"Bath Salts" Cannibal story (gory; caution)

[nbp]

nbp - cadavers that are used for science like you describe have the permission of either the person themself (authorized in a will or other document before they died) or a family member who is authorized to make that decision... and with regards to what morticians do, they are also exempt as they have permission as well to do whatever is necessary. Believe it or not there was a huge debate about whether or not cremation was desecration. The ruling was that it is not.

The Eighth Amendment refers to things like dismemberment and such. Back in the day when people were put to death for crimes or whatever and then their corpses were dismembered or desecrated in some other way (think head on a pike on a bridge), it was considered cruel and unusual punishment. I'm trying to find the paper I read on it for a class. When I find it, I'll post a link.

Oh... and also... desecration of a corpse is considered a war crime and a violation of the Geneva Convention. Remember that video not too long ago of those marines urinating on Taliban corpses? It is likely those marines will be tried and convicted of a war crime.

So if you wrote up a contract with a family member, for example, instructing that you wish to be eaten upon death, could they then do so with impunity? I am sure a coroner would still have to come and pronounce you legally dead of natural causes so that there was no chance of the family being charged with homocide, but in that case, it would seem that the contract would not be so different from the situation where you give scientists the right to dice you up for experiments. Plus, the act would not be done out of malice or contempt, and certainly not in the public eye such as the other examples you gave. People get matching tatoos or carry vials of each other's blood around; why not bind yourselves eternally together by eating the other when they pass on?

[nbp]

Greta, this again brings me to the thing about the German guy. He had the permission of the guy (whom he ate) to EAT him!

Part of the problem there was that he started to eat him while he was still alive I believe. That one is hard to defend.

[Greta]

Greta, this again brings me to the thing about the German guy. He had the permission of the guy (whom he ate) to EAT him!

You're talking apples and oranges. That is in Germany - a whole different country with whole different laws that are outlined in that article. My take is that we were talking about the United States with regards to legality.

[Greta]

So if you wrote up a contract with a family member, for example, instructing that you wish to be eaten upon death, could they then do so with impunity? I am sure a coroner would still have to come and pronounce you legally dead of natural causes so that there was no chance of the family being charged with homocide, but in that case, it would seem that the contract would not be so different from the situation where you give scientists the right to dice you up for experiments. Plus, the act would not be done out of malice or contempt, and certainly not in the public eye such as the other examples you gave. People get matching tatoos or carry vials of each other's blood around; why not bind yourselves eternally together by eating the other when they pass on?

Um... cuz now I think you're just being silly... But I'll tell ya what... give it a try and let me know how it works out for you.

[guiri]

floggings fall into the same category...

Ooo, this reminds me of a sign I sign somewhere saying "The floggings will continue till morale improves"

That's the spirit

[guiri]

Part of the problem there was that he started to eat him while he was still alive I believe. That one is hard to defend.

By request from his victim...

[guiri]

You're talking apples and oranges. That is in Germany - a whole different country with whole different laws that are outlined in that article. My take is that we were talking about the United States with regards to legality.

Well, we may be but I thought it was very interesting for many reasons.

[nbp]

Um... cuz now I think you're just being silly... But I'll tell ya what... give it a try and let me know how it works out for you.

Quite serious, actually. While repulsive and contrary to nature and certainly not something people should do, I don't really see why you would not be able to eat another person so long as no harm was done to them while still alive. Once you're dead you're dead. Whether you are being eaten or burned or diced up by scientists or tossed in a field or left on the top of Everest, what's the difference? It's dust to dust for every corpse, in one way or another.

That said, raging acid addicts eating other people's faces probably should be gunned down by police.

[guiri]

Also, I'm kinda with nbp on this one because I also feel that what you do with yourself or your body is your business as long as it doesn't hurt others.
Ie, if you want to have someone eat you, dead or alive, it should be your business and I strongly disagree with the laws in many or most countries
that prohibit suicide.

Now, if I commit suicide by slamming my car into an oncoming truck, that's not right.

[Greta]

Cruel and unusual punishment as outlined in the Eighth Amendment is defined by society and has evolved over the years due to societal influences. (Trust me on this one - I had to do a whole paper on the Eighth Amendment for one of my classes). Bodies donated to science go through all kinds of legal stuff and documentation through the courts. Only certain "organizations" can do the whole science thing and they have to be certified and stuff through the courts and follow certain protocol. (Trust me on this one too - my family has instructions to send my corpse to the Body Farm in TN. I've done my research.) And as far as being tossed in a field or left on top of Everest, that is illegal as well. You can't even bury a body in your back yard if you want without it being "preserved" as with formaldehyde or something of the sort. It is considered to be a bio-hazard otherwise and it is illegal. (Trust me on this stuff as well - I used to work for the County Medical Examiner in the morgue.)

