Akaline Battery Leakage/Usage Poll (Part 2)

[Lynx_Arc]

How does everyone feel about carbon zinc in remotes? Basic remotes without lights at least. Do these leak less than alkaline? Most of my remotes are extremely low drain and do not have lights or anything. The remotes with lights or other types of remotes obviously use more batteries and would require different types. My TV came with a remote and batteries that are obviously carbon zinc and after more than 6 months the remote shows no drain at all when batteries are put on a quick tester and I use the remote often. Obviously carbon batteries are more than adequate for this application. The batteries are dated 2013 so I will replace them a month or 2 before they are set to expire to be safe even if they are not dead. I probably have more batteries than I can use so I can afford to replace them when getting into the danger zone.

Two problems with carbon zinc....
1)leaks are a LOT worse
2)warranty if they do leak may be non existant
As for their capacity probably half that of alkalines they are suitable for remotes but for clocks having to replace them 2-3 times more often may not be worth the savings. I use zinc carbon (heavy duty) only in my cheap $3 DMMs because occasionally I leave one on and drain the battery and alkalines cost about 4-5 times as much so far I have done that 3 times so I have spend $1.88 on heavy duty cells for 4 batteries vs $2.50 for one alkaline 9v.

[yliu]

I had no alkalines leaking since I got into flashlights and started to take care of batteries.

[JemR]

I think the problem is trying to figure out what mistreatment or abuse batteries can handle without leaking. I suspect the battery companies know more than they let out and perhaps leakage is higher than people realize but since maybe less than 10% of people force the battery companies to pay for the damage by taking advantage of their warranty and demanding satisfaction the battery companies get off easy. If like I have said only 10% pursue a claim then the cost of leakage is perhaps even less than 10% as I would suspect many get the brush off in the end getting maybe free batteries, if everyone that had an alkaline leak contacted the battery companies and gave them a huge hassle for the next 5 years I think suddenly they would put more effort into making them less leak prone.

Yes, Lynx Arc. Your about right with all of that. Most leakages are unreported and claimed on. Nearly all of them I suspect. If we all complained things would change. I fairly sure I know it would if alkaline was suddenly the only chemistry available and all our phones, laptops and iPad's had to ran on them. In less than 5 minutes probably. But with most people if there is a leak in a low cost item, they will simply bin it all and start again. “Throwaway Society” Opportunity to buy something new. That does let the makers off the hook, that is true. Inappropriate handling on route to the consumer and then by the consumer must be a factor in many. I have never just thrown packs into the bottom of a shopping trolley, then lumped bags of potatoes and bottles of drink on top of them. Unfortunately, with the varying qualities of batteries it's very difficult to calculate the abuse thresholds you hope for, I think. There is also a financial aspect in regards to packaging of cause. Better packaging means higher price per battery. Enough to mean many people won't want to buy them, they will always go for the very cheapest. The other brands need to compete so it all stays the same. I never put an alkaline battery anywhere near a flashlight. Even with my small AAA lights I put in L92's (voted in the poll). Extra cost. Yes, but for me they are worth it to know that when I really need the light, or lend it, it will have a far, far better chance of working. I make that decision before I buy a light as factored in running costs. I'm sure most of us do. For many though, the power source is the last thing they think about. They buy something new then scramble around in cupboards for batteries. After thought. Maybe the whole pricing of batteries was wrong from the beginning. If they were, say 20%, 30% or more in price, they might be better designed and made, and sent in better packaging. Or, more likely, most of the makers would just ended up having made extra profit on them.

[Lynx_Arc]

Yes, Lynx Arc. Your about right with all of that. Most leakages are unreported and claimed on. Nearly all of them I suspect. If we all complained things would change. I fairly sure I know it would if alkaline was suddenly the only chemistry available and all our phones, laptops and iPad's had to ran on them. In less than 5 minutes probably. But with most people if there is a leak in a low cost item, they will simply bin it all and start again. “Throwaway Society” Opportunity to buy something new. That does let the makers off the hook, that is true. Inappropriate handling on route to the consumer and then by the consumer must be a factor in many. I have never just thrown packs into the bottom of a shopping trolley, then lumped bags of potatoes and bottles of drink on top of them. Unfortunately, with the varying qualities of batteries it's very difficult to calculate the abuse thresholds you hope for, I think. There is also a financial aspect in regards to packaging of cause. Better packaging means higher price per battery. Enough to mean many people won't want to buy them, they will always go for the very cheapest. The other brands need to compete so it all stays the same. I never put an alkaline battery anywhere near a flashlight. Even with my small AAA lights I put in L92's (voted in the poll). Extra cost. Yes, but for me they are worth it to know that when I really need the light, or lend it, it will have a far, far better chance of working. I make that decision before I buy a light as factored in running costs. I'm sure most of us do. For many though, the power source is the last thing they think about. They buy something new then scramble around in cupboards for batteries. After thought. Maybe the whole pricing of batteries was wrong from the beginning. If they were, say 20%, 30% or more in price, they might be better designed and made, and sent in better packaging. Or, more likely, most of the makers would just ended up having made extra profit on them.

