ArmyTek        
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 225

Thread: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparisons

  1. #31
    HKJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    9,205

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Beacon of Light View Post
    Why wouldn't it be safe? It should terminate just like it would as normal. Would the cell being over discharged cause the runaway charge like was notorious on the Lacrosse BC900 chargers where it was charging at over 2000mAh resulting in a complete meltdown including charger and cells?
    LiIon has a safety problem when discharged to much, that is the reason many people warns against reusing over discharged LiIon batteries.


    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    Is this your opinion, or......? As we all know, NiMH cells and Li-Ion cells utilize a totally different charging algorithm. Not too long ago, I remember seeing a reference to where Panasonic had some sort of guideline for pulse charging Li-Ion cells. I meant to check for it, but never did. Also, I'm not sure whether this applied specifically to the newer LiNiCo cells, or all types of Li-Ion cells. If you could post a link to where an actual Li-Ion cell manufacturer discusses pulse charging Li-Ion cells, it would be much appreciated.

    As for Sysmax/JetBeam/Nitecore calling this a CC/CV charger, I still have a major problem with that. It seems deceiving, to me. From selfbuilt's and HKJ's (first version) own charge graphs, it obviously is not a CC/CV charger, as neither current nor voltage is constant. Similar to the way driver's limit current in our lights, you either have PWM, or current regulation, you can't have both. In the case of the i4 IntelliCharger, it obviously utilizes both pulsed voltage and current and is not CC/CV. That's not to say it isn't a good simulation of a CC/CV algorithm, but......

    It could very well be that the way this charger replicates a CC/CV algorithm, that it is acceptable. I'm just not convinced, until I see what the actual Li-Ion cell manufacturers have to say about pulse charging cells.

    As for charging smaller cells with this charger, yes, it apparently charges at ~750mA, 45% of the time, as HKJ said. In my opinion, that is not the same as a ~340mA constant current. Not exactly related and perhaps a poor example but, you can drive a 1000mA rated LED at 2000mA with 50% PWM, which is effectively 1000mA. However, regardless of the color bin, it'll have a bluish tint and it won't last very long......
    The 750mA charge current is not to high for the battery and the voltage also stays below the safe limit. The Panasonic specifications I have seen say to stay below 4.25 volt when using puls charge and this charger does that.
    The charger does a perfect CC/CV curve on 18650, but it does not look perfect on 16340 batteries, this has nothing to do with the pulsing.

    An you are wrong about driving a led at double current, half the time. This has for many years been done this way on 7 segment displays, except the ration is higher than two.
    My website with battery, charger, usb reviews, comparisons & information: https://lygte-info.dk/
    Latest addition is multimeter reviews

  2. #32
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Rural Ohio
    Posts
    2,800

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    The charger does a perfect CC/CV curve on 18650, but it does not look perfect on 16340 batteries, this has nothing to do with the pulsing.
    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post


    Well, maybe it's my eyes, LOL, but it sure looks to me like the current (green) in the above graph fluctuates initially between zero and ~740mA and later, between zero and a lesser value. The voltage (red) also appears to me to fluctuate as much as a tenth of a Volt, or more initially, and then does smooth out towards termination of charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    An you are wrong about driving a led at double current, half the time. This has for many years been done this way on 7 segment displays, except the ration is higher than two.
    Well, you may be correct about 7 segment displays, I have no idea. The only experience I have is with high power LEDS, such as those we use in our lights. With those, I didn't have much luck.

    Any link to the Panasonic recommendations for pulse charging Li-Ion cells?

    Dave

  3. #33
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Beacon of Light View Post
    Why wouldn't it be safe? It should terminate just like it would as normal. Would the cell being over discharged cause the runaway charge like was notorious on the Lacrosse BC900 chargers where it was charging at over 2000mAh resulting in a complete meltdown including charger and cells?
    I recall some previous discussions here in the old days that it was a bad idea to try to charge over-discharged cells, but I don't recall the specifics as to what the issue was exactly (or which chargers in particular). I gathered it was a general safety concern during charging.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Rural Ohio
    Posts
    2,800

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    I recall some previous discussions here in the old days that it was a bad idea to try to charge over-discharged cells
    The reason it's not a good idea to attempt to charge over discharged cells, is there is a danger of the cell "venting with flame".

