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Thread: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

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    Default Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    I would like to find a flashlight that in a pinch could be used to blind and disorient a potential bad guy while I get away. Any rec for a serious thrower with strobe, that may even double as a blunt force instrument as a last resort? Size isn't a big issue.

    I know, flashlights arent a self defense tool, just want to see what can be done with current tech. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* buds224's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    I like my Klarus XT11. The UI Allows for instant strobe. Max output is 600 lumens.

    ***might be too small to be used as a blunt object though.

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    Buttrock Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    A foursevens S18 would blind the crap out of an assailant, and, you could easily use its mass combined with acceleration to dislodge their upper skeletal mass, etc.

    If swinging it like a war club was not what you had in mind, the Klarus XT11 has one of the best combos of lumen output and UI for this purpose.


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    Flashaholic* buds224's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    OH, just remembered the "Torch" from wicked lasers. I don't own one, but it's got some output; enough to start a fire?

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    In an urban setting with street lights, the XT11 has a nice strobe but it's more of an annoying "wtf are you flashing me for" kind of power.

    To physically force someone to yield you'll need a wall of light something in the 2,000+ lumen range.

    The JetBeam RRT-3 comes to mind. 1,950 lumens. Decent sized. Looks good.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by ledmitter View Post
    In an urban setting with street lights, the XT11 has a nice strobe but it's more of an annoying "wtf are you flashing me for" kind of power.

    To physically force someone to yield you'll need a wall of light something in the 2,000+ lumen range.

    The JetBeam RRT-3 comes to mind. 1,950 lumens. Decent sized. Looks good.

    eh...the RRT-3 would also work as a baton too, so its sure an option akin to the S18...but 600 lumens is a lot to strobe with (enough)

    I like the RRT-3 in that scenario though...1950 is even better than 600 L.



    The advantage of the Klarus over that S18 and RRT 3 is the one button hit to get the strobe on....vs the twist of the control rings on the other two...The XT11's UI is more suited to hitting the strobe...but really, an XT11 might be ok in your fist like a roll of quarters type weapon, or to "poke a DNA sample", but - baton-wise, I wouldn't bother. SO the XT11 hits the strobe better, and the RRT and S18 hit the perp better.





    For the record - if considering a strobe -

    ALL strobes are "WTF....", that's essentially ALL they do, no matter how many lumens...even 200 lumens can work on a night adjusted perp, etc....stobes are not tasers...ALL they do is make the perp hesitate, which gives you the chance to capitalize. Its just a flashing light...the lights going on/off rapidly confuse a person who is not EXPECTING it...and makes them hesitate. Some are more disorienting than others...the more regular the flashes for example, the faster a person adjusts to it, etc.

    After a second or two (More for drunks, etc...) they get their bearings back, and can then start thinking about what to DO again. That means you have about a second to take control of the situation in whatever fashion makes sense in the context. People who are temporarily unsure of their options/what they are up against, are more likely to be overwhelmed by the swarming thoughts (The WTF part), and will be more likely to surrender rather than risk tangling with an unknown threat level. If you have a strobe, who knows what else you might have, etc....it LOOKS professional...maybe you are more dangerous than originally thought?

    While they are considering that - you are ordering them to the ground, and, generally, they comply...as YOU seem confident that they should, and they don't really know yet...so they comply.

    If you sit there doing a light show for one more second...they start to consider options..and you've lost the opportunity to direct them, they now have their OWN ideas, a different scenario (Hey, um, OK, there's a guy standing there with a light flashing at me...but that's it?...maybe I can rush him?" - etc)



    THAT'S all a strobe is for...buying you time to take control...it doesn't incapacitate an attacker, etc...it just makes them say "WTF...." etc....buying you time.

    If being attacked by an epileptic, people prone to cascade type migraines, etc...sure, the strobe might lay him out with a seizure, cause nausea/vomitting, etc...that does happen from time to time...but lets call that the exception.
    Last edited by TEEJ; 03-25-2012 at 04:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    ^^^ Good rationalization. I like.

