The value of a "tactical" light for civilian concealed-carry

[fishndad]

Well since you put it that way. LOL

[dc38]

Well since you put it that way. LOL

LOL...I'm generally a passive person. For example, this thread's particular POI is discussing the purpose and possible utility of carrying a "TACTICAL" rated light as a civilian, not just any old flashlight. I'm sure this was mentioned before, but the term "tactical" is usually marketing hype these days. USING a flashlight tactically in a situation where it is required is a different story; after blinding somebody with a flashlight, you should use that opportunity to GTFO. You do NOT know what kind of heat the other party is packing, no matter how harmless they seem. (I will admit, it was VERY stupid of me to approach the homeless guy after he crumpled...but I can't help being somewhat compassionate lol. I COULD potentially have gotten shanked though.) Basically, Blast their retinas, Pick a direction, and Haul your booty down the street in such a way to make yourself a tiny (or disappearing) target. Any light can be used tactically, though some lights may be more durable and desirable because they were designed for abuse.

[ledmitter_nli]

Hey flashlight nut! I suppose my statement was misinterpreted to some extent. I didn't mean to spark a feud of any sort, it was just a passing comment about SOME cops being bullies and stupid. I apologize if i offended you in any way, but you shouldn't feel offended. My statement applies to some local cops around me who think they know everything. To recount an occurrence: a cop pulls over next to me at the bus stop and ask what i'm doing there. I tell him I'm waiting for the bus. He keeps asking me as to where I'm going, so i ask him if he has any reason to be questioning me like he is doing. He says he "don't need no reason to know your business". I replied that if i'm not under suspicion for anything or being detained, I'd appreciate if he would go on his merry way, because he's blocking the bus stop. He pulls his car into the parking lot behind me (shopping complex) and gets out of the car and approaches me and tells me to drop my bag. I tell him i don't consent to any unlawful searches and question him again as to why he's stopping me and if i'm free to go about my business. I point to the bus, which is now right next to us at the bus stop, and the driver is willing to wait because he recognizes me. I tell him to go on because he's a stickler for schedules. Anyways, the cop decides to grab my arm as i'm telling the driver to go, and whips me back around. (at this point i would like to yell in his face). He takes my bag and rifles through it and finds...nothing. I ask if he knows he is in serious violation for an unlawful search, and he raises his voice that i have no rights. He then drops my bag and proceeds to take my prized Klarus out of my pocket, again, without my permission. Dumbass shines the thing in his face and says, why are you carrying a weapon? At this point, another patrol car is passing by, and i flag them down. They come over and the first cop says, this kid is carrying a potentially dangerous weapon. (basically, they agreed that it potentially COULD be used to blind passing motorists, or as a kubaton) I was like, SERIOUSLY? The other cop agrees with this first moron, and tweedle dee and tweedle dum cuff me and stick me in the back of one of the cars and radio in for whatever reason. Needless to say, they HAD to let me go, as I was in violation of NO laws. I filed a complaint with the local station as well as the mayor's office, but in retrospect, I should've reported it to the news. So long story short, I'm just saying that there are SOME stupid cops around who are *#$(&*#!&**. Disregarding that, Flashlight nut, almost all other cops are professional and courteous, including NY's Finest. I have a few cops who are quite close friends, and never in a million years would i call them stupid.

Should of asked to see a sergeant (blue wings) or speak to a lieutenant. Or next time tell them that you're going to wake up your lawyer then proceed to file a civil harassment suit against them.

[dc38]

Should of asked to see a sergeant (blue wings) or speak to a lieutenant. Or next time tell them that you're going to wake up your lawyer and file a civil harassment suit against them.

Thanks NLI! I'll keep that in my mind for next time. It just bothered me at the time, but I hold no grudge. If it happens again, I'll do just that

Welcome to CPF!

[ledmitter_nli]

Thanks NLI! I'll keep that in my mind for next time. It just bothered me at the time, but I hold no grudge. If it happens again, I'll do just that

Welcome to CPF!

I think the majority of officers are hero's, they genuinely are interested in bringing down the scumbags and looking out for the good people. These good people could be their very own, wives, children, neighbors. Just listening to the radio would tune you in to this fact. For instance, a suicidal woman crying on a pay phone calls 911 for help and the dispatcher puts out the call. The police arrive at the location but she wasn't there. Listening to the radio chatter pick up you can tell they where genuinely concerned for her well being (either that or they didn't want her to throw herself in front of a car killing her, and, the occupants ). Other officers pooled and started canvassing for her...

