Akaline Battery Leakage/Usage Poll (Part 2)

I have decided to start another poll to ask the members here about their experience with
alkaline batteries. The former poll that was done 3 years ago is HERE if you want to read it.
I ask anyone who participates in the poll to post their experiences with alkaline batteries and discuss as they see fit, all observations and opinions are welcome (pro/con). I suggest that for the sake of the first section we preclude alkaline types that cannot be replaced by another type of battery chemistry in other words batteries that you are stuck with alkalines only as there is no alternative.

Here are the rules for the poll:
1)first section (1 in XX leakage) one choice per person please (4 options, 1 choice allowed)
2)second section (concerns) one choice per person please (3 options, 1 choice allowed)
3)third section (usage) choose any/all that applies (3 options, 3 choices allowed)

NOTE: You can choose up to 5 total choices in this Poll.

Back when I was using alkaline AAs and AAAs more frequently, probably about 1 in 3 leaked eventually. Of course I was keeping them around for a while after discharging to recycle them. Probably about 1 in 5 leaked eventually in devices when kept in them too long. I primarily used Duracell, Energizer, and Rayovac.

Now I basically just use Eneloops for everything that takes AA and AAA cells. They all (and I have well over 100) continue to work well. I store them charged, ready to use, so I can just switch out the depleted cells in a device with charged ones. I also keep them in sets of cells that only get used together and charged at the same time.

In January, I opened some packaged Energizer and Duracell (3/03) D batteries, 12 of them from the late '90s/early 2000s and only a single Energizer had leaked, so not bad for roughly a dozen years sitting. They still tested pretty well!

I have had cheap Chinese remote batteries leak, over the years, sometimes ruining the device, but mostly I've been able to clean up the contacts.

I've removed all of the batteries from the remotes that I don't use often, so I do micro-manage things a bit and earlier in the year, I bought some new NiMH/Li-Ion chargers and batteries, so I'm kind of moving in that direction.

Chris

After looking at poll results I am getting the idea that some are not checking the percentage section options at all, remember the 4th option is either 1 in 250+ OR NONE at all. This option is basically IMO stating that you either think or have experienced such that the chances are very small to nonexistent.

One time I had new D size, Rayovac cells in a 2D maglite. Over a few months I'd put on the light occassionaly for a couple minutes to play with it (maybe 30 mins of use total with a 600mA load). One time I checked the cells, one leaked a little while the other was good. Open circuit voltage was over 1.5V on both cells. They were no way near to their expiry dates.

I'm using LSD NiMH's (Eneloops for AAA/AA, Tenergy Centura's for D) for anything high-power (flashlights (duh), cameras, and similar) and Lithium primaries for ultra-low-power devices where they last a long time, few months to over a year (wall clocks, remotes, DMM's)

So far it look like half the people that responded to the poll had an alkaline battery leak.
Remember the over 1 in 250 option ALSO includes NO leaks at all as I considered that high enough to be a non issue for most people even though even that one leak could end up costly.

Also, don't forget the 1 in 25 or more, as was the case for me.

We use mostly NiMH personally anymore but we go through lots of 9V and AA alkalines for body mics. We stopped buying batteries from hardware stores, drug stores and everywhere else where the whole staff doesn't know jack about batteries. All it takes is one part timer dropping a case while stocking or much worse, a forklift driver in a general merchandise warehouse dumping a whole pallet on the hard cement. NOTE: I don't have anything against part timers, forklift drivers or anyone who works in a retail store -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to let them touch any battery I'm paying for.

Years ago I switched to buying all my batteries only from vendors that make the sale of batteries their main business. These are folks who sell hundreds and hundreds of thousands of cells each year. I have run into incredible idiots running cash registers and stocking shelves. I do not buy cells anywhere that employs untrained individuals who could screw up my cells without even knowing what they did.

Whether you give it much thought or not, today's cells are very high tech and somewhat fragile. If you buy cells stocked by kids who are also stocking shelves with bleach and bags of potting soil you are looking for trouble. If CPFers put cells purchased that way into expensive lights they are looking for big trouble.

If your cells leaked ask yourself this question, "...Where did I buy those cells?..." To paraphrase Albert Einstein -- '...insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, always expecting a different result...' I think many think this way about batteries. If they leak buy from someone else! If you don't, how do you ever expect to find cells that don't leak? Of course bad things can happen even in organizations where everyone is up to speed on the handling of batteries but I firmly believe mishaps are much less frequent with specialists.

There are great batt suppliers advertising here on cpf.

We use Procells as the specs are a bit better than Coppertops. The alkys we use personally usually sit around 3-4 years before use (FIFO) so we would be considered a prime candidate for leakage when compared to most.

I'm in the 1 in 250+ OR NONE camp since I switched to a specialty house years and years ago. (Actually, I'm in the NONE camp)

As usual, YMMV.

