out more like 60,000 lux at 1 meter from the same sized head (Its a pocket sized EDC light...not a giant TK70 clone, etc).

This is a shot of the LR at ~ 233 meters, well within its range....the camera sucks at low light pics (And/Or I do) - so what looks unclear was razer sharp and easily resolved by eye...the tint is good for color rendition, and I could easily see detail inside the pool of light at that range with the DEFT edc LR. (~ 12,000 lux LESS than the + version)

For comparison, this is the Jetbeam RRT-3 XML (1,950 lumens) shooting at the same range.

The RRT-3 reaches, but as a flood, covering a lot more surface area...but, not as brightly as the DEFT's smaller patch.

If I were to move the target about another 100 meters out, the RRT-3 would be ~ out of gas, and there's be a faint trace of light at best...but the projected patch from the DEFT would look about the same, but a little larger than it did at 233 meters...the 'lil MoFo can THROW.

awenta · Mar 16, 2012

TEEJ said:
Sweet.

Now I wish I got commissions or something.

Must share :nana:

Oh and by the way, THIS http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?333264-Dereelight-DBS-aspherical-vs-DEFT

Digital · Mar 17, 2012

TEEJ said:
For the DEFT edc LR+

I believe the Lux is ~ 72,000 from a ~ 1" head.

They are $278 right now, and will go up to $349 after the intro sale.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?335037-DEFT-edc-LR-72K-cd!!

My impression was that they weren't making the light anymore and the 349$ one you mentioned was going to be a limited run of like 3 lights or something that were going to be SLIGHTLY more powerful and have custom engraving and tooling. That's why I mentioned I purchased the -last- one.

gcbryan · Mar 17, 2012

Thanks for the numbers. I have a SmallSun by the way that puts out 50k cd using a 1 3/4" head for $14. 72k cd from a 1" head is impressive no doubt.

TEEJ · Mar 17, 2012

gcbryan said:
Thanks for the numbers. I have a SmallSun by the way that puts out 50k cd using a 1 3/4" head for $14. 72k cd from a 1" head is impressive no doubt.

Yeah, I have that too, for a while, then they fall apart. I use them for work, so they need to be real tools, not bright toys.

I do experiment though, its like buying penny stocks...you never know if one will amount to something untill you give it a try.

LEDninja · Mar 17, 2012

:welcome:

Beamshots of the Dereelight Aspheric here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...BS-T-XR-E-R2-EZ900-Aspheric-First-Impressions

-

BTW do not use lumens when looking for throw. Both lights are 180 lumens.

The one with the bright tight hotspot is a $25 Dorcy.

TEEJ · Mar 17, 2012

Digital said:
My impression was that they weren't making the light anymore and the 349$ one you mentioned was going to be a limited run of like 3 lights or something that were going to be SLIGHTLY more powerful and have custom engraving and tooling. That's why I mentioned I purchased the -last- one.

He's going to offer an upgrade to us LR owners to convert them to the LR+

:devil:

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