Or the perp in a long coat in warm weather banging on a someones door. The network lights up and the units go literally "balls to the wall" (thanks TEEJ! ) as if it was their own family being threatened.

Makes me want to join the academy myself.

If only I wasn't so short

[ikeyballz]

This is slightly still off topic, but yes LEOs get a lot of grief for the bad apples. Don't judge em all based on the bad ones, but go after the bad ones (legally) when you can to make the force better overall!

All my experiences with LEOs have shown me MOST of them are very respectful and polite - but of course not all are. I've had my run ins with a few power-tripping ones too.

[flashlight nut]

Thanks for the kind sentiments dc38 and everyone else. Again, I would like to apologize to all of you for derailing the thread with my rants and to fyrstormer, who I may have been a little too hard on. If it makes you feel any better, I too have been harassed by a few cops when I was younger. In my late teens and early twenties I lost count how many times my car was tossed and I was patted down for apparently no reason since I never got charged with anything. Even as an LEO occasionally I get major attitude from my brethren but 99.9% try real hard to do the right thing day in and day out.
All right, enough hugs and swapping spit. Back on topic.

[ledmitter_nli]

Thanks for the kind sentiments dc38 and everyone else. Again, I would like to apologize to all of you for derailing the thread with my rants and to fyrstormer, who I may have been a little too hard on. If it makes you feel any better, I too have been harassed by a few cops when I was younger. In my late teens and early twenties I lost count how many times my car was tossed and I was patted down for apparently no reason since I never got charged with anything. Even as an LEO occasionally I get major attitude from my brethren but 99.9% try real hard to do the right thing day in and day out.
All right, enough hugs and swapping spit. Back on topic.

flashlight_nut, incoming PM.

[fyrstormer]

There is no point in me giving a full-length explanation at this point, so I'll just say: my opinion of the police is not the result of being young and discontented -- in fact my job as a consultant for a defense contractor makes me pretty well invested in the status-quo -- instead it is the result of consistently having negative experiences with the police, including when I was the victim. I go out of my way to be helpful or at least unobtrusive, which I guess makes me look suspicious. It's easy to say my experiences were outliers, but when all of my experiences are supposedly outliers, that excuse rings hollow.

One specific post I want to address: fishndad, I was not the kid who teased other kids on the playground and then hid behind the teachers. I was the kid who got harassed as a sport almost every day, and the teachers occasionally joined in when they were sufficiently amused. The typical response from the administrators was to tell me to "stop attracting negative attention." So, not quite the same as you surmised.

I'm done here; have a nice thread.

[TEEJ]

There is no point in me giving a full-length explanation at this point, so I'll just say: my opinion of the police is not the result of being young and discontented -- in fact my job as a consultant for a defense contractor makes me pretty well invested in the status-quo -- instead it is the result of consistently having negative experiences with the police, including when I was the victim. I go out of my way to be helpful or at least unobtrusive, which I guess makes me look suspicious. It's easy to say my experiences were outliers, but when all of my experiences are supposedly outliers, that excuse rings hollow.

One specific post I want to address: fishndad, I was not the kid who teased other kids on the playground and then hid behind the teachers. I was the kid who got harassed as a sport almost every day, and the teachers occasionally joined in when they were sufficiently amused. The typical response from the administrators was to tell me to "stop attracting negative attention." So, not quite the same as you surmised.

I'm done here; have a nice thread.

Hmmmm.

I DO see where the problem lies.

The evidence points to a particular personal attribute that leads to this sort of thing. Very unfortunate. Fyrstormer, please, be careful out there, and condolences.

I HATE bullies, and, wish I had been there when you had been harassed. You would NOT have been when I was there.

-------------------------------------------------


So, yeah, the tactical value of a light for a trained concealed carry situation is very high. It gives options you wouldn't otherwise have. A Non-Tactical UI, in a tactical scenario, is a hindrance, and a potential liability in a SHTF scenario.

[fishndad]

I do appolagize for refering to you as antagonistec and the situation you describe at the bus stop would piss off anyone.
I hope you can forgive my careless uninformed comment.

[dc38]

I do appolagize for refering to you as antagonistec and the situation you describe at the bus stop would piss off anyone.
I hope you can forgive my careless uninformed comment.

I was more afraid to lose my flashlight than i was pissed off lol...it was very inconvenient and annoying at the very least. I just think that I'll be sorry for someone else for not filing some kind of complaint against this guy...Let's hope the next person he antagonizes has less tolerance and the knowledge to do as NLI instructed me

[TEEJ]

TRAINING is so important. Especially when - as a profession - LEO are so under the microscope/gun at the same time. ANYONE can have a bad day/slip up and let someone "have it" verbally or even physically if buttons are pushed.

