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Thread: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / NICHIA 92CRI (part 10)

  1. #61

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by zilingz View Post
    Is that means 30% more light compared to 1.4A?
    And is there some restrictions in running time?
    HI

    i make no claims but simply furnish what members are looking for, I myself doubt you will get 30% more light but you may but as the die heats up it will drop. At 1.4 amps you are 40% over specs and at 1.7 amps you are 70% over specs and once you push them so far you start to get into diminishing returns. It really depends on how well your hosts cools the pill but one thing is for sure you WILL get 30% less runtime. It is something you will have to balance, I have not measured a 1.7 amps so I really don't have a lumen count.

    Dave

  2. #62

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Hi,

    I just bought a bored (18650) C2 host. My knowledge on drop-ins is pretty limited, and it seems that the guy above me a few posts ordered what is probably the best lumen/throw setup, correct?

    led = XML U2 flux bin 1C 6500k+ Cool White
    driver = 2.8-6 volt regulated; 3 mode (High, Med, Low) with memory; 2.8 amps
    reflector = Smooth
    Additional $5 for potting and tape
    Total $40 + $5 = $45
    Will be run in a bored Surefire C2 with 1X18650 or 2XCR123A primaries

    I will also be using either 1X18650 or 2XCR123A primaries, does it matter which? I also have no idea what 2.8-6 volt regulated, 2.8 amps is refering too haha, and if that's also what I want. I is newb. What is the tape and potting for?

    Thanks, and again sorry for the very basic questions on stuff I should probably already know.
    Hi

    Well the specs you have listed would be a good module for you. As for not knowing some of the specs well you need to at least learn about the battery config or as many have you can burn up a good module. Alot of questions can be answered by reading some threads and others can be answered by using the search function of the forum as there is a WEALTH of knowledge on the forum.

    2.8-6 volts means that is the operating range so you can use either a 1X18650 which is 4.2 volts or 2XCR123 primaries since they are 6 volts.

    As for the potting and tape that was answered just a few posts before this one on post #55 here is how I answered

    As I posted on the first page of this thread potting is the filling of the electronics cavity of the brass pill with thermal epoxy. This helps with thermal management and shock, the copper tape can be used to shim reflector to fit the host snugly especially in solarforce products. It should not be so tight as to force it in just slightly snug to help pass heat to the host.

    Hope that helped

    Dave

  3. #63

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Dave,

    I have been doing a lot of reading and have heard your modules come highly recommended, so I decided to settle in for one of your modules, since you can make these to tailor to my needs.

    Basically, I am looking for a module that will give me a good hot spot with decent flood as well, as this is going to replace the original P60 module on my Surefire 6P (the 65 lumen one too).

    This is what I think would work for that:
    Cree XP-G
    1 level 2.8-6 volts
    R4 4000k 5B3 tint /5B2 neutral white
    Potted

    I picked the potted option as this will be going on my AR-15 as a weapon light (the 6P is already on there, and the P60 module has been awesome so far)

    However, before I make this my final order, I'd like to make sure that what I picked will meet my criteria:

    1) The 1 level brightness driver is regulated, correct? I do not want a direct drive module
    2) I'd like to get at least 2 hours run time out of this setup
    3) Will this setup get me around or over 200 lumens output with 2 CR132A primaries?

    Also, I think an orange peel reflector to go with this setup would give me more of what I want, instead of a smooth reflector, yes?

    Thanks!

  4. #64

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    Hi

    Well the specs you have listed would be a good module for you. As for not knowing some of the specs well you need to at least learn about the battery config or as many have you can burn up a good module. Alot of questions can be answered by reading some threads and others can be answered by using the search function of the forum as there is a WEALTH of knowledge on the forum.

    2.8-6 volts means that is the operating range so you can use either a 1X18650 which is 4.2 volts or 2XCR123 primaries since they are 6 volts.

    As for the potting and tape that was answered just a few posts before this one on post #55 here is how I answered

    As I posted on the first page of this thread potting is the filling of the electronics cavity of the brass pill with thermal epoxy. This helps with thermal management and shock, the copper tape can be used to shim reflector to fit the host snugly especially in solarforce products. It should not be so tight as to force it in just slightly snug to help pass heat to the host.

