Eagletac D25 Clicky Series Round-up Review (D25C, D25A2, D25LC2 - XM-L & XP-G)

[loquutis79]

I have the D25LC2 and really love it. My favorite EDC due to lumens and size.
But what is with all those strobes and others after the last soft click to high. This is where the U.I is over the top. All lights should have a way to program all strobes out if wanted. Those who need them and those who don't can set up their lights as they see fit.
The perfect world.

[Humminbird]

But what is with all those strobes and others after the last soft click to high. This is where the U.I is over the top. All lights should have a way to program all strobes out if wanted.

Exactly. If I could have my way, the D25 would have the following UI.
- Soft click to change mode. Standard sequence Moonlight-LO-MED-HI-Turbo.
- Long soft click shortcut to turbo.
- Loosen and tighten head to change mode sequence. Other mode sequences could have strobes and stuff.

[GordoJones88]

I'm not sure everyone gets how to 'program' the D25.

With mode memory off, the sequence is : Low > Med > Hi > Low > Med > Hi.
If you don't wanna see blinkies, soft press for 1 second or full press off/on,
and it reverts back to the beginning of the sequence.

[loquutis79]

Yes well, that's not programming. That's just putting up with what the light gives you. Programming is being able to go low-med-high, low-med-high as many times as you want with no strobe. And if you want strobe you do something else. Something more deliberate. Turning off the light to restart a cycle is not programming, it's having to put up with a lack of programming.

[phips]

I also think blinking modes should never be on the "main line" of the interface.
In fact it is a reason for me to not even consider buying several lights.
On the D25 series I can put up with it somewhat because the strobe is tucked away and easy to get out of.
Plus the rest of the light is pretty awesome

[SCEMan]

I also think blinking modes should never be on the "main line" of the interface.
In fact it is a reason for me to not even consider buying several lights.
On the D25 series I can put up with it somewhat because the strobe is tucked away and easy to get out of.
Plus the rest of the light is pretty awesome

I agree. Ideally I'd also like the blinking modes "lockable", but the for me, the D25LC2 is the Quark 18650 I've always wanted with added power. And if I need to cycle thru the levels more than 2x, a quick twist to turbo and back is a small price to pay...

[biglights]

I agree. Ideally I'd also like the blinking modes "lockable", but the for me, the D25LC2 is the Quark 18650 I've always wanted with added power. And if I need to cycle thru the levels more than 2x, a quick twist to turbo and back is a small price to pay...

Agreed, this is a pretty awesome light. It is after the second cycle, if it was the first then I could see where it would be a problem. Lockout would be nice, bit it is hardly ever an issue for me.

[shelm]

D25LC2 owners!!, anyone able to measure the current draw (tail cap reading as always)?
On a fresh XTAR 2600 18700 based on Sanyo cell, i get
~584mA on Hi2 (loosened head, with moonlight mode)
~611mA on Turbo (tightened head)

I dont know about actual lux or lumen readings but it appears that the current decreases with time, steadily. Like a monotonic decreasing curve (amperage vs. time). And since cell voltage must decrease with time too, i would draw the conclusion that brightness has to decrease too. However, selfbuilt's graph show a Turbo step-down and then a very flat line for the brightness curve.

Maybe my XTAR 18700 is the cause for the declining amperage?

In typical well-regulated lights with stabilized brightness the amperage should increase monotonically, as can be seen from the many (amperage vs. voltage) graphs by flashlight & electronics specialist HKJ.

Maybe my sample is faulty (i dont have any luxmeter to measure the output stepdown on Turbo-mode). Please share your amperage readings, thanks!!

[selfbuilt]

In typical well-regulated lights with stabilized brightness the amperage should increase monotonically, as can be seen from the many (amperage vs. voltage) graphs by flashlight & electronics specialist HKJ.

I have seen this issue many times with tailcap current draws on my lights. It is more likely your DMM is introducing resistance into the setup, causing the circuit to drop out of regulation. In consulting with HKJ, that has been the general conclusion reached.

Although it seems like the extra resistance of the DMM and leads would be neglible, in many cases it is sufficient to cause the circuit to drop out of regulation (i.e., it interprets the situation as equivalent to partially depleted batteries). Proof of this comes from doing concurrent light measures - whenever I see unusual tailcap current draws, I have always found a significant drop in output to coincide with inclusion of the DMM.

The only way to accurately interogate the performance of a circuit is through a bench-top power supply (and familiarity with doing voltage-current sweeps). This is why I don't report tailcap current draws in my reviews - in many cases, they can be inaccurate due to resistance altering circuit functioning. I am sure your lights are fine.

[phips]

You can find some current measurements done with a multimeter by me on page 4.
They are quite different from yours, though selfbuilt already offered a possible explanation.

[JudasD]

I have seen this issue many times with tailcap current draws on my lights. It is more likely your DMM is introducing resistance into the setup, causing the circuit to drop out of regulation. In consulting with HKJ, that has been the general conclusion reached.