    TEEJ, if you saw some average jeans wearing button up shirt civilian, say they where standing in line somewhere holding the Klarus XT11 and a phone (like they appear to be texting someone). Without asking them directly, would you have thought they where LEO in some capacity (like off duty or undercover)?

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Possibly, anytime someone is holding what appears to be a "non-off the shelf" item like that...it occurs to wonder if they themselves are "not off the shelf".

    Some of it is also based upon the way they are carrying themselves, apparent situational awareness/back to the wall/facing the wall, body language, are they wearing footwear that looks "Tactical", haircut style?, etc.

    Me and a buddy were relaxing at a big outdoor concert last year...and it was impossible to relax after we spotted blood/crips, esp my buddy who's strung tighter than I am...he could not STOP himself from constant scanning/positioning...even in shorts tee shirts and sneakers...the body language SCREAMED "I might be on duty".

    He says he was cool and collected, and no one would notice...and that I was over analyzing him....but I'm in forensics, I can't HELP it.
    Last edited by TEEJ; 03-25-2012 at 04:51 PM.

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    Flashaholic* Lou Minescence's Avatar
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    Default

    Fenix TK70. No person can take it at full power. It is also a large light. I shoulder strap carry mine.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Yeah TEEJ. Hope I don't look like i'm impersonating a police officer running around the subways with these things.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    LOL

    Somehow I can't see hitting someone with my TK70...I think the tube metal is too thin to not break my light...but, yeah, that's one powerful MoFo for strobing.




    I think if you don't SAY your LEO, or wear a misleading badge/uniform, etc...they won't bust you for impersonation. On a good day at least.


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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    TEEJ pretty much summed it up.
    I have used strobe to advance on Intoxicated persons and place them in custody. It gives you between 3-5 seconds with a VERY VERY drunk person. In normal situations I don't think strobe provides a large tactical advantage, but any advantage is better than no advantage.

    The XT-11 from Klarus is about as good as it gets when it comes to the interface. The guy who designed the switch better have gotten a pay raise and promotion.
    In god we trust.........all others are suspects
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Something that grabs your attention ie a bright take down light, flares, road blocks, reflectors, tapes, barriers. A strobe is in that same catagory. Its strictly to locate or be located. Whether to make your presence be known in an emergency or as an LEO, MP. Madecov and TEEJ are right on the money. The Klarus XT11 has the BEST Patented tactical User Interface of any TACTICAL LED LIGHT out on the market today. Even better than Olight's M series UI with the side switch. Your just not going to find a better User Interface accessing strobe on any other light. Klarus has the PATENT on the dual switch tail cap. And my DANG shipment has not come yet!

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by spc smith View Post
    Something that grabs your attention ie a bright take down light, flares, road blocks, reflectors, tapes, barriers. A strobe is in that same catagory. Its strictly to locate or be located. Whether to make your presence be known in an emergency or as an LEO, MP. Madecov and TEEJ are right on the money. The Klarus XT11 has the BEST Patented tactical User Interface of any TACTICAL LED LIGHT out on the market today. Even better than Olight's M series UI with the side switch. Your just not going to find a better User Interface accessing strobe on any other light. Klarus has the PATENT on the dual switch tail cap. And my DANG shipment has not come yet!
    Actually there is no patent for what you described above. Any one of these manufacturers can create a similar version.

    And I'm sure they will. And that's a GOOD thing.

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    Flashaholic* yifu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    For strobing you don't need lumens, you need lux. A Olight SR90 dedomed maybe? If you can't disorient someone with strobe, then it just means your light isn't bright enough. A XT11 is less then 10 000 lux so a SR90 dedomed at 20 times the lux would be much better. And it is big and heavy as well so it doubles up as a club!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    but the Olight SR90 is huge...of course it is not mentioned on the specific threat the required length of the flashlight so I would like to convert, if allowed, the title as follows:

    'Flashlight with some serious Lux, strobe and not longer than 150mm'

    any suggestions folks?