One thing I just thought of reading your post was some of the reasons for leakage.... like excessive heat and mishandling makes you rethink about putting them in something you aren't going to treat with kid gloves. Imagine forgetting your flashlight in the car on a hot summer day or dropping it on the ground from 4 feet in the air and cringing thinking.... oh no!... I better replace these alkaline batteries they are bound to leak now I have mistreated them. Makes you wonder how much abuse they really can really take in use without incident.

[45/70]

I checked the first, and last three. I wasn't sure that would work, but it seemed to.

I have very few alkaline cells leak anymore, but then again I really don't use very many. I use a few that come packaged with items, but most of those I give away to people I don't particularly like. OK, not so much that, but I give most of them away.

I'm mostly NiMH/Li-Ion these days, the same as the last poll (Part 1?). For lights and such that are tucked away, I use lithium primary cells. For some devices that won't tolerate NiMH due to voltage requirements, I use NiZn, or sometimes lithium primary. "9 Volt" batteries are all 8.4 Volt NiMH.

The only alkaline cells I use regularly, are button cells. I'm still looking into NiMH button cells for these applications, but am not really sure whether it'd be worth it, or not. I have had alkaline button cells leak around the gasket, but it seems to be fairly rare.

Dave

[Lynx_Arc]

I checked the first, and last three. I wasn't sure that would work, but it seemed to.

Theoretically you could check every single box in the poll, but that would tend to defeat the purpose of it as the first section is the most important while the next two sections is to kind of get a feel for how people are reacting to new options compared to alkalines.

The only alkaline cells I use regularly, are button cells. I'm still looking into NiMH button cells for these applications, but am not really sure whether it'd be worth it, or not. I have had alkaline button cells leak around the gasket, but it seems to be fairly rare.

Dave

I have found over the years that button cells can leak but there is so little stuff in them that the damage is minimized. I have had things messed up by them but the damage is less than half of what happens with normal sized cells (AAAA and larger). As for using nimh for button cells unless you are using them up really fast it isn't worth it as the capacity of them is a big drawback along with cost when you can buy button cells for 10 cents each or less. I have myself looked for devices powered by coin cells instead of button cells even though more expensive they have a lot more capacity to them and 10 years later still have considerably capacity left to them.... no leaks either.

[JemR]

One thing I just thought of reading your post was some of the reasons for leakage.... like excessive heat and mishandling makes you rethink about putting them in something you aren't going to treat with kid gloves. Imagine forgetting your flashlight in the car on a hot summer day or dropping it on the ground from 4 feet in the air and cringing thinking.... oh no!... I better replace these alkaline batteries they are bound to leak now I have mistreated them. Makes you wonder how much abuse they really can really take in use without incident.

The bag of potatoes thing, that got you thinking? I could have used any hard vegetable, carrots, corn, frozen pea's etc. But not the tomato. Because batteries should be treated like fresh tomatoes. Handled with care, kept in a cool dry place and things not dumped on top of them! Joking aside. Yes, cars are a problem, no doubt. I have read another thread about emergency flashlights kept in cars. The temperature changes can be vast in some places, summer to winter. I think if someone has to keep changing them out or checking them because of the fear they may leak in those situations (rightly IMO), it's probably better to get lithium or NiMh in the first place. Just to avoid most of the worry. And on that dark road if the car breaks down the extra investment will all be worth it.

[tickled]

I had a white box of D-cell Procells sitting in the coolest part of the house, forgotten for the past 10 years (expiration 2013). One of the cells had leaked. That must have been the cell that was dropped and run over by the forklift driver.

[JemR]

I had a white box of D-cell Procells sitting in the coolest part of the house, forgotten for the past 10 years (expiration 2013). One of the cells had leaked. That must have been the cell that was dropped and run over by the forklift driver.

They have done very well tickled. Perhaps the tomato type thing works. Hang on though. I thought Procells were one of the better regular Duracell products in a different branding for bulk. Where did you get some with a 11 year expiry, 10 years ago? Are you sure they're alkaline?

[Shadowww]

procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.

[JemR]

procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.

Thank's Shadowww . That's clarified what I half thought.

