I love incandescent flashlight much more than LED flashlights,how about you?

[LGT]

I enjoy my incans, currently owning three E2e variants with LF and stock bulbs, a G2 w/ P60, and having owned an M6, multiple A2 Aviators, and E1e's. The thing I love most about them, aside from the intangible joy in torturing filaments and the connection to our flashlight roots is the fact that they have pushed the LED manufacturers to pursue the "pure" light that incans provide when driven properly. Nichia, with the 083, 119, and 219 have personally taken the lead here, and are coming closer every year to providing as natural a light source as possible with higher and higher available output. Sometimes a technology peaks, with the limits of size, power source, etc. and that's where I feel incans are. That's not a bad thing, I own the ones that I do for what they provide, same as my LED's. A place, use, and appreciation for both. The plethora of choices available in both formats is amazing, and as was said above, It's a good time to be a flashaholic...

Well said. Though I'm fully aware of the limitations of my SF incans, even with the LF bulbs that can run on rcr batteries. I just can't bring myself to change these to an LED format, no matter how high the CRI.In spite of owning forty or so LED's and only six incans' I much prefer the incan color. Can't put my finger on why, or explain in technical terms why. But they just seem different, no matter how high the CRI of LED's

[LuxLuthor]

I've got two Nichia 119 Haiku's right now and several other lights with 219's in them, but the tint that does it the best for me is a 219 which is now in my V10R Ti, and I suppose that for the 5000k fans would be a touch too warm, but it is only just so slightly warm in comparison with my Haiku's that some may not notice it without direct comparison. My guess would be that it's somewhere between 3500-4500k, but for the time being it's my absolute favorite and I find all my other lights, enjoyable as they are to use, to be a compromise.

Going back to the tube amp analogies, they've always been my preference for both essential tonality and feel, not to mention dynamic interaction, and it took ages before I was finally able to plug into a non-tube processor and actually get the feeling that tubes were at work. The specs say there's distortion and my ears just say "Yeah".

Where would I find a light with one of these?

[run4jc]

Where would I find a light with one of these?

I'm assuming you mean the 119 or 219, not the tube amp?

McGizmo High CRI Haiku found HERE

Malkoff Nichia drop ins HERE

PM sent

[LuxLuthor]

Thanks very very much to run4jc and kaichu dento for their help and generous offers. I very much agree that you cannot just go by the numbers or ratings. There is a wide variety of incan colors based on the bulb make, model, voltage, reflector, etc. Same goes for LED's, where there is variability even within a batch/bin of the same make/model. I think I should just get one of the Malkoff's to see how it does look in a number of practical scenarios, and am thinking that this 200 lumen model would be best?

I'm sure McGizmo's Haiku would be sublimely excellent, but starting with a $69 drop-in seems to be a worthwhile "toe in the water."

[run4jc]

Thanks very very much to run4jc and kaichu dento for their help and generous offers. I very much agree that you cannot just go by the numbers or ratings. There is a wide variety of incan colors based on the bulb make, model, voltage, reflector, etc. Same goes for LED's, where there is variability even within a batch/bin of the same make/model. I think I should just get one of the Malkoff's to see how it does look in a number of practical scenarios, and am thinking that this 200 lumen model would be best?

I'm sure McGizmo's Haiku would be sublimely excellent, but starting with a $69 drop-in seems to be a worthwhile "toe in the water."

You are most welcome. I agree with your idea, and your choice of initial drop in. I sent a long, rambling PM to you for further information! Good luck!

[Brigadier]

Looking at those drop ins, they do not list the lumens rating of the M61L, LL or LLL. Any idea on what they are?

[run4jc]

Looking at those drop ins, they do not list the lumens rating of the M61L, LL or LLL. Any idea on what they are?

IIRC, 150, 100 and around 60...

[LuxLuthor]

You are most welcome. I agree with your idea, and your choice of initial drop in. I sent a long, rambling PM to you for further information! Good luck!

Curses! M61 219 On Backorder.

[scout24]

Curses x2! I was talking to run4jc this morning about being ready to pull the trigger on one...

[Chrontius]

...

I can't rely on numbers. They give a nice reference to start with, but the visual is what matters to me. Forgive me for drifting back to the audio discussion, but 'back in the day', numbers guys would have ripped a tube amp to shreds (verbally) for the high 'total harmonic distortion' figures, yet they remained the choice of many a discerning listener.

...