    Hope that helped

    Dave
    Thanks. So when someone says 2.8-6 volts, and after they specify 2.8, 3.1 amps ect..where exactly does that come in to play? I will most likely be using 1x18650 while occasionally using 2 x 123 primaries...

    Also, is the U2 XML the brightest available? Around 600 OTF lumens?

    Additionally, when you say about 1 hour of runtime is expected from this setup, will the lumens drop off exponentially, or stay around 600 for awhile, then drop off?

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by jalcon; 04-09-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Dave,

    I have been doing a lot of reading and have heard your modules come highly recommended, so I decided to settle in for one of your modules, since you can make these to tailor to my needs.

    Basically, I am looking for a module that will give me a good hot spot with decent flood as well, as this is going to replace the original P60 module on my Surefire 6P (the 65 lumen one too).

    This is what I think would work for that:
    Cree XP-G
    1 level 2.8-6 volts
    R4 4000k 5B3 tint /5B2 neutral white
    Potted

    I picked the potted option as this will be going on my AR-15 as a weapon light (the 6P is already on there, and the P60 module has been awesome so far)

    However, before I make this my final order, I'd like to make sure that what I picked will meet my criteria:

    1) The 1 level brightness driver is regulated, correct? I do not want a direct drive module
    2) I'd like to get at least 2 hours run time out of this setup
    3) Will this setup get me around or over 200 lumens output with 2 CR132A primaries?

    Also, I think an orange peel reflector to go with this setup would give me more of what I want, instead of a smooth reflector, yes?

    Thanks!
    Hi

    The setup is fine for what you want but if powered with my stock driver you would get about 300 lumens but I am not sure you would get 2 hours on high. My drivers are 1.4 amps and I am not sure what the mah rating on your batts are but if 1500 then only about an hour.
    I can cut the amperage down to one amp but that means less output yet still around 200 that would give about an hour and a half. All my XPG modules are regulated.

    Dave

  6. #66

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Thanks. So when someone says 2.8-6 volts, and after they specify 2.8, 3.1 amps ect..where exactly does that come in to play? I will most likely be using 1x18650 while occasionally using 2 x 123 primaries...

    Also, is the U2 XML the brightest available? Around 600 OTF lumens?

    Additionally, when you say about 1 hour of runtime is expected from this setup, will the lumens drop off exponentially, or stay around 600 for awhile, then drop off?

    Thanks again!
    HI

    The U2 is the brightest at this time and is closer to 700 lumens. If you want an hour runtime then I would choose the 2.8 amps version, the 3.1 amp while modestly brighter will decrease runtime. The higher the amperage the less runtime, now when you say an hour with a XML that is with at least a 2800mah 18650 becuase you wont' get an hour on 2 primaries.

    The XML modules are also regulated and will start to flash slowly for low discharge protection, they will stay fairly consistent in brightness as only direct drives fall off noticeably ss batts discharge.

    Dave

  7. #67

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    Hi

    The setup is fine for what you want but if powered with my stock driver you would get about 300 lumens but I am not sure you would get 2 hours on high. My drivers are 1.4 amps and I am not sure what the mah rating on your batts are but if 1500 then only about an hour.
    I can cut the amperage down to one amp but that means less output yet still around 200 that would give about an hour and a half. All my XPG modules are regulated.

    Dave
    Dave,

    I'm looking for a drop-in that will give me around 2 hours run time and definitely over 200 lumens.

    I'm just curious as to how the Malkoff M61 can claim 260 lumens and 2 hours while you're saying around 200 lumens and and hour and a half. I'm not bashing, and so far, search has not yielded any meaningful results for me.

    Batteries I'm going to be using are the Surefire 123A primaries. I don't know how many mAh they are.

  8. #68

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Dave,

    I'm looking for a drop-in that will give me around 2 hours run time and definitely over 200 lumens.

    I'm just curious as to how the Malkoff M61 can claim 260 lumens and 2 hours while you're saying around 200 lumens and and hour and a half. I'm not bashing, and so far, search has not yielded any meaningful results for me.

    Batteries I'm going to be using are the Surefire 123A primaries. I don't know how many mAh they are.
    HI

    LOL if a Malkoff serves you better I can tell you they are excellent drop ins!. I do not keep runtimes since EVREY host and brand is has different resistance and every switch has different resistance and they can make quite a bit of difference so I don't keep runtimes since condition of batts , type of batts and numerous other things can influence the results considerably.