[Lynx_Arc]

I just found a 2010 duracell AAA that leaked in a cheap LED light that I forgot about. Luckily a little vinegar and a Qtip and a fingernail file cleaned up the mess and polished the spring. The problem is the alkaline substance almost always takes the plating off whatever it coats essentially making at times some of them needing polishing/sanding in the future.

[Sub_Umbra]

procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.

"Believe it or not, the technical specs for Duracell Coppertop and Duracell Procell batteries are identical. Duracell Procell batteries are Duracell’s line of batteries designed for industrial, professional use. Duracell Procell batteries are packaged for the volume user. Procell batteries are not sold in blister packs. A fresh Duracell Procell battery is typically charged a bit higher (a fresh 9V Procell battery is typically at 9.5 volts or higher) than the Duracell Coppertop."

Emphasis mine.

From:
http://www.medicbatteries.com/durace...cell-batteries

Identical? If "...A fresh Duracell Procell battery is typically charged a bit higher (a fresh 9V Procell battery is typically at 9.5 volts or higher) than the Duracell Coppertop..." how can they be identical if one is charged "...a bit higher..." than the other? If these guys are right, it's the SPECS that are identical, not the batteries. Mysterioso.

[JemR]

Very interesting stuff, Sub Umbra. I have just read the linked page a few times, and I don't really know what to make of it at all. Confusing marketing I think. I'm still not sure if they ”believe it or not” that the batteries perform differently. Different clothes and different names, Yes. But are they produced the same or not, it's not really clear. Then the part you highlighted. “...is typically charged a bit higher...”. I may be wrong. But I take the word “typically”, in that context, to mean most but not all. Similar to “usually”. Which would make it a little odd. As on that they would think to have a battery with the voltage you wish is a bit of a lucky dip.

[Marc999]

From old Maglites to remote controls to battery operated clocks, I've had alkaline batteries leak. In fact, the Maglite was toast, I just couldn't open it at all.

Although it would be nice to espouse the advantage of nimh (eneloop) to family members, the reality is my siblings have young children who tend to pry open anything and everything. Also, my siblings unfortunately can't be bothered to recharge, so they just keep on buying alkaline batts. Ahh well.

[n3eg]

I am holding an AA alkaline. The warning says: "Battery may leak chemicals if opened, recharged, installed backwards, exposed to fire, or mixed with other battery types." No mention at all of overdischarging. Of course, when all your devices are run flat, and all your devices have 3 cells, you will have that 1 in 3 leakage rate. The average noob doesn't know this, and therefore blames the batteries for leaking rather than running flat.

Of course, there were always those yellow and blue Ray-O-Leak batteries from our childhood, where every one of our toys had at least one brown battery contact...that green paper tape made a nice electrolyte wick.

I have also seen batteries of every type leak except for lithium, and that's probably because they are in paranoid protection circuits.

[SaraAB87]

From old Maglites to remote controls to battery operated clocks, I've had alkaline batteries leak. In fact, the Maglite was toast, I just couldn't open it at all.

Although it would be nice to espouse the advantage of nimh (eneloop) to family members, the reality is my siblings have young children who tend to pry open anything and everything. Also, my siblings unfortunately can't be bothered to recharge, so they just keep on buying alkaline batts. Ahh well.

My family has energizer rechargable batteries, something tells me they are not exactly ready for another rechargable battery experience. The energizer batteries sit there unused and I now see packs of alkaline batteries around. Considering my very bad experience with energizer rechargables.... If i had that experience again without doing the research I probably wouldn't want rechargable batteries again either!

So many things take batteries that are easily forgotten about, even in a house without kids there is still so much, even worse if you have kids.

Heck after a disaster with my thermostat where it shut off one day in the middle of winter I realized the thermostat takes AA batteries and I didn't even know it had batteries in it. I am lucky those thermostat batteries didn't leak!

[Bullzeyebill]

I voted paranoid re Alkaline usage though I still use them and monitor them closely. A set of them ruined one of my light meters (LM631) awhile back, and I tried Eneloops in a new one, but they did not last long voltage wise, so I went back to Alkalines, but I do monitor then very closely.

Bill

[jorgen]

I thought a leaky AA destroyed my Nitecore D30, and vinegar did nothing to help. Finally I bought a small tube of Deoxit. After one application, the light would turn on and after a second, a few weeks later the light worked normally. Now I run it on one 14500 and a dummy cell. No more alkys for me.