Although it seems like the extra resistance of the DMM and leads would be neglible, in many cases it is sufficient to cause the circuit to drop out of regulation (i.e., it interprets the situation as equivalent to partially depleted batteries). Proof of this comes from doing concurrent light measures - whenever I see unusual tailcap current draws, I have always found a significant drop in output to coincide with inclusion of the DMM.

The only way to accurately interogate the performance of a circuit is through a bench-top power supply (and familiarity with doing voltage-current sweeps). This is why I don't report tailcap current draws in my reviews - in many cases, they can be inaccurate due to resistance altering circuit functioning. I am sure your lights are fine.

I thought the misreading of current with a DMM were only under heavy loads?

JD

[shelm]

D25LC2 owners!!, anyone able to measure the current draw (tail cap reading as always)?

Thanks guys!!
Thanks to your tips i reassessed my current setup (DMM, +DMM's probes, +attached crocodile clips w/ their own cables, +1 holding magnet on top of the crocodile clip for the 18700 cell; no current flows thru the neodymium magnet because it is not in contact with the cell!) and deleted the cables of the crocodile clips and the crocodile clips themselves. Now measuring the tail cap current with my DMM (and its original probes) i get totally different numbers!! Easily 1.7A on Turbo-mode, eek!

Now i am baffled. If i want to continuously measure the current (to get HKJ's graphs-like, amperage vs. time), how can i fix the DMM's leads to the threads and 18700 cell *without* using crocodile cables? And why on earth do manufacturers produce crocodile cables if their use influences the circuit that much? The voltage drop along these 2 cables must be substantial!

The DMM's leads arent magnetic. That's why i chose to use crocodile cables (=cables with crocodile clips on both ends) in the first place. And aluminum (=the threads of the flashlight) isnt magnetic either. So the easiest way to get a closed circuit is by using crocodile cables and 1 magnet. But once one does so, the circuit is influenced and current draw results considerably lower!!

Wow, what a mess.

I realize that the art of measurement technique is quite challenging!!

[selfbuilt]

I thought the misreading of current with a DMM were only under heavy loads?

Not necessarily. It is really more a question of how much resistance is enough to send the circuit out of its stabilized response range. And depending how the circuit functions, you may see it all loads in a given light (e.g. like in my Xtar S1 pre-production sample). I'm sure HKJ could explain it all better.

Now i am baffled. If i want to continuously measure the current (to get HKJ's graphs-like, amperage vs. time), how can i fix the DMM's leads to the threads and 18700 cell *without* using crocodile cables? ...
Wow, what a mess.
I realize that the art of measurement technique is quite challenging!!

Indeed. Personally, I try to use as little intervening cabling as possible for current draws (e.g. good leads, or short copper cabling and eletrical tape to hold things together). I rarely use aligator clips, and never use magnets.

But the only way to do HKJ-like graphs (of current/output/power over voltage) is with a power supply directly connected to the head. If you want to do output over time when run on batteries (like I do), then any data-logging lightmeter would do. But there is no simple way to do current draw over time, unless you verify concurrently with a lightmeter that your current measuring setup is not altering the output and/or runtime.

[shelm]

current measuring setup is not altering the output and/or runtime.

Thanks selfbuilt!
I need to admit that cell-powered current(A) vs. runtime(t) is a rather questionable manner to visualize the performance of a flashlight because it gives only an indirect indication of the brightness stabilization. A lightmeter is something which i dont have, and such great constant power supply machines like HKJ's are definitely beyond my budget and ambitions. My measured runtimes will certainly differ from your results simply because my cell is a 2600mAh Sanyo-based cell.

If one possesses only 1x DMM (or even 2x DMM with data logging functionality) and no other instruments or machines, then the only thing one could continuously graph over time is the tail cap current. *sigh*
Oh, i do have electrician's adhesive tape..

Now, on a freshly charged cell 4.235V i get like 1900mA+ on Turbo-mode (wooopieee!), or ~1.8A during the first 30secs. The light gets hot and i needs proper cooling after that time!

[hatman]

I agree. Ideally I'd also like the blinking modes "lockable", but the for me, the D25LC2 is the Quark 18650 I've always wanted with added power.

Agreed!

[drupal]

Hello, I have an Eagletac D25LC2 running with Trufire 18650 3100 batterys. I'm not able to get into moon mode by tightening/loosening 3x, what's the trick?

[selfbuilt]

Hello, I have an Eagletac D25LC2 running with Trufire 18650 3100 batterys. I'm not able to get into moon mode by tightening/loosening 3x, what's the trick?

It is because there is no moon mode on the D25LC2. If you look at the output tables in the review, you will see the moon level is actually brighter than the regular low of the other models.

It is unfortunate, but that is how it is for that model.

[shelm]

It is because there is no moon mode on the D25LC2.