    You really shouldn't attempt to charge "bad" cells. This includes older cells that do not retain their charge well, those that retain less than 70-80% of their original capacity, cells that seem to get noticeably warmer than normal while charging, and cells that have been over discharged. Cells that suffer from the above conditions are likely damaged in some way and should be considered unstable.

    Cells that have been over discharged in particular, are prone to copper shunts having formed across the separator. This is also often the cause of high self discharge, as this is basically a short circuit. When attempting to charge cells in this condition, the added energy from the charging process itself adds to the problem and there is the possibility of the cell(s) venting.

    I'll also add here that there is no such thing as "reconditioning" Li-Ion cells. They are a one way trip. Attempting to recondition Li-Ion cells just adds more wear to the cell, making them even more unstable, and increases the possibility of encountering unexpected problems, ie. "venting".

    Dave

  5. #35
    HKJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    9,205

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    Well, maybe it's my eyes, LOL, but it sure looks to me like the current (green) in the above graph fluctuates initially between zero and ~740mA and later, between zero and a lesser value. The voltage (red) also appears to me to fluctuate as much as a tenth of a Volt, or more initially, and then does smooth out towards termination of charge.
    The pulsing does not really change anything in the CC/CV curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    Well, you may be correct about 7 segment displays, I have no idea. The only experience I have is with high power LEDS, such as those we use in our lights. With those, I didn't have much luck.
    There are some limits you has to obey when puling leds, but when you do I have not seen I led that could not be pulsed at higher than specified current.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    Any link to the Panasonic recommendations for pulse charging Li-Ion cells?
    I do not have a link to that. I have only seen a few specifications.
    My website with battery, charger, usb reviews, comparisons & information: https://lygte-info.dk/
    Latest addition is multimeter reviews

  6. #36

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Now that I have mine in hand I reread this review and it is really helpful for a layman flashaholic like myself. Your explanation of the slot channel/charging is appreciated as the instructions don't go into much detail about the different slots.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    i'm a noob....

    would this charger be good for the AW IMR 18350 (red unprotected cells sold here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...ight=IMR+18350)?

    Everyone says those batteries are best for my jetbeam rrt01, so i need a good charger. thx

  8. #38
    HKJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    9,205

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateBoy View Post
    i'm a noob....

    would this charger be good for the AW IMR 18350 (red unprotected cells sold here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...ight=IMR+18350)?

    Everyone says those batteries are best for my jetbeam rrt01, so i need a good charger. thx
    Yes it will.
    My website with battery, charger, usb reviews, comparisons & information: https://lygte-info.dk/
    Latest addition is multimeter reviews

  9. #39

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Just a quick question regarding charging single AAA battery in i4 v2. According to the manufacturer spec and a graph provided by selfbuilt charging current for single NiMH cell never goes over 750mA and according to Sanyo Eneloop AAA (normal not the 'Lite' type) spec-sheet there should be no problem with charging currents up to 800mA and AFAIK Eneloops have no problem with charging at 1C. So despite Sysmax not recommending it there should be no problem charging single Eneloop AAA in i4 v2 or am I missing something?
    Last edited by ClassicGOD; 05-21-2012 at 06:38 AM.
    "We notice things that don't work. We don't notice things that do."