Sub_Umbra said:

We use mostly NiMH personally anymore but we go through lots of 9V and AA alkalines for body mics. We stopped buying batteries from hardware stores, drug stores and everywhere else where the whole staff doesn't know jack about batteries. All it takes is one part timer dropping a case while stocking or much worse, a forklift driver in a general merchandise warehouse dumping a whole pallet on the hard cement. NOTE: I don't have anything against part timers, forklift drivers or anyone who works in a retail store -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to let them touch any battery I'm paying for. Years ago I switched to buying all my batteries only from vendors that make the sale of batteries their main business. These are folks who sell hundreds and hundreds of thousands of cells each year. I have run into incredible idiots running cash registers and stocking shelves. I do not buy cells anywhere that employs untrained individuals who could screw up my cells without even knowing what they did. Whether you give it much thought or not, today's cells are very high tech and somewhat fragile. If you buy cells stocked by kids who are also stocking shelves with bleach and bags of potting soil you are looking for trouble. If CPFers put cells purchased that way into expensive lights they are looking for big trouble. If your cells leaked ask yourself this question, "...Where did I buy those cells?..." To paraphrase Albert Einstein -- '...insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, always expecting a different result...' I think many think this way about batteries. If they leak buy from someone else! If you don't, how do you ever expect to find cells that don't leak? Of course bad things can happen even in organizations where everyone is up to speed on the handling of batteries but I firmly believe mishaps are much less frequent with specialists. There are great batt suppliers advertising here on cpf. We use Procells as the specs are a bit better than Coppertops. The alkys we use personally usually sit around 3-4 years before use (FIFO) so we would be considered a prime candidate for leakage when compared to most. I'm in the 1 in 250+ OR NONE camp since I switched to a specialty house years and years ago. (Actually, I'm in the NONE camp) As usual, YMMV.

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That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.

tickled said:

That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.

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I wouldn't say myth, but often I wonder if the people that have less leakage issues live in certain parts of the country or world. I think at times that batteries have a long way to travel to get where I am and at times are shipped in extreme weather along the way and rough roads and stored in warehouses with poor climate control.

tickled said:

That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.

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With one notable exception -- no leaky batteries. Try to stay focused on the Subject. (It's all about leaky batteries) That is no myth or a product of wishful thinking. This is not Rocket Surgery -- if you go to a restaurant and the food sucks don't eat there again. Call it whatever you want but I'm not one of the posters on this thread with leaky cells. I can deal with any fantasy you're predisposed to on this subject as long as I don't have to deal with leaky cells.

As as far as the wishful thinking goes I think buying cells that have been bumped around in an Ace Hardware or Walgreens warehouse by the untrained and handled like dish soap and charcoal it is totally unrealistic for one to expect that your cells will be handled unlike dish soap or charcoal. Now that's a great example of wishful thinking. To each his own.

This is not hypothetical. I do this. It works. It has worked for for me years. Call it whatever you like.

I use NiMh and Li-ion rechargeables since I hate variable costs.

Sure I've had Alks leak, but I'll take the blame because that's the one battery chemistry I could care less about and don't bother monitoring. If I spent half the time I do monitoring NiMh and especially Li-ion, an Alk would never leak on me.

Truth be told, since I'm low lumen enthusiast, an Alk will actually perform better than the rechargeable chemistries I'm using.

Sub_Umbra said:

With one notable exception -- no leaky batteries. That is no myth or a product of wishful thinking. This is not Rocket Surgery -- if you go to a restaurant and the food sucks don't eat there again. Call it whatever you want but I'm not one of the posters on this thread with leaky cells. I can deal with any fantasy you're predisposed to on this subject as long as I don't have to deal with leaky cells. As as far as the wishful thinking goes I think buying cells that have been bumped around in an Ace Hardware or Walgreens warehouse by the untrained and handled like dish soap and charcoal it is totally unrealistic for one to expect that your cells will be handled unlike dish soap or charcoal. Now that's wishful thinking. To each his own. This is not hypothetical. I do this. It works. It has worked for for me years. Call it whatever you like.

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And a rock to keep the tigers away? In the absence of anything more solid or empirical, it sounds a lot more like superstition.

Hello Tickled,

Actually SubUmbra has some pretty sound footing to support his "wishfull thinking" and "myths." Call a major manufacturer of alkaline cells and ask them how abusive handling and temperature effects their cells.

You can also run a test on this. Pickup 50 - 100 alkaline cells and toss them into the back of the trunk of your car. Once a month take them out and drop them on the pavement then put them back into the trunk. In about a year you should start to see some leaking.

The problem is that the manufacturers are trying to cram as much into the cell as they can. This makes them sensitive to jolting and bumping. Internal damage can lead to leaking. The biggest problem is with temperature extremes. Duracell recommends replacing batteries that are left in a vehicle at the end of the summer heat to avoid having them leak.

From Energizer...