    You did not tell me if his was coolwhite or neutral as that can make up to 50 lumens difference nor did you tell me what amperage it runs at and since I never try to compete with other vendors,all I can do is build the best module I can build.
    Since I have never kept runtimes I should just keep my opinions on runtime to myself since the best I can do is what everyone can do which is divide the amperage into the mah of the batteries and you will be close to the runtime minus any added resistance that the host may have over another host. I do know that amperage and mah of the battery is what determines the runtime so that is the best I can do.

    As for the 200 figure that is strictly a guess since I seldom get requests to cut amperage down instead most of my requests want the most light they can get so those are the figures I have, I know that a S2 coolwhite running at 1.4 amps is about 370 lumens and a R4 neutral running at 1.4 amps is around 300 to 310 lumens so at 1 amp or around 30% less makes my guess is 200 may be 220 since I don't have measurements for amperage's I seldom use.

    Wish I could help more

    Dave

  9. #69

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    Hi
    Yes your numbers are right, this batch of drivers are actually 100% / 30% / 5 % which will put you just about right on your measurements. There will be slight differences between batches of drivers so I would say yours are right.

    Dave
    Dave,

    Just curious if the two drop-ins I ordered from you are 100% / 40% / 5 % or 100% / 30% / 5 % ?

    The specs were: led = XML U2 flux bin 1C 6500k+ Cool White
    driver = 2.8-6 volt regulated; 3 mode (High, Med, Low) with memory; 2.8 amps

    Thanks.

  10. #70

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Hi

    I am not sure which batch yours are from but probably 100 / 30 / 5, I really don't discern from batch to batch and 10% is a nominal difference but i would think yours is 30%.

    Dave

  11. #71

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    HI

    LOL if a Malkoff serves you better I can tell you they are excellent drop ins!. I do not keep runtimes since EVREY host and brand is has different resistance and every switch has different resistance and they can make quite a bit of difference so I don't keep runtimes since condition of batts , type of batts and numerous other things can influence the results considerably.

    You did not tell me if his was coolwhite or neutral as that can make up to 50 lumens difference nor did you tell me what amperage it runs at and since I never try to compete with other vendors,all I can do is build the best module I can build.
    Since I have never kept runtimes I should just keep my opinions on runtime to myself since the best I can do is what everyone can do which is divide the amperage into the mah of the batteries and you will be close to the runtime minus any added resistance that the host may have over another host. I do know that amperage and mah of the battery is what determines the runtime so that is the best I can do.

    As for the 200 figure that is strictly a guess since I seldom get requests to cut amperage down instead most of my requests want the most light they can get so those are the figures I have, I know that a S2 coolwhite running at 1.4 amps is about 370 lumens and a R4 neutral running at 1.4 amps is around 300 to 310 lumens so at 1 amp or around 30% less makes my guess is 200 may be 220 since I don't have measurements for amperage's I seldom use.

    Wish I could help more

    Dave
    Dave,

    Actually, you did help a lot. I did a bit more reading, and I think I'm going to go with the XP-G in the S2 flux 1T cool white tint. If you can drive that bad boy at 1 amp, then I think we'd be right around where I need to be. And I'll need this potted.

    Think you could do that?

  12. #72

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Dave,

    Actually, you did help a lot. I did a bit more reading, and I think I'm going to go with the XP-G in the S2 flux 1T cool white tint. If you can drive that bad boy at 1 amp, then I think we'd be right around where I need to be. And I'll need this potted.

    Think you could do that?
    Hi

    No problem at all. Just put in the paypal notes 1 amp S2 XPG that is potted and I can fix that up no problem.

    Dave

  13. #73

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Hello!

    I would like to order this drop in:

    Cree XM-L $40

    U2 flux bin 1C 6500k+ Cool White

    1 level Regulated 2.8-6 volts at 2.8 amps

    Smooth reflector for maximum throw

    with Potting $5
    with International shipping $5

    Total: 50$

    Thanks!

  14. #74

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    Hi

    No problem at all. Just put in the paypal notes 1 amp S2 XPG that is potted and I can fix that up no problem.

