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Thread: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

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    Default Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    It looks like the updated T1A at 100 lumens is now for sale. Does anyone have one yet and compared it to the normal 70 lumen model? Has the blue tint been fixed?

    http://www.surefire.com/illumination...t1a-titan.html

    I'm also wondering if it's worth the rather substantial premium compared to the new breed of variable lights from Jetbeam and Sunwayman. Any thoughts? I love my Surefires but find it hard to justify $250 for such a light.

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    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    I can't comment on latest version, but I have the original T1A, and I love it. There is quite a lot written on that light as well, it seems most who have owned them really loved them, even though the output may not be the most amazing.

    Some good reading: Here Here (despite the title, a lot of positive comments in this one, plus several classic lines from some long-timers here)

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Nice to see that the 100 Lumen version is up on the Surefire site. I think you're the first to find it listed, so I would be surprised if anybody had one in hand at this point.

    Without knowing much of anything about the update, I couldn't say if it is a significant improvement. I can say that the build quality of my old T1A is absolutely superior to the other control ring lights I have owned (Sunwayman V10R Ti, Jetbeam TCR1) and it isn't that much more expensive than those.

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    Flashaholic* archimedes's Avatar
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    These are great lights, for their specific purpose.

    A 30% increase in output is not likely to be easily noticeable (by eye), or particularly needed.

    If the new version has a warmer tint, however ...
    Last edited by archimedes; 04-25-2012 at 02:13 PM.
    IF 2 = 1 THEN 1 = 0

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Rock solid light.

    Awesome stock if you don't mind very cool tints.

    Amazing modded to a XP-G or XM-L. It's a floody light so it might do real nice with the new Nichia 219 LEDs.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Not to be too pedantic, but 70 to 100 is a 42% increase, which should be enough to be noticeable. The big difference really is going to come from what emitter they're using. If they're putting XP-Gs in the T1A, then I will definitely be on the lookout for one.

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    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    When you pay the asking price for a SF, it shouldn't NEED an emitter upgrade as soon as you get it. Yeah, I know.....
    "I am not a Collector" - Tim

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    Flashaholic* archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Tab View Post
    Not to be too pedantic, but 70 to 100 is a 42% increase, which should be enough to be noticeable. The big difference really is going to come from what emitter they're using. If they're putting XP-Gs in the T1A, then I will definitely be on the lookout for one.
    HDS/Ra "burst" mode steps down from 100 to 71 lumens (isn't that a 29% decrease?), and I can't notice it unless I'm really looking for it.

    And that's with my 170T's throwy beam .... I would think that it would be even less obvious with a floody output like the T1A (since the same total lumens are diffused over a wider area).

    To my old eyes, anyway
    IF 2 = 1 THEN 1 = 0

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    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
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    Good to see this is out. I was hoping they would update it and actually release it. Just have to find a dealer who carries it. After using my T1A, I just couldn't go to a different UI. So hopefully the led in this new version is a little warmer.

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    Flashaholic Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    HDS/Ra "burst" mode steps down from 100 to 71 lumens (isn't that a 29% decrease?)
    Yes but that's not the same as going from 70 to 100.
    Going from 70 to 100 is a 42 % increase.
    30/70 x 100 = 42,857 %


    Going from 100 to 71 is a 29% decrease.
    29/100 x 100 = 29 %.


    Remember allways to use the original number , when you are dividing
    Last edited by Viking; 04-25-2012 at 05:35 PM.

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    Flashaholic* archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Yes but that's not the same as going from 70 to 100.
    Going from 70 to 100 is a 42 % increase.
    30/70 x 100 = 42,857 %


    Going from 100 to 71 is a 29% decrease.
    29/100 x 100 = 29 %.


    Remember allways to use the original number , when you are dividing
    I'm not disputing the math, but what's the relevance? It's still a change of 30 lumens, up or down, right? Whether you want to look at it as 70 to 100, or 100 to 70, 30% or 40%, whatever ... my point was that visual difference was not likely to be easily noticeable (at least by me, I guess).

    The rough rule of thumb I use personally is that a doubling (100% change, if you like) of lumens are needed for any easily noticeable change in output ... and 10x (1000%) for apparent doubling in brightness.

    I'm not sure that 3 significant digits are needed for calculating light output for these purposes ( "42.857% increase" ) , either ...

    Apologies to the OP if my sloppy math pulled this thread off-topic.
    Last edited by archimedes; 04-25-2012 at 07:02 PM.
    IF 2 = 1 THEN 1 = 0

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    One thing which me be overlooked here is that Surefire had changed their ratings method on some lights over time. A few years back they used to severely underrate their lights output. Could it be possible that they have re-rated this light without changing anything? Just a thought.

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    Flashaholic* archimedes's Avatar
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    My understanding is that this may have been the case with the E1B (80/110 lumen) model ?
    IF 2 = 1 THEN 1 = 0

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Regardless of whether the increased brightness is noticeable, the important difference will be in the emitter that Surefire is using. If they just re-rated it and are using the same emitter, I will be very disappointed.

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    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    If they were to put a new emitter in the T1A (doubt they did), I think they should use the XM-L, not the XP-G. A big floody die is really more appropriate for this light as it is designed as a close range flooder. The SSC P4 that was used was/is very good and is one of my favorite emitters for smooth floody beams. I don't think a big jump in lumens is very important anyways for this light, maybe 150 lm tops, but the increase in efficiency would be nice.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    I like my T1A a lot. It's nice that SF is increasing the lumens, but to be honest I really hope the efficiency goes up. My t1a eats batteries... More runtime would be welcome - I don't care about the output increase as much.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    What ^^^ said. I like my T1A very much, blue tint and all, but it does eat CR123A cells much faster than it should for a light of this output. Hopefully the new version uses a more efficient modern emitter.