[guiri]

Hmm, I sense a pattern here Greta...

[Greta]

Hmm, I sense a pattern here Greta...

Yep! You guessed it! I'm getting my degree in Criminal Justice! LOL!

[guiri]

Ok, I was thinking of something else but I'll let that one go

[Greta]

Ok, I was thinking of something else but I'll let that one go

LOL! My husband is a retired Crime Scene Detective. I've been living with horrific crime scene "stuff" for the past 10 years through him. And then he and I both did 6 months together in the morgue as death investigators. I was "introduced" to the Body Farm through a series of novels by Patricia Cornwell (The Kay Scarpetta series) - one of which is titled "Body Farm". Then I went on to reading the novels by Dr. Bill Bass - he is the founder of the original Death's Acre at the University of TN as part of the anthropology program. The one thing that has always intrigued and mostly frustrated me is that til this day time of death cannot be precisely determined. The closest one can get without any other information is within 6 hours. In a couple of cases I worked, this was a serious impediment to the investigation. Facilities such as the Body Farm do research on just that kind of stuff and it is their work that has gotten it down to within 6 hours. I believe it can be further narrowed down with more research. I just wish there were a facility that conducted research in a desert environment such as the one I live in. The closest is one down in Texas but even there, it is just not quite the same as here with the extreme heat and dryness. 6 hours is a pretty big window when trying to convict or acquit someone of homicide.

Oh... and FWIW... my family refused to send me off to TN...

[nbp]

Plenty of perfectly legal forms of body modification and cosmetic sugery are virtually mutilation or torture too IMO. Branding, scarring, tongue splitting, dermal anchors, liposuction, face lifts... A lot of pretty grotesque stuff there - check out YouTube for videos that will make you squirm.

That stuff doesn't necessarily apply directly to our topic, but I guess my point is that in the wacko world we live in, consuming a dead body is hardly more heinous than the things people do while they're alive for fun, convenience or vanity.

Gotta love a system where dead lifeless corpses have greater legal protection and rights than live babies.

[EZO]

Something in the air? ...... CNN, June 1, 2012 - - "Sheriff: Maryland student, 21, admits eating housemate's heart, part of brain"

[Monocrom]

As for the two guys in Germany . . . Two extremely mentally disturbed individuals found each other over the internet, and decided to meet up. Their different forms of extreme insanity complimented each other in a grotesque and horrific way. We've all heard the warnings about meeting up with folks you encounter and get to know, in a very limited way, over the internet. This is that one in a billion chance where two such disturbed lunatics met up with each other.

As for desecrating a corpse, back when Hollywood wasn't making crappy remakes; Lionel Barrymore and Earl Flynn were good friends. When the former died, his friends took his body out of the morgue; and went to Flynn's home. They dressed the body and propped up the body in a chair. Stuck a lit cigar in his mouth, and put a glass of brandy in his hand. When Flynn came home, he was nearly scared to death at his old friend sitting there. The other friends obviously hid and waited to see the look on Flynn's face. No clue if they were arrested for the prank.

When I die, I want to be cremated . . . Then I want my best friend to go up to individuals I can't stand, take a handful of my ashes, toss them at those people, and when they ask what's going on; just say "Mono says 'Hi.'"

Now it looks like I need to spell the whole thing out in my will.

[kaichu dento]

Somewhat disturbing to say the least, but let's make a disconnect from the whole idea of it's relation to lysergic acid diethylamide.

[Greta]

Somewhat disturbing to say the least, but let's make a disconnect from the whole idea of it's relation to lysergic acid diethylamide.

I guess I am confused... ... why do you (and others) feel there should be a disconnect? Does it really matter what drug is used/abused when a heinous crime (act) is committed? Po-tAE-to/Po-tAH-to...

[Norm]

I wonder how people feel about body parts, I carry the kidneys around from two very kind deceased people.

Norm

[orbital]

+

The original discussion is the absolute psychosis precipitated

If you haven't seen this video, start at around 2':25"
It's not that you can see exactly what's going on,,, but knowing the outcome & the long duration is genuinely horrifying. (left hand side of video)
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/2...ly-detail.html

[Greta]

I wonder how people feel about body parts, I carry the kidneys around from two very kind deceased people.

Norm

Norm - a very interesting perspective. And I'm hearing a lot more lately about cadaver-this and cadaver-that as far as joint replacement, tissue replacement, skin grafts, etc. The ultimate in "renew-reuse-recycle". I dunno... to some I guess it would be just as creepy as the story that kicked off this thread. But from your perspective, there is nothing creepy about it at all - it is a blessed gift.

[kaichu dento]

I guess I am confused... ... why do you (and others) feel there should be a disconnect? Does it really matter what drug is used/abused when a heinous crime (act) is committed? Po-tAE-to/Po-tAH-to...

