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Thread: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    As the title indicates, we all know there are some real issues with regards to battery fit in the Magic Fire. Perhaps all the owners could chime in with what is working and what doesn't work. If you want to include the dimensions of your battery tube for the sake of reference it might come in handy as well. Since the kick-off of the 65W version is here, this might take some of the guess work out for new or repeat Magic Fire owners.

    P.S. I'll credit your work in the master thread for anyone who contributes.
    Last edited by Patriot; 04-30-2012 at 10:55 PM.

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    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Compatible Cells:

    AW IMR 1600mah (BVH) post 3
    AW 3100, very tight (Kashmir) post 12
    Redilast 3100mah, tight (Patriot) post 4
    Eagletac 3100mah (Mohanjude) MF65W thread
    Sanyo 2600 mah red, unprotected (Doberman) post 9
    SenyBor 2800mah protected (Doberman) post 9
    Trustfire 2400 mah protected/unprotected (Doberman) post 9
    Ultra 2600, tight (Mar) post 11


    Incompatible Cells:

    Ultra-Fire 3000mah (Patriot) post 4
    3100 Xtar (Mar) post 11


    Use With Caution:

    Kallies Customs CGR 2250mah (BVH) post 3, 15 (The cells caused a dead short in BVH's light but Fusion_8 is using them without an issue. Could be related to the battery tube chamfer dimension differences.)
    Last edited by Patriot; 05-08-2012 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    AW IMR 1600's fit and work fine. Kallies Customs CGR 2250's and another sellers same battery (I forget, but bought them from overseas. Same gray label but no logo) fit but the unprotected negative metal casings at the very tip/end of the cell on the two forward-most cells when in the carrier, dead short through the flashlight tube. The shrink tube does not wrap over the end.
    WWII 60" Anti Aircraft Carbon Arc (Sold), Short Arcs: 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600 Watt M-134 Gun Light, 500 Watt X-500-14s, 500 Watt Starburst, 300 Watt Locators, Megaray, 150 Watt Set Beam & Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, LarryK14@52V

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    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    The Ultrafire 3000mah cells are so fat that I had to figure out a cell combination that worked. I kept switching the cells to different bays in the carrier. Once I figured out the combination I numbered the cells 1-4 and then used a Sharpie marker to make tick marks on the carrier end plate, drawn as I, II, III, IIII since there was no room for full numerals. If I always put the same cells into the same bays on the carrier they do fit tightly but to be honest it's not practical.



    Redilast 3100 are snug but they fit.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    OK I have posted this on the 65W thread as well but for future reference all the 4 types of batteries in the picture work.




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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    As I have mentioned before, I use Redilast 2900s in mine with no issues other than being a snug fit (kinda gotta shake the light a bit to get the carrier back out but not too bad.) This is, of course, with the sharp ridge removed with a dremel.

    Why design such a nice light and then put no effort whatsoever into testing for battery compatibility with a few of the most common cells used? Even Zebralight, for example, has been guilty of this. Just makes no sense! I mean, just drill the damn hole bigger than the fattest cells you can get your hands on and call it good. It's not rocket science. Duuuuuh....

    [/rant]
    Last edited by Colonel Sanders; 05-01-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post

    Why design such a nice light and then put no effort whatsoever into testing for battery compatibility with a few of the most common cells used? Even Zebralight, for example, has been guilty of this. Just makes no sense! I mean, just drill the damn hole bigger than the fattest cells you can get your hands on and call it good. It's not rocket science. Duuuuuh....

    [/rant]

    I fully agree. It's just thoughtless, mass production, that lacks any care or personal touch. I'll go out onto a limb and speculate they don't use 'em, don't have any interest in 'em, they just make as quickly and cheaply as possible.

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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Quote Originally Posted by mohanjude View Post
    OK I have posted this on the 65W thread as well but for future reference all the 4 types of batteries in the picture work.

    Thanks for the info Mohanjude.

    Those 4GREER cells look mangled! I gather that's from using them in the (Skinner) aka Magic Fire.

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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Hi all,

    Sanyo 2600 mAh (red, unprotected) work
    SenyBor 2800mAh (protected) work
    Trustfire 2400 mAh (protected/unprotected) work

    Greetz
    Doberman

    P.S.: If not already statet somewhere: It helps protecting the batteries chamfering the end of the tube with a file.
    Last edited by Doberman; 05-03-2012 at 07:55 AM. Reason: P.S.added

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Thanks for the info Mohanjude.

    Those 4GREER cells look mangled! I gather that's from using them in the (Skinner) aka Magic Fire.
    Those cells have been in a lot of different lights. Actually it is the reflection of the scratches of the print that is looking bad. The actual skin is in intact. I have really given those cells some abuse.

    For the purpose of this thread the 4Greers will fit and not tear if inserted carefully.

    Mohan
    During the day when I don't need a torch ... RC is my hobby http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/47842/Always on the lookout for McGizmo/Kuku Titanium torches with Trits..

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    Enlightened Mar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Recieved my 40 Watt today and the 3100 Xtar do not fit but the Ultra 2600 will, tight but they go in. I'm just waiting for then to be charged.