Its never condoned of course, but, its like medical malpractice. Everyone knows a doctor is a human being, and that humans err. BUT, if they DO make a mistake, they do NOT "get away with it". They are raked over the coals, and drawn and quartered in court. (Drawn and Courted?)

In some professions, you are not allowed to make a mistake, ever, period. This is of course unrealistic, and yet, is the reality of it.


My feeling is that people who choose such a profession MUST know where the bar is, and how high it is.

To that end, there are people who check on the activity around that bar, and see if anyone tried to sneak under it. These people who pass the bar are called lawyers. They get money from the ones who go under the bar, and give 60% of it to the people who set the bar the guy went under.

[zenbeam]

NOTHING always works 100% of the time. Real life is like that. What deters one guy infuriates another, and so forth. What IS consistent though, is the TENDENCY for conflicts involving potential victimization to deescalate when the attacker perceives the victim as potentially aware of his surroundings/harder to take by surprise, and/or when the target shows evidence of also being potentially capable of counter measures/potential danger to the attacker.

Just because you HAVE a gun doesn't mean you have to use it. Just because you have a light doesn't mean you have to use it. Both give you options though you would not have without them. You just need to be able to choose what is appropriate for the situation.


For me, I think walking confidently and with purpose, while looking around/showing situational awareness, deters attacks by those looking for targets of opportunity.


That's the FIRST line of defense.

There goes that nail on the head! I think TEEJ truly is a carpenter!

When I replied earlier in this thread and mentioned having a background in martial arts training and not wanting to carry a concealed weapon (handgun) - I also referenced "situational awareness" and what I was trying to say was that the training heightened my situational awareness and as a result, I am less likely to need to defend myself. I could probably write a couple of paragraphs going on about that, but TEEJ has succinctly summarized the meat of the meaning.

Anyone and everyone can and will benefit, from a self defense standpoint (and in many other unforeseen ways), by carrying themselves in the manner TEEJ described. I'm sure many of you know this is common advice from LEO or other safety minded organizations to civilians, but take it seriously. Carry yourself like you are prepared and if you carry something with you, let the confidence in knowing that you have it and can use it show in your demeanor - and it will. Appear confident, not cocky. Feel capable and others will sense it.

And also... use your instincts. Yes, instincts. If an area or place doesn't "feel" right, it isn't. Don't go there. If a group of people or a person seems odd or gives you a "weird" feeling, even makes you feel scared... you are! Don't laugh... you should pay attention to yourself and get out of there.

Be the ball.

[ledmitter_nli]

^^^ Yup. Situational awareness and getting off the X will keep you out of most iffy situations.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ead.php?336718

[ledmitter_nli]

For those interested in additional reading about defensive applications for flashlights (with pro's and some con's)

POLICE Magazine - How to Use a Strobing Flashlight - Article
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Pat...lashlight.aspx
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Pat...ht/Page/2.aspx



(The pic of the attacker blinded by a bright light actually came from this PoliceMag article)

"When those who have no life are no longer being fed and cared for by Uncle Sugar, they will roam the streets looking for victims to feed upon. We already see the vacant glassy eyes staring out at us from those who have lost the will to live."

Zombies!

[prof student]

So, out of curiosity, what all does everyone carry (flashlight wise) for this purpose?

[ledmitter_nli]

So, out of curiosity, what all does everyone carry (flashlight wise) for this purpose?

Something with at least 2,000 lumens. Enough to *force* someone to yield looking anywhere within its cone (at near range).

[lightfooted]

So, out of curiosity, what all does everyone carry (flashlight wise) for this purpose?

Usually my Surefire C2 modded with XM-L emitter and 17670 or my newly acquired SWM V11R.

[flashlight nut]

So, out of curiosity, what all does everyone carry (flashlight wise) for this purpose?

A Surefire LX2 clipped inside my front pocket for a true momentary only UI with an HDS 170T clipped to my belt for back up and general use. Both oppossite side to my firearm. FYI, even if you don't carry a firearm the flashlight should be deployed and operated with opposite hand for defensive purposes.

[Xacto]

Surefire G2X for the 200lumen brightness, Surefire 6PD with Wolf Eyes Dropin, well... for everything else.

Cheers
Thorsten

[jamesb]

I'm running a Fenix PD31 light on my custom build I did.



James please resize your image to no larger than 800 X 800 pixels - Norm

EDIT: Resized photo