    Dave
    Just before I order, would you recommend the smooth reflector or the orange peel reflector? I want a good hot spot but decent spill too for maximum coverage, like the pattern on the regular Surefire P60 module.

  15. #75

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Just before I order, would you recommend the smooth reflector or the orange peel reflector? I want a good hot spot but decent spill too for maximum coverage, like the pattern on the regular Surefire P60 module.

    Hi

    While a smooth will give more throw it also with XPG's leaves some concentric rings in the beam, I would imagine a Lop will give you the performance you are looking for.

    Dave

  16. #76
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    Hi

    Yes your numbers are right, this batch of drivers are actually 100% / 30% / 5 % which will put you just about right on your measurements. There will be slight differences between batches of drivers so I would say yours are right.

    Now you can use that chart on BLF for a guide but you will have trouble getting those lumens in a module, look at the heat sink he is using plus a 20mm pad. With the kind of heat sink he is using he will add quite a few lumens since most of our lumen loss is lack of heat sinking in a P60 and this will occur NO MATTER what I or any of us do as far as filling of pill. It is a good guide but yours will not do quite that good becuase of heat sinking.

    Dave
    thanks dave .

  17. #77

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Ok, so I'm going to order this:

    Cree XP-G - $35
    1 level 2.8-6 volts @ 1 amp
    S2 6300k - 1T tints
    Orange peel reflector
    Potted with copper tape - $5


    Shipping - $5


    Total - $45

    I will look up your Paypal info via your profile.

  18. #78

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Ok, so I'm going to order this:

    Cree XP-G - $35
    1 level 2.8-6 volts @ 1 amp
    S2 6300k - 1T tints
    Orange peel reflector
    Potted with copper tape - $5


    Shipping - $5


    Total - $45

    I will look up your Paypal info via your profile.
    hi

    Unless you are looking for priority mail your shipping is included. i will refund your $5 for shipping

    Thanks

    Dave

  19. #79

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    hi

    Unless you are looking for priority mail your shipping is included. i will refund your $5 for shipping

    Thanks

    Dave
    Oh snap, I didn't notice.

    Thanks Dave!

  20. #80
    Flashaholic dandruff's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Hi Dave received my T6 XML and its awesome! It will travel with me across many islands in South-East Asia in the coming months

    Oh and I misread some of the pricing and overpaid you by $5 but don't worry about it for now. I'll have to satiate my lumens-craving and get another p60 again at some point sooner or later

  21. #81

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by dandruff View Post
    Hi Dave received my T6 XML and its awesome! It will travel with me across many islands in South-East Asia in the coming months

    Oh and I misread some of the pricing and overpaid you by $5 but don't worry about it for now. I'll have to satiate my lumens-craving and get another p60 again at some point sooner or later

    Hi

    I have returned your $5

    Dave

  22. #82

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Changed the driver from 1.7 to 1.4 amps based on the discussion in this topic, but I sent you some money. Thanks!
    Let there be light!

  23. #83

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by SoSideways View Post
    Dave,

    Actually, you did help a lot. I did a bit more reading, and I think I'm going to go with the XP-G in the S2 flux 1T cool white tint. If you can drive that bad boy at 1 amp, then I think we'd be right around where I need to be. And I'll need this potted.

    Think you could do that?
    I'm probably too late but if you used a Panasonic 3100 mAH 18650 you could get 2 hrs at 1.4 Amps as long as your host resistance isn't too bad. Then you'd have more lumens, too. You will need a backup light, right

  24. #84
    Flashaholic guardpost3's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    PM Sent

  25. #85
    Moderator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbender View Post
    OK Will Quiles has made some Very Low Voltage Drivers, these are for draining every last drop of voltage from old alkaline or NIMH batts. They will work up to 3 volts so you can use a 1XCR123 primary. You can read about it in his thread HERE at Will's Joule Thief thread , I have had many requests for so called vampire modules that would do just this run for long periods of time and drain every drop of juice left in the batts. Now these are not super duper bright lights but are certainly bright enough to walk around with and use in many other tasks. They make good emergency lights and everyone has old remote batts and toy batts.