[Lynx_Arc]

So far it appears about 1/3 of the participants in the poll haven't had a lot of problems with alkalines leaking (1 in 100+). I wish I was in that 1/3 as I recently found a cheap 3AA task force LED light had a damaged switch from a leaky rayovac battery. Luckily I had parts left from another of the lights that was dropped and broken I swapped out the whole spring/switch/boot assembly. I won't bother worrying about it as the lights cost me about $4 each and only 1 of about 4 I have in service was damaged. The odd thing is two of the lights are outdoors one in the garage and one in the car and neither of those have had leakage it is the one in the house that had not experienced 110 degree heat (or more in the case of the car).

[Lynx_Arc]

I found some alkalines that have leaked in some of my dads old stuff generic no name brand and threw away a D cell rayovac that once leaked in my 3D dorcy LED light. I would clean it once a month or two and was using it in a 1D energizer accent lantern but got tired of cleaning it more and more often even if it still had almost 1.5v to it. I will try and bump this thread once a month till the poll expires on Jan 1. I am hoping for 100 people to participate fully in it I think last count it was 77 so far.

[awyeah]

Here's a question for you battery experts - can Lithium batteries like Energizer Ultimate Lithiums leak like Alkalines? I just found a couple of leaky AAAs in my ZTS MINI-MBT, and I was *not* pleased.

[Lynx_Arc]

Here's a question for you battery experts - can Lithium batteries like Energizer Ultimate Lithiums leak like Alkalines? I just found a couple of leaky AAAs in my ZTS MINI-MBT, and I was *not* pleased.

I've never heard of anyone having leak problems with energizer lithiums primary AA/AAA batteries.

[Lynx_Arc]

I just bought a few of these select brand 9v alkalines and one of 4 of them was leaking. I also have a duracell 9v dated 2010 I never used that is swelling up inside and the voltage has dropped to 8.4v. Alkaline 9v batteries have gotten to the point of insanity in price sometimes $3.50 EACH in a 2 pack ($7 at Walmart for Duracells). The problem is I have to have them because the smoke detector uses them in this rental place. I bought these awhile back because they were 2/$1 and 3 out of 4 were good. The advantage of 9v is they are double sealed so leaks tend to cause minimal damage compared so single cell alkaline packaging. Perhaps they need to reduce the capacity of alkalines 10% and double package them to contain leaks better.

On another note.... 56 people have properly chosen from my percentage leakage in the survey. There is 2 months left I am hoping to get 100 people to participate in that section but I have a feeling that isn't going to happen by January 1st.

[Lynx_Arc]

Less than a month for this poll to expire, I hope people don't have too many battery leaks over the holidays to ruin brand new gadgets and toys. I was looking at a thrift store and found a nice external flash for really cheap but when I opened it up to see the batteries in it the energizers had leaked ruining one of the contact plates on the battery hatch.
Remember to check your alkaline batteries in devices often.

[SaraAB87]

I have seen a leaky "energizer titanium" battery, however it was placed in a 4 battery device with regular alkalines so the cells were mixed. That is definitely a no no. I don't know what formula energizer titanium is, the energizer battery with the orange writing.

[Lynx_Arc]

I have seen a leaky "energizer titanium" battery, however it was placed in a 4 battery device with regular alkalines so the cells were mixed. That is definitely a no no. I don't know what formula energizer titanium is, the energizer battery with the orange writing.

I've had Energizer Titanium leak before for no reason at all they were not abused by me and still measured 1.5v

[LowLumen]

I use many more Eneloop now, but over the years have used many hundreds of alkaline from various brands (CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc. But most all Made in USA) Honestly I have seen evidence of leak but most were long beyond expire date and completely dead/forgotten. In normal usage my leak rate has been on order of 1-2%. So filled the survey according. They are still used in wall clocks, remotes, thermometers, weather station, some toys, etc. Moderate to heavy use stuff all has eneloop now.

[Lynx_Arc]

I use many more Eneloop now, but over the years have used many hundreds of alkaline from various brands (CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc. But most all Made in USA) Honestly I have seen evidence of leak but most were long beyond expire date and completely dead/forgotten. In normal usage my leak rate has been on order of 1-2%. So filled the survey according. They are still used in wall clocks, remotes, thermometers, weather station, some toys, etc. Moderate to heavy use stuff all has eneloop now.

According to the poll statistics so far you are falling right in the average between 1-4%.

[AIRASSAULT18B]

My wife forgot to take her usual EDC light on a trip once. So she went to the local WALMART & bought a mini led maglight that comes with Duracells. In less then two weeks on her trip the light would not come on any more so I checked it & the batteries leaked so much it had welded the batteries to the tube. No she did not leave it on. I called Duracell & the sent a check for the light & new batteries. By the way I contacted Maglight & they said that was new stock so age was not the problem. I have had several devices ruined over the yrs prior to the advent of the new NIMH rechareables. I will not use them in anything of high value & only keep a supply for emergency backup.