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    torva lupus,

    The idea behind that bright light or strobe is to take away an attacker's night adapted vision. Again, there are many admirable lights for this. XPG's are good for lux and still flood. What you need to do is take a flashlight, turn it on and see what effect it is on your eyes straight on and at a glance. I can tell you, that if you were to have an aspheric lense you would do the most damage all at once with that much focused light. But on the converse if you were not to directly aim that focused light right in the attackers eyes as they came up, it would do you no good because of the narrowed beam. Yes, you would have lux eye searing power. No you would not have enough peripheral light even at the side to disorient the attackers vision or maybe not at all take one smidgen of his night adapted vision away, if he were not directly inline of that beam. With the XPG, you are getting more lux (focused hotspot) with still adequate spill. But, the XML you are getting increased energy of light in spill and and the hotspot. Think of it like this, would you rather have a shotgun (XML) or pistol (XPG) in a close quarter shootout. Even at a glance the shotgun will spread making you hit the target at slight distance, much like the XML larger LED emmiter with less focused light energy at the spot but more overall light throughout the beam to intensify the effects.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    A foursevens S18 would blind the crap out of an assailant, and, you could easily use its mass combined with acceleration to dislodge their upper skeletal mass, etc.

    If swinging it like a war club was not what you had in mind, the Klarus XT11 has one of the best combos of lumen output and UI for this purpose.

    How about an XM18

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    Enlightened trevordurden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by awenta View Post
    How about an XM18
    Are you trying to disorient a single attacker or your local militia?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    In darkness, looking into an emitter producing anything beyond 200 lumens is going to instantaneously destroy one's low light vision.

    Still, I EDC a TN11. It's the brightest 2xCR123A medium-sized production tactical light currently available, at 750 ANSI lumens, and it's capable of projecting a massive hot spot well past 250 meters and is bright enough to blind people even when their eyes are closed.

    As someone said; "That thing's like... The Sun."

    The length is slightly longer than what you specified, coming in at 153mm. If you can live with that extra 3mm, you will end up with the most powerful light in its category. It also happens to throw better than other medium tactical lights with XR-E, XP-E and XP-G, at nearly 20,000 lux. The closest competitor is the EagleTac G25C2, which does around 15,100 lux and has output of 640 ANSI lumens.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Hence the TN11 utilizes the harder driven XML emmiter. +1 to that specific light.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Ever hit somebody with a strobe on a high powered light in the dark? Besides affecting the other guy, it's going to take you a second also to adjust to that sudden bright light as well, especially if your eyes have already been adjusted to the darkness for a little while.

    IMO, using a solid beam of very bright light would be better to subdue somebody, more so than a strobe. Plus, you'll be able to keep a constant view on the person instead of watching them move/dance around that strobe as if they're in a club. Even watch somebody move with a strobe light on them? It's almost like you're playing catch up to them.

    But that's my personal opinion, as I've seen this topic go both ways many of times.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by trevordurden View Post
    Are you trying to disorient a single attacker or your local militia?
    The local and not so local militia.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    TEEJ, good post. I've used the strobe on my Stinger LED to good effect on a subject struggling with a victim in the city. I strobed him, he was obviously disoriented for a second, and it at least caused him to release the woman and throw his hands to to eyes. Used that 2-second advantage to order him to the ground, and a nearby LEO heard the shouts and placed him in custody. The guy told the cop exactly what you said, he couldn't see me except for the strobe, and immediately figured I was someone he should be listening to.
    Current: Streamlight Strion LED, Stinger, PolyStinger DS LED, Stinger DS HP LED, Quark "X" 1232 Tactical.
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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by spc smith View Post
    Hence the TN11 utilizes the harder driven XML emmiter. +1 to that specific light.
    spcsmith you get your XT11 yet man?

