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Thread: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

  1. #121
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by NoixPecan View Post
    Is it not a cons? I mean, this thread is mostly about DIY.
    I thought it was a good alternative for people not wanting to play about building something around one of the boards discussed and for not many more $$.

    Norm

  2. #122

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I thought it was a good alternative for people not wanting to play about building something around one of the boards discussed and for not many more $$.

    Norm
    It does look good for the most compact utilitarian purpose for sure especially to just charge batteries instead of the more expensive chargers I've seen listed with their problems.
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  3. #123

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Got me 5 of these boards for $10 and change shipped, cool find Thanks ordered a DC/DC buck for $4.25 7to24V in 5V 3A out now just got to find the time to play

  4. #124

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Why is it not advisable to wire two these two 1A li ion charging board in parallel to get 2A charging current?

  5. #125
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisdidi View Post
    Why is it not advisable to wire two these two 1A li ion charging board in parallel to get 2A charging current?
    That's exactly what I've been doing for months with no issues...

  6. #126

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    That's exactly what I've been doing for months with no issues...
    Hi mvyrmnd,

    I currently making a 2a solar charger for 6 unprotected Sanyo 18650. Btw for your setup u use protected or unprotected cells? Appreciate your advise on this matter.

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Made up four of these and had to change my idea of building into a double 18650 battery holder ... My new 18700's won't fit in , so I am now using flying leads with magnets soldered on ... I charged up a couple of 18650's that I had discharged to 3.65V ... The temperature of the chip reached 62C ... It has now dropped to 55.5C and the voltage is 4.07V ... I will leave it another hour or so and see what the voltage goes up to.

    That chip does get warm though ... I wonder if it is designed to take that sort of temperature !
    .

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    Made up four of these and had to change my idea of building into a double 18650 battery holder ... My new 18700's won't fit in , so I am now using flying leads with magnets soldered on ... I charged up a couple of 18650's that I had discharged to 3.65V ... The temperature of the chip reached 62C ... It has now dropped to 55.5C and the voltage is 4.07V ... I will leave it another hour or so and see what the voltage goes up to.

    That chip does get warm though ... I wonder if it is designed to take that sort of temperature !
    .
    The blue LED is on when charging and the red comes on when charged ... Three chargers stop at 4.17 volts and one is 4.16V (when the Red LED comes on) ... The batteries used were one Ultrafire protected and two unprotected ... I've had these over two years and haven't checked the capacity ... They were OK when I first had them but now my Solarforce (on high) drops their voltage down to 3.6V or 3.7V in less than two hours ... It was about two and a half hours initially ...Good job I'm replacing them with Panasonic 3100's ... I will buy another couple next month and probably some more in a few months time ... I buy two at a time as that means the cost is less than the £15 UK import restriction.

    When I have more time to play with the chargers , I will leave them on a bit longer and also check the rested voltages ... The good thing about using magnets is that if I clip paper-clips on my DMM leads , the magnets hold the leads in place ... I just have to switch the meter on when I need to check the voltage.
    .

  9. #129
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    The blue LED is on when charging and the red comes on when charged ... Three chargers stop at 4.17 volts and one is 4.16V (when the Red LED comes on) ... The batteries used were one Ultrafire protected and two unprotected ... I've had these over two years and haven't checked the capacity ... They were OK when I first had them but now my Solarforce (on high) drops their voltage down to 3.6V or 3.7V in less than two hours ... It was about two and a half hours initially ...Good job I'm replacing them with Panasonic 3100's ... I will buy another couple next month and probably some more in a few months time ... I buy two at a time as that means the cost is less than the £15 UK import restriction.

    When I have more time to play with the chargers , I will leave them on a bit longer and also check the rested voltages ... The good thing about using magnets is that if I clip paper-clips on my DMM leads , the magnets hold the leads in place ... I just have to switch the meter on when I need to check the voltage.
    .
    Wow, mine are the other way around - red when charging and blue when finished

    One of mine terminates at 4.17 and the other at 4.20. Because they're in parallel The whole charge ends at 4.20, just the last bit takes a bit longer

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    Wow, mine are the other way around - red when charging and blue when finished

    One of mine terminates at 4.17 and the other at 4.20. Because they're in parallel The whole charge ends at 4.20, just the last bit takes a bit longer
    Initially I thought that the charger boards were not working as they were on red and nothing was happening ... The cell voltage (on charge) stayed the same if I took out the USB lead ... I used cells that were about 4.1 Volts at first and the red LED came on ... On my four boards , this means that the cells were already charged ... Your boards would have shown blue ... I will just have to remember that mine are blue when charging , then they go to "red for danger" to tell me to take them off ! ... I can't be bothered to send them back as they are OK other than the colour of the LED's.