    Rather than continue to blow through primaries, I'm using 16340 rechargeable IMR cells with no ill effects despite the increased voltage.

    I sometimes muse about modding / having someone modify this light. An efficient emitter (I'm not looking for more brightness necessarily) would be absolutely killer in the Titan.
    Last edited by tandem; 04-25-2012 at 11:38 PM.

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    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
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    Well since the Surefire catalog states that the output has increased, I would expect that they actually changed the emitter.

    Why doesn't someone buy one so we can find out?

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    You can easily get 100 lm out of the P4. Sorry to burst the bubble but it could be the same emitters guys. Just don't want you all to melt down if it is. Either way, it's still a very useful light and my absolute favorite bedside light.

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    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    You can easily get 100 lm out of the P4. Sorry to burst the bubble but it could be the same emitters guys. Just don't want you all to melt down if it is. Either way, it's still a very useful light and my absolute favorite bedside light.
    Well that's true, but my main concern is that the original T1A P4 was too cool. I'm hoping the "new" one will be a bit warmer, even if it is a P4. We can always dream, can't we.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Well that's true, but my main concern is that the original T1A P4 was too cool. I'm hoping the "new" one will be a bit warmer, even if it is a P4. We can always dream, can't we.
    Is now a good time to start an unsubstantiated rumor that the updated T1A will use the new Nichia 219 4500K high-CRI emitter, or should I wait until later? LOL.
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Is now a good time to start an unsubstantiated rumor that the updated T1A will use the new Nichia 219 4500K high-CRI emitter, or should I wait until later? LOL.
    I just wished that it could be true.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    The SureFire site says the low output is 1.0 lumens. Wasn't the old version known for a lower low? Why would they change this?

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    The older light also said low output is 1.0 lumens. It's way lower than that - some tiny fraction of a lumen. (It is the dimmest low on any light I own.) I hope the new one is similarly dim, making a higher low would not be a feature - at least not a much higher low.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    I own several control ring lights including the new Jetbeams and Sunwaymans. The T1A is by far the highest build quality. The control ring is the smoothest and most precise of them all. It is also quite compact. It has been one of my most favorite lights although I wish for a little more output and a lot more efficiency. Being able to tail stand and use RCRs would also be nice. My T1A tint is slightly cool - just the way I like it. I have been thinking of putting a XML in it. Those who have one modded with a XML, please post your experiences. Its a Surefire so you pay a lot more - it was worth it then as a cutting edge light.

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    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean

    Well that's true, but my main concern is that the original T1A P4 was too cool. I'm hoping the "new" one will be a bit warmer, even if it is a P4. We can always dream, can't we.
    HDS used P4s in their HI CRI Legacy lights, so such nice emitters definitely were made. Whether they are still in production or available in quantities needed to satisfy SF's needs is another question.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    I'm wondering if we will see a range of slight upgrades coming soon. My thinking is that it could be the same emitter (hopefully a different, less blue bin) but may be a different driver to cope with the new surefire rechargeable LiFePO4's. Could be a slight voltage increase on the driver board, which may mean more efficient design?

    Personally though, I think this is less of an upgrade, and more coming into line with the Flashlight Standards. Perhaps a new emitter or driver, but could equally be a re-measurement of the output of the old light
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Is now a good time to start an unsubstantiated rumor that the updated T1A will use the new Nichia 219 4500K high-CRI emitter, or should I wait until later? LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by pjandyho View Post
    I just wished that it could be true.
    Mine does! Just spent the night upgrading the emitter in mine and it is exquisite. Easily 100+ lumens and probably closer to 150.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Light View Post
    The SureFire site says the low output is 1.0 lumens. Wasn't the old version known for a lower low? Why would they change this?
    This is how it has always read but it goes way lower. Still one of the lowest lows out there and with the rotary control knob you get more low level flexibilty than any other light out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by tolkaze View Post
    I'm wondering if we will see a range of slight upgrades coming soon. My thinking is that it could be the same emitter (hopefully a different, less blue bin) but may be a different driver to cope with the new surefire rechargeable LiFePO4's. Could be a slight voltage increase on the driver board, which may mean more efficient design?

    Personally though, I think this is less of an upgrade, and more coming into line with the Flashlight Standards. Perhaps a new emitter or driver, but could equally be a re-measurement of the output of the old light
    I don't mean to come across as negative, but I wouldn't get your hopes up that anything has changed with this light. It's always used a SSC P4 and you can be sure that Surefire gets their LED supply from the mass market. They've never been too picky with the angry blue tints they use in their lights.

    I've been using LiFePO4 batteries in my T1A for a few years now so that's nothing new. It will even run on RCR123 cells if the voltage is down below 3.8v or so but it wont run on a fully charged one. I don't think they've changed the driver - if you've ever pulled on apart the driver is almost a work of art. That they have squeezed a stack of 3 PCBs with a potentiometer and a huge inductor is amazing. And even though simple in function the driver packs a ton of features. It's a true current controlled infinitely variable driver. It features a auto shutoff protection circuit in case the light has been turned on just a bit in your pocket. It also features a slow ramping technology - when you turn the control real fast you can see that the level change speed is controlled and will sometimes play catch-up if you are quick enough.

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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    I'd love to see beamshots of that T1A with 219, sounds the the perfect edc.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire T1A Titan still worth it?

    One thing I can say for sure, I have one of the earliest T1A's and it's not 100 lumens. It's about 81 or so and I've had pretty good luck measuring lumen output from lights that are less than about 120 lumens. So at the very least they are using higher output P4's. Hopefully someone buys one and tells us if it's as blue as the original. I've seen several ebay sellers claim to be selling the new 100 lumen version but admit the box states 70 lumens. If I didn't just spend some money on other lights I would get one and find out.

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