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    ledmitter,

    Let me elaborate the story for you so far. I ordered this Klarus XT11 26 days ago, at which point I just now found out via a letter from the post master NCOIC, th host country address ie Qatar was listed as the default address (not APO) and ended up going to the qatari postal service. It's a minor mistake on goinggear's part, but a huge mistake sending my order right to qatari customs and not to my base postal service. Long story short and 25 days later, they finally decided to refund me after I was about to lose my mind from checking the mail everyday that takes 6 to 10 days at longest from the states on oversea shipment. Now a waiver is needed to claim the "tactical in nature flashlight" and I said **** it all together and ordered another one which is awaiting me at home. On top of that I spoke with andy who offered no apology after my 25 day inconvenience as a soldier. I NEEDED THAT LIGHT FOR DEEP IED PLACEMENT CAVITY CHECKS ON LARGER VEHICLES! When I called back in frustration, all andy did was refund the light without any follow up apology on the something that was originally thier fault. It was almost like he was rushing me off the phone after I waited as long as I did! Needless to say, I called back the next day and said I was indeed ready to cancel my second order of the second Klarus XT11 because of my previous customer service experience with andy not giving a damn and just rushing me off the phone with the refund.

    I will not end my findings there. Like I said I called the next day also with my formal complaint email and kyle came to my attention. He was very understanding and even offered to send something extra in leu of my inconvenience. I turned it down but he insisted and THAT'S RECTIFYING the situation. I didnt care about the Klarus XT11 as I was ready to send both the dang lights back because of andy's inability to see after 25 days later and on thier fault, frustrated about the whole situation. It was like a complete change when I was on the phone with kyle, very kind to listen and understand the situation I dealt with. Im not going to see the second order till a couple months down the road because of Qatari customs red flagged it as a tactical item. But I will ship that damn light off to goinggear and be done with it. Having good relations with the dealer is just important to me as the light itself. They sent me some colored diffusers, and all I wanted was an apology for a mistake one of the guys unfortunately made. Mistakes happen, but be apologetic after a mistake was made. I forgive X who made the mistake at goinggear=)... Sot that's the story so far. Goinggear is a solid company and just made a mistake. Nothing bad about that. But I'm not her4e to beat a dead horse more than it already is. I'm here to tell any first time deploying soldiers DO NOT PUT IN OR ALLOW THE COMPANY OF WHICH YOU ARE ORDERING FROM TO PUT IN THE HOST COUNTRIES ADDRESS!!! ie kuwait, afghanistan, Qatar.. This is what I got so far ledmitter. I'm just one guy with one experience.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by spc smith View Post
    ledmitter,

    Let me elaborate the story for you so far...
    Whoah man. Looks like a bit of miscommunication. Also the 1st guy being in a store might have had customers and was watching out for shoplifters. I would be understanding of the abruptness of the call, but at least they offered an immediate refund and gave freebies. They might never see that shipment back from Qatar.

    Keep us updated if you ever get your hands on one. Want your opinion of it from a soldier.

    Good luck to you over there.
    Last edited by ledmitter; 04-15-2012 at 07:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    They will see that shipment back. Ill make sure of it that it gets back to them I would not want them to lose a light they've refunded me on.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Quote Originally Posted by spc smith View Post
    They will see that shipment back. Ill make sure of it that it gets back to them I would not want them to lose a light they've refunded me on.
    What a coincidenceÖ I am in Qatar as well.
    I already got the Klarus XT11, they send it to my home country and then a friend of mine brought it here.
    Itís true they can get paranoid for nothing.
    I love the strobe mode, itís really strong and for sure can disoriented the attacker for few secs

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    Default Re: Flashlight with some serious lumen and strobe

    Torva-pious,

    I ordered and had my XT11 directly shipped from the company to ALL address. The order would have shipped right on time 6-12 days later if the host nations address was not entered, but its no big deal as my second order was right on time to my home address 2 days later going gear threw some freebies in also for my inconvenience. I bashed them pretty hard, which I wish I had not done. I would recommend them based off of my second shipment time

    SPC Smith

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