Just because it has nothing to do with the story. It's not a defense of LSD to suggest that it shouldn't be included in the story which has more to do with a sick-minded individual and a possible connection with these so called "bath salts".

I agree with you completely that if a drug was used in connection with a crime, it's not the drug that even matters, but the act itself.

[orbital]

Just because it has nothing to do with the story. It's not a defense of LSD to suggest that it shouldn't be included in the story which has more to do with a sick-minded individual and a possible connection with these so called "bath salts".

I agree with you completely that if a drug was used in connection with a crime, it's not the drug that even matters, but the act itself.

If a compound used completely changes ones mental state, to the point of complete uncontrolled transgression, it absolutely matters.

[dc38]

Norm - a very interesting perspective. And I'm hearing a lot more lately about cadaver-this and cadaver-that as far as joint replacement, tissue replacement, skin grafts, etc. The ultimate in "renew-reuse-recycle". I dunno... to some I guess it would be just as creepy as the story that kicked off this thread. But from your perspective, there is nothing creepy about it at all - it is a blessed gift.

Agreed. The political correctness of carrying the kidneys of deceased people really has to do with the context...Norm, you are a very fortunate person. On the other hand, if you'd been carrying the kidneys around for a quick snack...O.o

Also, has there been any update on the victim? I can't seem to find any update on the victim :/ is he alive? is he dead? ZOMBIFIED perhaps? On a better note, I called the trauma center and they still seem to be operating just fine...I wonder how long until all i get is either a busy signal or no pickup at all?

[dc38]

ALSO, I don't know if this was mentioned before...but I also can't find any conclusive evidence that bathsalts OR lsd or any kind of potential drug was involved in the miami case...the media just cleverly stated that LEO's REFERENCED the occurrence to OTHER events. Basically, every news page I've read only says that LEO's explain SIMILARITIES and POSSIBILITIES that the cases are related in nature. One page even goes as far as to redirect/misdirect attention to the "drugs" that were mentioned, thus implying that the drugs WERE the definitive cause of the attack.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/29...ng-bath-salts/
I'm sorry for the rant, it just bothers me that a few well placed assumptions and conjectures can be taken as truth without a grain of salt (pun intended?)

[Greta]

If a compound used completely changes ones mental state, to the point of complete uncontrolled transgression, it absolutely matters.

orbital... can you further expand on this? I'm curious...

[rambo180]

The news article you linked in the OP, says:



If it's technically wrong, and it isn't comfortable for you, feel free to edit the title of the opening paragraph. It is your thread.

Hi Guys, Just thought I would clear this up.The term "bath salts" could really mean a wide variety of drugs. They are almost ALWAYS a type of drug called "cathinones" (as previously mentioned by someone else, this includes MDPV). Similar structure to methamphetamine/ice/crystal meth/MDMA/ecstasy. I've seen them called "kitty cat" or something like that on an american cop show. They're desinger drugs, similar effect but different structure desinged to dodge the law as in most cases the legislation needed to be modified to make bath salts illegal. They're banned in most countries now as far as I'm aware. They're sold as bath salts to dodge the law also, as in some places if it is labelled "not for human consumption" then it is OK to sell.

LSD is made from LSA which comes from magic mushrooms. LSD is different to cathinones and is NOT in bath salts.

BTW LSD and/or bath salts are not safe. Stay away from that sh*t unless you want to end up in hospital. One major reason being that you don't even know what you are taking. Even everyone here is speculating about what is in bath salts. I could tell you it is probably cathinones but I wouldn't know anything else! How pure is it? How much should you take? What cathinone is it? What else is in there? Is there any harmful impurities? How do you know it is the same as the last time you bought it? (you DON'T!!) etc etc.

[orbital]

orbital... can you further expand on this? I'm curious...

+

I truly believe in personal responsibility in the first place.

That said;
One wonders if Rudy Eugene was just enjoying an iced tea at the beach, that just maybe he wouldn't have eaten another mans face off while nude for fifteen minutes..
He attacked the man & that ultimately ended him, could it have been preventable? Absolutely
We are assuming he was trippping his brains out, if autopsy comes back clean,..we have larger problems.

Peoples actions are their own responsibility & accountability.

[Greta]

+

I truly believe in personal responsibility in the first place.

That said;
One wonders if Rudy Eugene was just enjoying an iced tea at the beach, that just maybe he wouldn't have eaten another mans face off while nude for fifteen minutes..
He attacked the man & that ultimately ended him, could it have been preventable? Absolutely
We are assuming he was trippping his brains out, if autopsy comes back clean,..we have larger problems.

Peoples actions are their own responsibility & accountability.

Got it - and agree 100%

But what does that have to do with which drug he may have been using? *IF* he was tripping his brains out, does it matter what his drug of choice was? The end result was the same.