    I have tested these with a 3C daylight white XPG and a 3C XML and what I have found is that the XPG and XML are about the same brightness when running with a new 1XCR123 primary, the XPG will have a slightly better hotspot and the XML slightly more floody but basically the same brightness. I would say at 3 volts the brightness is slightly brighter than the LOW level on one of my stock XPG modules.

    I also tested at 1.5 volts and the XPG was brighter than the XML but both could be used in a emergency lighting situation. I believe the reason the XPG is brighter is that the VF of the XPG is lower.
    Hello Dave, thanks for making this possible - I will definitely be doing this. I was thinking of going with the XM-L because of the generally-accepted belief that it had the lower Vf. At the relatively low currents in this particular situation (i.e. considerably below spec), you're stating that it's the XP-G that actually has a lower Vf? I understand that Vf changes with drive currents but I didn't know that the XP-G overtakes it in this situation, that's very interesting. Thanks very much for this comparison.
    Last edited by Kestrel; 04-12-2012 at 09:24 AM.
    In the past we have had a light which flickered, in the present we have a light which flames, and in the future there will be a light which shines over all the land and sea.
    - Winston Churchill

  26. #86

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Hello Dave, thanks for making this possible - I will definitely be doing this. I was thinking of going with the XM-L because of the generally-accepted belief that it had the lower Vf. At the relatively low currents in this particular situation (i.e. considerably below spec), you're stating that it's the XP-G that actually has a lower Vf? I understand that Vf changes with drive currents but I didn't know that the XP-G overtakes it in this situation, that's very interesting. Thanks very much for this comparison.

    Hi

    Actually they are both rated at about the same except for your newer U2's that are 3.6 volts for a VF @3 amps.
    Both the XPG and the XML are 2.9 volts VF at 350ma but I can tell you that a XPG is brighter than a XML at 1.5 volts where as they are about the same brightness at 3 volts. It may be that it is simply a larger surface area on the XML and needs more to light it. Since I am not a EE I have to stick to visual cues and as I said at 1.5 volts the XPG is brighter but at 3 volts they are close. I think if simply may be the larger surface area of the XML takes more juice to get the same result.

    Dave

  27. #87

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Paypal sent for one Battery Vampire P60 drop in. I have just placed an order from wquiles for one of his Joule Thief boards to be delivered directly to you.I would like the XP-G (R4 4000k 5B3 tint /5B2) , LOP reflector and potted electronics.

    Thanks!

    BJ

  28. #88

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Hi
    Here is a update on Wills Joule thief drivers.

    I built up a red XPE with the Joule Thief driver and was impressed at how bright it was at 3votls and also how bright it was at 1.5 volts. One could easily see surroundings to walk or other activities.

    I also did some lumen tests for a neutral white XPG and at 3 volts it was about 4 lumens while at 1.5 volts it is about 1.5 lumens.

    Thanks

    Dave

  29. #89
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    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Hi Dave, I am going to go ahead and pp you for an IR p60 module. After that PM, I think I'll just go ahead with the 850nm one for now.

    PP Sent for:
    1 X Osram Platinum Dragon 850nm IR
    OP reflector
    3 mode - Low-Med-High (Low-mode default turn-on if possible)
    Potted (+$5)
    Regular shipping

    $45 + $5 = $50 tot
    Thanks in advance and have a great day.
    -Pete

  30. #90

    Default Re: P60 modules -warm, neutral, cool white/XRE-XPE-XPG-S2-XML-U2 / P60 modules (part

    Quote Originally Posted by sb_pete View Post
    Hi Dave, I am going to go ahead and pp you for an IR p60 module. After that PM, I think I'll just go ahead with the 850nm one for now.

    PP Sent for:
    1 X Osram Platinum Dragon 850nm IR
    OP reflector
    3 mode - Low-Med-High (Low-mode default turn-on if possible)
    Potted (+$5)
    Regular shipping

    $45 + $5 = $50 tot
    Thanks in advance and have a great day.
    -Pete
    Hi Pete

    I am sorry I think I am getting senile, I did look and do not have a 940nm in stock but forgot to PM you back again I am sorry.

    You asked about the amount seen, it is of course far less than a cigarette, it is visible but it would take someone with some darn good optics to see it from more than a few yards or a set of NVG's.

    If you think it is too much once you receive it let me know as you will be not far from where I am and I can get you something else in a couple of days.

    This should ship on Monday.

    Dave

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