On head-fi, a particular headphone called the Bowers & Wilkins P5 is inspiring this with amusing frequency. They're not flat-sounding, they don't reproduce sounds sent up their cable with digital precision, and people who haven't ever given them a listen tend to hold strong opinions about them.

People who've tried them tend to either love them, or just think "They're not for me". The strong feelings have this peculiar way of going away...

[LuxLuthor]

On head-fi, a particular headphone called the Bowers & Wilkins P5 is inspiring this with amusing frequency. They're not flat-sounding, they don't reproduce sounds sent up their cable with digital precision, and people who haven't ever given them a listen tend to hold strong opinions about them.

People who've tried them tend to either love them, or just think "They're not for me". The strong feelings have this peculiar way of going away...

On that note, I'll stick with my Sennheiser HD-800's & Cree OBH-21 Headphone amp. They are just down the street from me here in CT.

[zoulas]

Its like comparing records to cd's. There are a few record hold-outs out there, most of which have a large investment in records, that claim the sound is 'warmer', 'more realistic', etc. At the end of the day, that's a bunch of nonsense. The CD is better than the record many times over. Same for the LED over Incan's. Incan is dead , 100 + year old technology. LED will also be outdated one day. Right now however, its the best thing that happened to the flashlight.

[run4jc]

Its like comparing records to cd's. There are a few record hold-outs out there, most of which have a large investment in records, that claim the sound is 'warmer', 'more realistic', etc. At the end of the day, that's a bunch of nonsense. The CD is better than the record many times over. Same for the LED over Incan's. Incan is dead , 100 + year old technology. LED will also be outdated one day. Right now however, its the best thing that happened to the flashlight.

Interesting - it is not always wise to deal in absolutes. And calling one's opinion "nonsense" in a friendly, spirited and enjoyable discussion won't make many friends here... just sayin'.

As the sampling rate of CDs continues to increase, they will continue to more closely approach a true analog of the audio sine wave, but they aren't there yet.

As the tint of LEDs continues to be improved and refined, it may someday replicate the warmth that so many enjoy from an incan. As has been mentioned, technology marches on and we all benefit. But many prefer the warmth of the incan.

Don't misunderstand - I haven't played an album in (literally) decades - and out of my 80 or so lights, only 3 of them are incandescent. But those who prefer EITHER deserve the respect of not associating a description of "nonsense" with their choices...

[scout24]

Out of curiosity, zoulas, do you own any quality incandescent lights? What are you basing your opinion on? I'm just curious what your frame of reference is.

[fishndad]

Out of curiosity, zoulas, do you own any quality incandescent lights? What are you basing your opinion on? I'm just curious what your frame of reference is.

Well Zoulas you did it, there 1 step closer to snaring you into there Incan trap.

Oh i know that trap well becouse im sitting on my couch with my Solarforce L2 Host.
Waiting for the mailman to deliver something called a ...Lumens Factory IMR-9 500...and some AW IMR16340 550 mAh IMR CR123s

[LGT]

Its like comparing records to cd's. There are a few record hold-outs out there, most of which have a large investment in records, that claim the sound is 'warmer', 'more realistic', etc. At the end of the day, that's a bunch of nonsense. The CD is better than the record many times over. Same for the LED over Incan's. Incan is dead , 100 + year old technology. LED will also be outdated one day. Right now however, its the best thing that happened to the flashlight.

It's an opinion, not a fact, that LED's are better then incans. Depends on what one prefers. At times, I would much rather use my SF incans because I'm looking for a specific tint to illuminate what I know I'll be looking at. Just as other times I'll choose an LED because I may have to use a light for days or weeks with no chance to recharge batteries while using with a lumensfactory dropin, or burning through a lot of cr123"s with the original SF bulb. There really is no "better." It comes down to what one prefers. Also, please list all of the incan lights you own and say why you think LED's are so much better.

[fishndad]

Its true my opinion is not legit or with merit.
Many of us have never seen a powerfull incan.I have never seen more than 20 lumen spilling from an incan flashlight.

So ive taken the challenge and soon will be able to decide for myself whats a better choice for me.
Although im sure i will love both and find an application for both.
Not better or worse just different.
If 500 lumen of incan light colors the nights landscape better and more naturally than an led, ill be the first one to admit it.