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    Enlightened kashmir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    I'm using AW 3100 (snug fit). I dremeled out the sharp lip on the body of the light and the cells have to be placed " just right" into the cell carrier. Loading the carrier into the body takes a little time and patience!

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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Quote Originally Posted by mohanjude View Post
    Those cells have been in a lot of different lights. Actually it is the reflection of the scratches of the print that is looking bad. The actual skin is in intact. I have really given those cells some abuse.

    For the purpose of this thread the 4Greers will fit and not tear if inserted carefully.

    Mohan

    Oh, ok. Good to hear. I took another look and your picture and can see what you're talking about. Sounds like they're really tight though if you're having to be careful.

    Makes you wonder what cells they tested their end product if the majority of these cells are requiring us to install them so gingerly.

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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    I'm curious to know the definition of "incompatible" when used in this thread.

    The Kallie's Kustoms 2250s aka Panasonic CGR18650s fit and work perfectly in my 40w for over more than a dozen times now with no spark, short circuit or explosion of any kind.

    If the 1/32 gap at the base of the cells render these cells as incompatible, then those cells would be defined as incompatible with ANY light, not just the MF40w&65w, but thats not the case is it?

    Labelling the Kallie's Kustoms/Panasonic 2250mah CGR18650s as incompatible with just the the MF40w&65w is inaccurate in my opinion.
    Last edited by Fusion_m8; 05-04-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    I traced the electrical path implemented by the carrier and found that when loaded with cells, the springs at the back end of the carrier – which are on the upper left side and upper right side in my pics, are of different polarity as evidenced by the Voltage reading. The spring on the left is negative and the spring on the right is positive. So accordingly, the cell canisters in contact with the springs are of the same polarity as the spring they contact. When inserted into the flashlight and the uninsulated canister ends of both cells contact the flashlight body there is a direct short thru the body of the light. The same would happen with the two remaining cells if you could manage to get the first two in without creating the short circuit. Note that the first place of contact on the body does not have any Anodize left due to an approximate .003” raw metal chamfer to facilitate carrier insertion. If the Anodize was still there, it might not short or it might, I don’t know for sure. Without the chamfer, you end up with peeled insulation. So if you manage to get the cells in with shorting, you might be ok. However, if you use the flashlight and the Anodize wears off inside the body, you’re still going to have the dead short potential. If you’re really brave or simply inquisitive, you could test this yourself by very quickly, carefully and lightly touching a wire between the two points in my test. But I certainly would not recommend it.

    Voltage reading from probing negative ends of right and left cell outer canister. Negative obtained from left cell and positive from right cell.

    Last edited by BVH; 05-07-2012 at 09:11 PM.
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    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_m8 View Post
    I'm curious to know the definition of "incompatible" when used in this thread.

    The Kallie's Kustoms 2250s aka Panasonic CGR18650s fit and work perfectly in my 40w for over more than a dozen times now with no spark, short circuit or explosion of any kind.

    If the 1/32 gap at the base of the cells render these cells as incompatible, then those cells would be defined as incompatible with ANY light, not just the MF40w&65w, but thats not the case is it?

    Labelling the Kallie's Kustoms/Panasonic 2250mah CGR18650s as incompatible with just the the MF40w&65w is inaccurate in my opinion.


    Fair enough, updated. According to BVH's posts the potential exists for a dead short depeding on battery tube chamfer dimensions and thickness of battery tube anodizing. User Beware.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Fusion_m8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    Thanks for the update Patriot.

    I contacted Panasonic about the gap issue and even linked our CPF forum for Panasonic to have a first hand read regarding our concerns. I got a reply from their Senior Applications Engineer, and he confirmed that all is safe unless the body of the flashlight is positive biased. I have included a copy of the email below.

    Gavin, A.K.A. Fusion m8

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding the CGR18650CH cell.

    You are correct with your computability comment.
    On several of our 18650 Li Ion cells, the shrink wrap around the cell does not go all the way to the bottom of the cell. This is by design. The entire can is negative, and only the the button on top is positive.
    It should not be an issue in your flashlight, unless the body of the flashlight is biased positive. Highly unlikely, as you would be exposing the user to potential danger.

    I hope this helps alleviate the concern. And again, thank you for your interest and concern with Panasonic products.


    Kind Regards,
    Dennis


    Dennis J. Malec
    Senior Applications Engineer
    Panasonic Industrial Company


    EMAIL: Dennis.Malec@us.Panasonic.com
    PHONE: 847-637-4594
    CELL: 847-778-8125
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    They are most likely not taking into consideration that this light uses a battery carrier where not every battery can is of negative polarity. They are probably thinking conventional flashlight where the body is typically used to convey negative to the bulb. The polarity of the body is not relevant in this as negative is conveyed via the outer spring on the front of the carrier. The body is simply a stand-alone device that is connecting negative to positive.
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    Enlightened Mar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell Compatibility Thread (Magic Fire 40W-65W)

    International Outdoor 3100's fit smoothly in the 40 watt.

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