    If mine terminate at 4.16V or 4.17V , it means that the cells are only about 95% charged ... This doesn't worry me as I will be buying 3100mAh (protected) Panasonics from now on ... I have two already plus a couple of new Xtar 2600mAh (Sanyo) cells ... The intention is to buy two more Panasonics next month then two more in a couple of months time ... They came recorded delivery quite quickly from the Far East ... At less than £15 for two including postage , I can justify the expenditure ... The old Ultrafire 2400mAh's will then be retired from service.

    I know that these chargers are not as pretty as a Pila , but if they work OK I will put off the evil day when (eventually) I have to (maybe) buy a Pila.
    .

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    I discharged a 18650 to 3.67V and put it on charge at 1845hrs ... By 1900hrs the chip temperature was 63C and the voltage was showing 3.93V on charge ... At 1915hrs the temp was 62C and the voltage was 3.96.

    I will keep a check on the temperature till it is charged ... It just seems a bit cruel to heat a chip up to that temperature.
    .

  12. #132

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    I discharged a 18650 to 3.67V and put it on charge at 1845hrs ... By 1900hrs the chip temperature was 63C and the voltage was showing 3.93V on charge ... At 1915hrs the temp was 62C and the voltage was 3.96.

    I will keep a check on the temperature till it is charged ... It just seems a bit cruel to heat a chip up to that temperature.
    .
    65C is fine, some voltage regulators are spec'd to run up to 105C and computer chips I've seen at 65C with forced cooling/heatsinking on them at the time.
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  13. #133
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    65C is fine, some voltage regulators are spec'd to run up to 105C and computer chips I've seen at 65C with forced cooling/heatsinking on them at the time.
    Thanks Lynx

    I have just completed a proper charge from an 18650 cell that was 3.67V ... The cell voltage gradually built up to 4.20V and at the same time the temperature slowly dropped from 63C ... This took two hours ... The cell voltage stayed at 4.20V for over half an hour and I left it for one more hour and the voltage dropped to 4.17V ... I took the cell off charge and one hour later it was still 4.17V ... This seems to me to be a proper CC/CV charger ... Great for the price.
    .

  14. #134
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    You're discovering what we learned earlier in the thread, Mr. Brown.

    These are good little devices and allow people to create flexible, custom chargers to suit their needs.

  15. #135
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    You're discovering what we learned earlier in the thread, Mr. Brown.

    These are good little devices and allow people to create flexible, custom chargers to suit their needs.
    I was a bit worried about the heat given off by the small chip ... At my age , as a boy , I was studying digital computers with those new-fangled transistors and diodes ... We had to build gates with discrete components , use pulse steering diodes etc ... Our new audio amplifiers had Mullard OC71's and OC72's ... The computer at English Electric (Kidsgrove) had thermionic valves and the computer covered several rooms ... The new (discrete-component solid state) computer created a major problem ... Because the office block was heated by the waste heat from the thermionic valves , a central-heating system had to be put in.

    Anyway , I am relieved to find out that these chips are capable of running hot ... Sorry if I repeated things that were mentioned earlier ... It's probably age-related ... Well , that's what my latest Wife says.

  16. #136
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    I was a bit worried about the heat given off by the small chip ... At my age , as a boy , I was studying digital computers with those new-fangled transistors and diodes ... We had to build gates with discrete components , use pulse steering diodes etc ... Our new audio amplifiers had Mullard OC71's and OC72's ... The computer at English Electric (Kidsgrove) had thermionic valves and the computer covered several rooms ... The new (discrete-component solid state) computer created a major problem ... Because the office block was heated by the waste heat from the thermionic valves , a central-heating system had to be put in.

    Anyway , I am relieved to find out that these chips are capable of running hot ... Sorry if I repeated things that were mentioned earlier ... It's probably age-related ... Well , that's what my latest Wife says.
    All good

    I noticed the heat too, when I first started using them.

    I had posted my "workaround" earlier, but the post was lost in the recent server crash.

    I use a 2A 5V "wall-wart" (OCV of nearly 6V, 5V under load) charger to run my two boards. When the batteries are very low, ie. sub 3.5V, the voltage differential is quite high, and that poor little chip has to shed a lot of heat. When this is the case, I charge from my iPad charger (2A still, but OCV of 5V and 4-and-a-bit volts under load) but the loaded voltage from the iPad charger is much lower, therefore a lower differential, therfore less heat. Once the batteries are half-charged, I go back to the wall-wart as it charges a bit more quickly from there.

  17. #137
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    All good

    I noticed the heat too, when I first started using them.

    I had posted my "workaround" earlier, but the post was lost in the recent server crash.

    I use a 2A 5V "wall-wart" (OCV of nearly 6V, 5V under load) charger to run my two boards. When the batteries are very low, ie. sub 3.5V, the voltage differential is quite high, and that poor little chip has to shed a lot of heat. When this is the case, I charge from my iPad charger (2A still, but OCV of 5V and 4-and-a-bit volts under load) but the loaded voltage from the iPad charger is much lower, therefore a lower differential, therfore less heat. Once the batteries are half-charged, I go back to the wall-wart as it charges a bit more quickly from there.
    The The 5 Volt , 4 Amp switch-mode PSU that I will be using has a trimmer to set the voltage accurately ... I'm going to power four USB sockets from this PSU and I might well trim the voltage down to a bit under 5 volts , it might save the chip from getting too warm ... Although I am going to connect four USB sockets to the PSU , I will probably only ever charge two cells at the same time ... It does seem though (from other posts) that these chips are capable of running hot ... Should we therefore just bury our heads in the sand and let the chips run hot for the first 90 minutes or so ?

    Am I letting my sympathy for the chip over-rule suggestions by other (more experienced) posters ?
    .


    As an old (in all senses of the word) electronics engineer , I still have some sympathy for little chips running at high temperatures ... Having been retired for over eighteen years , I am not up with the latest technology of integrated circuits ... If people tell me that these chips will withstand high temperatures , then who am I to argue with them !
    .

  18. #138
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    I think your setup would work better, with you trimming the voltage. I did read somewhere that the closer to 4.2V the input, the faster the charge.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    I think your setup would work better, with you trimming the voltage. I did read somewhere that the closer to 4.2V the input, the faster the charge.
    When my (two double) USB sockets arrive , I will wire them up to the PSU , put a couple of batteries on charge and have a tweak at the voltage adjustment ... It might take a while as the sockets are coming from the Far East ... The sockets are two on a white plastic fascia plate (like a double light switch) and I will be mounting two of these plates back-to-back to give me the four USB sockets ... Then there will be a short cable to the PSU ... Should look pretty and be functional as well ... It's just a matter of waiting for delivery now ... In the mean-time I will use the HTC one amp wall chargers.
    .

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    It does seem though (from other posts) that these chips are capable of running hot ... Should we therefore just bury our heads in the sand and let the chips run hot for the first 90 minutes or so ?
    Maybe add a heatsink under the PCB, just be careful with the isolation.

    Generally power components can handle up to about 150 degree's inside the component, but it reduces the lifetime and can be hard on the surroundings.
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  21. #141
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    Maybe add a heatsink under the PCB, just be careful with the isolation.

    Generally power components can handle up to about 150 degree's inside the component, but it reduces the lifetime and can be hard on the surroundings.
    The first full test on charger one showed a high temperature of 63C after 15 minutes but this was using a fairly thick 30cm USB lead ... Using one of those one metre extendable thin leads , the temperature on charger two was only 41.5C after half an hour using the same PSU and the cell voltage didn't build up very quickly.

    I then swopped the thin lead for the thick one and the temperature of the chip is on the way up as happened on charger one ... It seems that I will have to use the thicker lead in future ... After 15 minutes using the thick lead , the voltage is building up nicely (4.10V) and the temperature was 52.5C ... Another 15 minutes on and the Voltage was 4.13V but the temperature had dropped to 42.5C ... It seems that by putting the charger on the thin USB lead for the first half hour , reduced the maximum temperature by ten degrees ... I will let the charger complete the charge to make sure that the final voltage is within the 4.20 limit as on charger one.

    One problem is that these Ultrafire cells are fairly old ones and the results might be different on newer cells ... I will have a better idea of the charger performance when my two (more) new Panasonic 3100mAh arrive from the Far East in a couple of weeks
    .

  22. #142
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    I'm confident that the difference of 10c isn't worth the bother.

    Cheers Norm

  23. #143
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I'm confident that the difference of 10c isn't worth the bother.

    Cheers Norm
    Thanks Norm , I guess I will just monitor the temperature in case (?) ... Probably ignore the temperature of the chip unless it starts to give off steam (only joking).

    I'm glad that I've decided to upgrade my 18650/18700's ... My Ultrafires are playing up a bit now ... They are less than three years old and have not had too much use except for recently when discharged and recharged to check that my four cheap battery boards are charging OK ... My two unprotected Ultrafires won't now charge up fully even on the Soshine charger ... They get up to 4.20 volts and the charged LED comes on ... When removed and rested , they only read 4.00V and 4.04V ... One protected reads 4.10V when rested , the other four read 4.19V ... I think the two unprotected can be disposed of and I will keep an eye on the 4.10V cell ... I will keep the four good Ultrafires mainly for the Solarforce L2i's and my Maglite 2D with Fusion 36 as the cells are about 1.5 mm shorter than the protected Panasonics ... The Panasonics will fit the L2i , but I would have to slacken the torch head a turn or so (or trim the spring) to make up for it ... I might even go back to using six Eneloop AA's again in the Mag 2D ... I am waiting for two more Panasonic 3100mAh's to arrive and I will order a couple more in a month or so ... I have to be prepared for when the other Ultrafires eventually need replacing which might be sooner than later based on the fact that they are all the same age.

    Thanks again for the replies about the high chip temperature ... I'm happier now (a bit).
    .
    Last edited by march.brown; 08-21-2012 at 03:53 PM.

  24. #144

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by NoixPecan View Post
    Does the TP4056 follow the CC/CV algorithm any better than the TP4054? Obviously, we cannot trust the datasheet.
    Thanks to HKJ and his recent review of the ML-102 charger (in that thread) we now know that the TP4057 is not better than the TP4054 in that respect, which leaves little hope for the TP4056.

    However, as HKJ rightly said:
    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    The charge curve does not look like a CC/CV charger, but the only disadvantage with this type of curve is the slower charge speed, the final result will be just as good as a CC/CV charger.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    The Blue LED is on when charging and the Red comes on when charged ...
    Does anyone else have this problem.
    Everyone else seems to have Red LED for Charging and Blue LED for finished.
    The Blue LED is the one on the left when viewed with the USB socket on the left.
    The Red LED is the one on the right beside the battery connection.
    I have written to the seller but I don't think he quite understands the problem.
    It just seems wrong to have a Blue LED on whilst charging.

  26. #146
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by march.brown View Post
    The Blue LED is on when charging and the Red comes on when charged ...
    Does anyone else have this problem.
    Everyone else seems to have Red LED for Charging and Blue LED for finished.
    The Blue LED is the one on the left when viewed with the USB socket on the left.
    The Red LED is the one on the right beside the battery connection.
    I have written to the seller but I don't think he quite understands the problem.
    It just seems wrong to have a Blue LED on whilst charging.
    SILLY ME !

    I have just read the Ebay specification and it actually says that the Blue LED is on whilst charging and the Red LED is on when charged ...

    Am I the only one with a Blue charging LED and a Red finished LED ?

    I think I need a drink !
    .

  27. #147

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    march.brown:
    1) The datasheet (http://pds24.egloos.com/pds/201206/07/08/TP4056Eng.pdf) lists max Tj=145C, which is well above the temperatures you measured. It also lists an operating environment of -40C to 85C, though the "guaranteed" operating range would be smaller. They don't have it listed in the datasheet but I suspect it's around 0C-65C.
    2) From one of my posts earlier in this thread: "The only issue I noted is the LEDs are swapped vs the ebay listing. The charging position is blue and the completed is red."

  28. #148

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by ToddC View Post
    march.brown:
    1) The datasheet (http://pds24.egloos.com/pds/201206/07/08/TP4056Eng.pdf) lists max Tj=145C, which is well above the temperatures you measured. It also lists an operating environment of -40C to 85C, though the "guaranteed" operating range would be smaller. They don't have it listed in the datasheet but I suspect it's around 0C-65C.
    2) From one of my posts earlier in this thread: "The only issue I noted is the LEDs are swapped vs the ebay listing. The charging position is blue and the completed is red."
    Can't you just unsolder them and swap them? (may have to change a resistor perhaps).
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  29. #149
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    Can't you just unsolder them and swap them? (may have to change a resistor perhaps).
    Does it matter which the LED is used to indicate charging?

    Norm

  30. #150

    Default Re: Really cheap true cc/cv usb charging board

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Does it matter which the LED is used to indicate charging?

    Norm
    Not if all your devices are similar. I suppose if you got boards from 2 different batches and the LEDs were different/swapped it could get confusing.
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