[fishndad]

This is actually a contentious and subjective point. Most of the incans in use today are actually halogen (traditional incans are banned in many countries, including Australia). Halogens have a Ra of 94-96, which is very close to the 92 typical CRI of high CRI LEDs. About depth of field, it's a subjective point and for my purposes, a ~8000K bluish HID allows me to see the furtherest, as most of the light is reflected back as opposed to being absorbed by browns/greens etc.

really why do they say incandescent on the pack and the others say hallogen on the pack.if there the same that is.
not arguing with you im curious .

[Brigadier]

Wow, only 9 posts and then this?

[run4jc]

Wow, only 9 posts and then this?

EXACTLY...

[CamoNinja]

I got 2 mag chargers today, one with a WA bulb. I have'nt used one in 10-15yrs. I actually miss using them. Love the tint.

[Darien]

I got 2 mag chargers today, one with a WA bulb. I have'nt used one in 10-15yrs. I actually miss using them. Love the tint.

I like mine I've had for several years now. Been thinking of upgrading to the FM reflector and slug recently. I replaced the pack once.
The sorry ol' WA1160 I've been running just won't burn out!

[LuxLuthor]

Here's some of what you missed, and that I'm still enjoying.

[CamoNinja]

Holy moly Lux. I could use a few spares lol.

[BVH]

Geeze Lux, are you going into retail sales!!

[kaichu dento]

Its like comparing records to cd's. There are a few record hold-outs out there, most of which have a large investment in records, that claim the sound is 'warmer', 'more realistic', etc. At the end of the day, that's a bunch of nonsense. The CD is better than the record many times over. Same for the LED over Incan's. Incan is dead , 100 + year old technology. LED will also be outdated one day. Right now however, its the best thing that happened to the flashlight.

Wow, only 9 posts and then this?

Yeah, really. Incredibly he just showed up, and now knows enough to weigh in on incan being dead, just like the guys who were wrong about audio tubes - manufacturing had to be re-started in that field.

I know the list is absolutely endless, but a couple things that have been 'trumped' by newer technology, and yet refused to go away are horses and bicycles, the aforementioned tubes and incandescent lighting, living in the country and growing your own food, going barefoot and knowing that you don't know everything.

Your post as it stands has a very strong "came in from under the bridge" smell to it and needs to be tempered with a little humility.

[zoulas]

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[scout24]

In my admittedly brief time here, I've noticed that it's a very passionate community with diverse opinions and feelings, with room for everyone. I occasionally wander into "Fixed Lighting", for example, and see names that are new to me after 3 1/2 years... There's room for differing opinions, and sub-forums for everyone's tastes. I wouldn't come into your house and give you a hard time about your choices of carpet or furniture, you know? Wander with an open mind, respect the tastes of others, learn and enjoy as I have, and you may be pleasantly suprised on what you develop an appreciation for.

[run4jc]

In my admittedly brief time here, I've noticed that it's a very passionate community with diverse opinions and feelings, with room for everyone. I occasionally wander into "Fixed Lighting", for example, and see names that are new to me after 3 1/2 years... There's room for differing opinions, and sub-forums for everyone's tastes. I wouldn't come into your house and give you a hard time about your choices of carpet or furniture, you know? Wander with an open mind, respect the tastes of others, learn and enjoy as I have, and you may be pleasantly suprised on what you develop an appreciation for.

Well said - well said -

Sorry if I offended anyone.

It's a great place to be a part of....

[PCC]

I'm a runtime person. For this very reason I've abandoned incandescent handheld lights almost altogether. The remaining holdouts are all Surefires that I'm slowly devising plans to LED-ify. As far as tints goes, until recently I've never really cared about tints, so long as they're not warm tints, as our minds compensate for subtle variances in tints and, to my eyes, most of my cool white lights register as white. It's when I compare two beams side-by-side that I can see the differences. That has changed, however, because of the Nichia 219. With the 219 I literally have seen the light. I cannot stand warm tint LEDs because all those years of quickly fading alkaline D-cells in my old Mag 2D or Mini-Mags has taught me that when the color of the light turns to amber that it's time to change the batteries. It gives me a headache trying to resist instinctively changing the batteries on a warm tint LED light so I avoid them.

As far as high power incandescents are concerned, I agree that incandescents are still kings in terms of ultimate output, but, I don't care about crazy output. My brightest light puts out 650 OTF lumens and I rarely use it. Incandescents make better throwers because they can be collimated better, but, my 650 OTF lumens light, which is not specifically a thrower, can out throw my M4 due to raw output alone and it'll do it for three times longer and it can be dimmed down for close in work. I've handled a few hotwire incans and they're impressive. They're just not for me.