I've measured tail cap current for both cycles (lower & higher), and on a fresh cell@4.235V i get:
Low: 48mA+ (higher cycle)
Low: 25mA+ (lower cycle)

These values are a little higher when the cell voltage is less than 4.2V because of the brightness stabilization. Easy to see, neither of the currents would theoretically correspond to a "moonlight" mode. For a real moonlight mode (sub-1lm output OTF) the current would have to be 5..10mA or even less on a fresh Li-ion cell. It is actually difficult enough to discern by heart the Low's between the higher and lower cycle. One cant be 100% sure which cycle is active (the lower? the higher?) unless one actively compares the Low's repeated times by twisting the head 3x to switch between.

Yep, on this model that's the way it is

[selfbuilt]

I've measured tail cap current for both cycles (lower & higher), and on a fresh cell (4.200..4.235V) i get:

Yes, there is a lower low mode in the second cycle of modes - it just isn't a "moonlight" mode, as you can tell from your current readings.

I give actual estimate lumen measures for all these modes, for all models, on all batteries, in the detailed tables at the end of the review post.

[MichaelW]

Maybe Eagletac will get on the ball, and get a markII version of the D25 clicky series out ASAP.
No xt-e, no xm-l, no special xm-l circuit, just the xp-g2 (R5-cool, R4-neutral) with desired improvements.

[BLUE LED]

To ascertain which low mode I am in, I compared it to my S-mini R5. To varify it, I measured the lux. I am in the lower mode, but it is still too high D25CL2 XP-G S2

[shelm]

D25LC2. I noticed that it is possible to produce a state of "constant TURBO-mode on", meaning that the switch loses its functionality and no change happens if you press it. On my sample, when i tighten the head, i get TURBO - STROBE, and these 2 modes are controlled by the switch. And you can switch the light off, of course.

Now, i noticed that i could tighten the head even more, with little additional force -- and the light would turn on, TURBO-mode, and stay on. Clicking the switch would no effect anything.

This effect seems to occur more easily when the threads and contact points are slightly dirty.. i guess by the aluminium powder (abrasion in threads). But even after cleaning the threads and contact points thoroughly with a Q-tip i would sometimes(!) observe this effect:
overtightening the heads provokes a constant-on state in TURBO-mode.

Anyones else observed this phenomenon?

[phips]

Has anyone yet tried to swap the LED of a D25?
I was thinking about putting a Nichia 219 LED ( http://illuminationsupply.com/index....roducts_id=158 ) into my D25LC2.
Seems like a great LED and without the turbo mode it should not be overdriven I guess.
However I don't know how to disassemble the head, the lens and reflector come of easy enough but after that I am at a loss.
Any tips?

[BWX]

D25LC2. I noticed that it is possible to produce a state of "constant TURBO-mode on", meaning that the switch loses its functionality and no change happens if you press it. On my sample, when i tighten the head, i get TURBO - STROBE, and these 2 modes are controlled by the switch. And you can switch the light off, of course.

Now, i noticed that i could tighten the head even more, with little additional force -- and the light would turn on, TURBO-mode, and stay on. Clicking the switch would no effect anything.

This effect seems to occur more easily when the threads and contact points are slightly dirty.. i guess by the aluminium powder (abrasion in threads). But even after cleaning the threads and contact points thoroughly with a Q-tip i would sometimes(!) observe this effect:
overtightening the heads provokes a constant-on state in TURBO-mode.

Anyones else observed this phenomenon?

Mine doesn't do that. There is something rattling around in the head though. I took it all apart, the lense and reflector out- but can't see anything.

[TweakMDS]

Shelm, I'd be careful with overtightening. When in doubt if it's working normally, maybe clean the threads and relubricate them with some teflon lube. No clue where to buy that around our parts though... I figured that head tightened was simply "circuit closed" and head loosened was "circuit open".
Maybe by overtightening you're preventing the half press of the tail clicky to actually be registered.

[shelm]

Maybe by overtightening you're preventing the half press of the tail clicky to actually be registered.

Fortunately i cannot reproduce this strange behavior over and over again. Not. These days the light works really fine.

Anybody knows if it is safe and harmless to leave the light running in High-mode (head loosened), unattended, tail standing? We all know that the head gets hot in High-mode and in Turbo-mode only after 1 minute *if* left unattended in tail stand mode at normal room temperature (no winds, no convection).

It's a very hot light

[TweakMDS]

It might eventually catch on fire, or the surface it's standing on might get damaged... But realistically, I think the worst thing to happen would be that you break the LED.

Still, I wouldn't risk high unattended, medium should be fine for that, and for high, I'd rather use a medium or high mode on a larger light.

[shelm]

Warning: a LOT more pic heavy than usual.

So anyone knows what the colored stripes mean?

maybe
blue stripe = old LED's
orange stripe = latest LED's

??

Comparing old youtube videos (D25 Mini's) and the fact that most shown packages must be from COOLWHITE LED's, i dont think that the stripe color has anything to do with the TINT of the LED's.
Please could everyone check their packaging and try to find a correlation between LED, TINT, and STRIPE COLOR?

[selfbuilt]

maybe
blue stripe = old LED's
orange stripe = latest LED's

More specifically, the blue-stripe boxes in that picture were both XP-G S2. The orange-stripe boxes were XM-L U2.

[shelm]

... and blue-stripe T20C2 boxes are XM-L T6