13. What increases the possibility for alkaline battery leakage?

Typically alkaline batteries will not leak under normal storage and/or usage conditions. The potential for leakage is significantly increased however if the batteries are subjected to charging, mixing of battery chemistries, mixing of fresh and used batteries, physical damage, extended exposure to high temperature or deep discharged. Alkaline battery leakage is extremely caustic and contact with bare skin should be avoided. In the event that battery leakage comes in contact with your skin, flush the area for 15 minutes with copious amounts of water and seek medical attention.

The big question is what is "normal storage" and what causes "physical damage."

Tom

I have definitely had leaking alkaline cells. I had one just randomly leak while sitting in my battery box. It had a good date and was new or nearly brand new so it was not excessively discharged. Unfortunately it got all over some of my other batteries and I had to clean up the box which was a pain.

I apologize if I accidently double post but I also wanted to say that I would only buy batteries from stores that get a lot of foot traffic here. For example Kmart is a desert here and they don't rotate their stock well. They have some old duracell rechargable batteries sitting on the shelves that have probably been there for years, not good. I think they might be duracell 2500's which if I am not mistaken are very bad. I have been getting eneloops from Amazon but if I had to buy retail I would stick with Walmart or Target. I don't think I will have to buy batteries for a long time because I have so many now. Both stores here likely sell tons of batteries and therefore you are almost always guaranteed fresh batteries. I would avoid corner stores and the like for batteries, since its more likely batteries have sat for years in those stores, they are usually more expensive too.

One more thing, maxell batteries, avoid like the plague! I had a set of alkalines with a good date, never used and they leaked while in my box. I have seen other reports of the same thing happening to other people who have used them. The batteries were not counterfiet either as they came with a speaker dock that I bought. Based on my experience these batteries have a high potential of ruining your device.

tickled said:

And a rock to keep the tigers away? In the absence of anything more solid or empirical, it sounds a lot more like superstition.

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Perhaps you should start your own new thread about superstition since this is the first time that the topic has been broached in this thread. I have sited nothing even remotely superstitious in this thread. (Go ahead, quote me) I have sited reasons for all of my posted opinions and you have not condescended to contest even one of them. Argue with MY SUCCESS all you want.

In an attempt to answer you in the true vein of your post, perhaps the reason your cells leak is that someone has put a hex on them... My advice: buy some vinegar and some cotton swabs. You are going to need them. Don't concern yourself with where you bought them...that has nothing to do with it...that's just superstition...

I always figured it's a crap shoot to leave alkalines in something, but I feel the leaking has gotten worse. I keep a pack of Costco Kirkland AAs on hand for emergency stock and for trivial devices like remote controls and clocks. But just last week, I had to rescue 2 things, a Braun travel clock and one of my modded Streamlight 4AA LED lights. The batteries had been fine for probably at least a year in the devices, and probably sat on my shelf for another year or 2 prior to that, then poophluut, they leaked. And I still recall previous leaks in another modded Streamlight 4AA LED, a Maglight (D cell), a pocket radio (AAA cell), a TV remote - it seems like after 3-5 years, everything I have alkalines in has been leaked in. The percentage of failure may not be so high (I voted for 1-4%) but in the long term, it's damaging the majority of my devices and eventually will kill some of them, and I'm fed up now and moving everything AA/AAA to LSD NiMH or lithium AA/AAA. I'll keep a pack of alkalines only for emergencies or giveaways. Everything else is LiIon.

OK, lets get a little pointy and ask some questions here and get off on perhaps a different foot.

Lets state from the get-go that I'm not out to get anyone-- I just want some answers from the respondents. After all, that's what I was looking for when I responded initially.

First of all, you guys who have high leakage rates on alkies-- Where do you get them? And why?

Not meaning to pick on anyone, but if a third of your cells leak, what does that actually mean, in the real world?

Could it mean that a top of the line, huge battery company routinely produces cells with a failure rate of 33%? No, I don't believe that for a second. How could that even be possible? It can not be possible that a state of the art cell maker in the 21st century could put out a product that would compete so poorly with others. The competition among the big producers is so intense that if one of them actually had a failure rate of a third they would lose their market share in a second.

Of course, no one here has actually accused any company of turning out bad cells for a third of their production. From a modern manufacturing point of view 1/3 rejects would equate to total, abject failure. That has not happened. If that actually happened, that big company would be out of business.

So what are we actually talking about, here?

I'll state up front that I believe that these cells from different manufacturers are far more similar than they are different. It almost has to be that way. This is a very competitive business.

OK. Now we start get to the crux of the biscuit. If you are buying name brand alkys why are a third of them failing? Think about that for a second...

What's going on with your cells? It's a highly competitive market with few players. The few big players are very aware of their competitors advances and the competition is stiff.

If you really think about the technology employed in today's cells it will become obvious to some that the biggest difference in performance will all come down to how the cells are handled between the producer and the buyer.

That element is missing from most of the 'leaking' threads I've read.

Bottom line: If you insist on buying your cells from the same guy where you buy your SnoCones, don't be surprised if they leak.