    - Douglas Adams


  10. #40
    HKJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    9,205

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicGOD View Post
    Just a quick question regarding charging single AAA battery in i4 v2. According to the manufacturer spec and a graph provided by selfbuilt charging current for single NiMH cell never goes over 750mA and according to Sanyo Eneloop AAA (normal not the 'Lite' type) spec-sheet there should be no problem with charging currents up to 800mA and AFAIK Eneloops have no problem with charging at 1C. So despite Sysmax not recommending it there should be no problem charging single Eneloop AAA in i4 v2 or am I missing something?
    That is correct, there is no problem with eneloop AAA on the i4, only with LiIon 10440.
    My website with battery, charger, usb reviews, comparisons & information: https://lygte-info.dk/
    Latest addition is multimeter reviews

  11. #41
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicGOD View Post
    . So despite Sysmax not recommending it there should be no problem charging single Eneloop AAA in i4 v2 or am I missing something?
    That is right, there is no real concern with regular NiMH AAA batteries. It is just 10440 you have to watch out for.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  12. #42
    Unenlightened DP Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Wawarsing, NY
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    I just purchase 4 of these - thanks for the review - it was outstanding and the price/value is certainly there!

    Never trust a man who doesn't carry a pocketknife.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    I recently purchased the Intellicharger and took a DVM reading on the positive and negative contacts. The reading I get is 5.2v. My other solarforce charger gives me 4.20v. Is this normal?
    Last edited by cbr400rr; 06-11-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  14. #44
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by cbr400rr View Post
    I recently purchased the Intellicharger and took a DVM reading on the positive and negative contacts. The reading I get is 5.2v. My other solarforce charger gives me 4.20v. Is this normal?
    Hmmm, seems to be "normal" - I get 5.33V when the charger is plugged in but no cell is in the slot.

    When charging, voltage across the cell reflects what is in my charging curves (i.e. <4.22V at all times).
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* hank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Berkeley CA
    Posts
    1,555

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    > over-discharged cells. But I'd recommend tossing cells in that state -

    As explained above the problem is with crystals ("shunt") growing inside a battery once it's been over-discharged.
    This doesn't happen immediately or predictably and not only during charging or during use; it happens slowly over time.
    Eventually one of the crystals pokes a hole through a membrane that separates the chemicals that need to be kept separate.
    Then the battery starts heating up.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    I just bought mine from here to quick charge 12x18650s for my EYE30

    http://black-tactical.com/store/elec...charger-p-2937

    although it didn't say from Nitecore

  17. #47

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    How does this charger compare to a Maha if we are only talking about recharging Nimh AA's. Does it do any conditioning, etc.? Thanks

  18. #48
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by zoulas View Post
    How does this charger compare to a Maha if we are only talking about recharging Nimh AA's. Does it do any conditioning, etc.? Thanks
    No, it is just a straight-forward charger.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Can anyone confirm the charger doesnt trickle charge towards the end as i need to charge unprotected LG 3100 batts

  20. #50
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Baddog View Post
    Can anyone confirm the charger doesnt trickle charge towards the end as i need to charge unprotected LG 3100 batts
    Quoted from the review:

    The i4 does not completely terminate when the three yellow LEDs go solid. Although my DMM dropped to zero on my 10A port, when I switched over an re-ran the termination charge on my DMM’s mA/uA port, I measured a low 110 uA current. But this is low enough to be irrelevant. Note that despite what the manual says, this is not what most people understand as a "trickle charge." A true "trickle charge" usually involves a regular pulse of mA current, to maintain the fully charged state. IMO, this is not a good thing for Li-ions – most "trickle chargers" are set too high, and over the long-term, will slowly cook your batteries (i.e. it gradually over-charges the cell, as long as it sits in the charger). The constant low uA current here is negligible, and will not lead to "trickle-charger" over-charging. For all intents and purposes, the i4 is close enough to full termination.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Just wanted to thank both selfbuilt and HJK for all the information in this thread!

  22. #52
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,369

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Thank you for this review; it answered many of my questions.

    My one remaining question is it safe to leave the charger plugged in with fully charged batteries?

    I have read the discharge of Eagletac 18650 Li-ion is 10% or more; is it safe to leave a fully charged Eagletac 18650 in a plugged in Nitecore i4 version2 for 30 days?

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by sidecross View Post
    My one remaining question is it safe to leave the charger plugged in with fully charged batteries?
    I have read the discharge of Eagletac 18650 Li-ion is 10% or more; is it safe to leave a fully charged Eagletac 18650 in a plugged in Nitecore i4 version2 for 30 days?
    It is certainly safe to leave the cells for a period of time once fully charged (as this is not a so-called "trickle charger", that would slowly cook them). But I wouldn't never recommend leaving cells in a charger for more than a few hours - they should be pulled once ready. You shouldn't leave any charging system plugged in for days at a time - they should always be monitored, and not left unattended if you can help it.

    There is certainly no reason to leave them plugged in. In terms of self-discharge, it is fairly low on Li-ion (compared to other types of non-Li chemistries). And since this isn't a trickle-charger, leaving them plugged in will not keep them "topped up" anyway (i.e. the uA current is too low).

    Also, you should never leave batteries in a charger that is unplugged from a wall. Keep in mind that anything that is set-up to charge a cell can also discharge it. I've seen batteries left in an unplugged charger drain more quickly. Just remove them once ready and store them somewhere safe, and you should be fine.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  24. #54
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,369

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    It is certainly safe to leave the cells for a period of time once fully charged (as this is not a so-called "trickle charger", that would slowly cook them). But I wouldn't never recommend leaving cells in a charger for more than a few hours - they should be pulled once ready. You shouldn't leave any charging system plugged in for days at a time - they should always be monitored, and not left unattended if you can help it.

    There is certainly no reason to leave them plugged in. In terms of self-discharge, it is fairly low on Li-ion (compared to other types of non-Li chemistries). And since this isn't a trickle-charger, leaving them plugged in will not keep them "topped up" anyway (i.e. the uA current is too low).

    Also, you should never leave batteries in a charger that is unplugged from a wall. Keep in mind that anything that is set-up to charge a cell can also discharge it. I've seen batteries left in an unplugged charger drain more quickly. Just remove them once ready and store them somewhere safe, and you should be fine.

    Thank you for your answer it clears up any doubt I had about these batteries. The very informative review you wrote of the version 2 of the NITECORE i4 charger was also greatly appreciated.

    I have only used Surefire flashlights with Surefire 123 lithium batteries, but I have recently purchased the Eagletac G25C, some of Eagletac's 18650 rechargeable batteries and NITECORE i4 and your help to better understand these new products is very much appreciated.

    A 'tip of my cap' to your very good information.

  25. #55
    Flashaholic* oKtosiTe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    973

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Due to the forum crash a couple of days ago, I'll have to repost this:

    I was wondering about the stiff springs on this charger. After a bit of thought and interaction with selfbuilt and others, I decided to put a tiny amount of Nyogel on the rails of the charger and can report that inserting batteries is now a smooth experience.

    Thanks to selfbuilt and HKJ for their great reviews!

  26. #56
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Hello World!
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Excellent review and great shots mate. Thanks.
    I have one question though. Does this charger have the ability to discharge cells? I do not see this option mentioned though you said it can "discharge" cells like you maha charger @ 1830MAH??

  27. #57
    Flashaholic* oKtosiTe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    973

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgath View Post
    Excellent review and great shots mate. Thanks.
    I have one question though. Does this charger have the ability to discharge cells? I do not see this option mentioned though you said it can "discharge" cells like you maha charger @ 1830MAH??
    I have one and it has no settings or buttons. All it does is charge.

  28. #58
    *Flashaholic* selfbuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,870

    Default

    There is no discharge feature.

    Sent from my handheld device
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Spring 2018 Sale
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    Thanks for the review. I have alot of aaa/aa rechargeables and im looking to replace it. Glad to see this work for the 18650 since i need to buy some for a new light i just ordered.

  30. #60

    Default Re: Sysmax/Nitecore/Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger Review (V2): current/voltage comparison

    I'm curious about this.. Does this charger send out slightly too much current to charge a single AA Nimh/Lithium? They say it doesn't, but if you only insert one battery it charges at around 750mh, is that around the upper limit charging current for an AA?

    Other question, it says to put in AAA's in pairs so to cut the charging current 375mA. What if one of the AAA's finishes charging before the other, will the current be bumped up to 750mA and cook the other AAA?
    Always look on the bright side of life

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •