SEV Marchal is BACK!

[haha1234]

A Japanese company acquired the rights to Marchal in 2009, and the new lights are made in Japan.

Here is a story on the revival:
http://aishagarage.com/gm/archives/00000074.php

Marchal's new website:
http://www.marchal.jp/

I asked both Marchal and the vendor I linked above whether they offer the H4 lights for RHT.

[Scheinwerfermann]

I'm sorry to have to rain on your parade, but goodness, what an awful mess this is. I've been watching these go across various Japanese auction sites for the past couple of years, and I snagged a couple of them to look at not long back. They are a not-very-good reproduction (of unknown and dubious origin -- marketed but not made in Japan!) of the old 880-series H2 fog and driving lamp lens-reflector, hacked to accept an H4 bulb. This may barely meet the oldest and laxest of the obsolete Japanese headlamp requirements for very old cars, but probably not; it certainly does not meet any current Japanese, European, or US standard and the light emitted by this hacked mismatch of lens/reflector and bulb cannot properly be called a beam pattern.

These are really intended for show cars that aren't actually driven on real roads after dark.

Also, the rights to "SEV Marchal" still belong to Valeo except in the United States where they were bought a few years back by Candlepower (the bulb sellers, not this board). I don't know what the name-rights situation is in Japan, but it is probably not as the "story on the revival" author seems to think it is; witness his or her ignorant and totally false claim that "The signature characteristic of these expensive lamps are the center cat face printed on the lamp, causing a cat eyes and cat ears silhouette to appear in your light's beam." There was never any cat silhouette in the beam! This is completely made up by someone who obviously does not know at all what he or she is talking about, and the rest of his or her guesses and assumptions look similarly wrong. The photo in the article, purporting to show the cat shadow, is even more of a ridiculous stretch than those "I saw Jesus in my french toast this morning!" types of stories, and even though photos of beam patterns are useless, you (or at least I) can see the utterly useless blotchy spray of light these lamps are producing.

I'm afraid the lamps you've found aren't anything like what you think they are. And even if they were, they would still be for the other (left) side of the road. It's not clear to me why you are looking to buy headlamps from Japan for a vehicle to be used in the USA; all Japanese-spec headlamps are for use on the left side of the road.

[haha1234]

Crap.

Thank you for the heads-up. I reported them to Valeo.

[Alaric Darconville]

witness his or her ignorant and totally false claim that "The signature characteristic of these expensive lamps are the center cat face printed on the lamp, causing a cat eyes and cat ears silhouette to appear in your light's beam." There was never any cat silhouette in the beam! This is completely made up by someone who obviously does not know at all what he or she is talking about,

On the other hand, reliance on them could result in the silhouette of a deer imprinted on your hood (Zing!)

[Scheinwerfermann]

I sent the content of my post (#2 in this thread), edited appropriately, to the contact address at the first link you provided. Here is the pertinent part of what came back:

Wow, you apparently take this subject very seriously. Your claim about the safety and legality of using a RHD headlight in a LHD country is incorrect. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the use of RHD cars equipped with RHD lighting on their roads, as a beam's angle can be adjusted in just about every imported car. I can point you in the direction of the specific DOT paperwork or importers who consistently and legalling import RHD cars. I also personally drive a RHD vehicle in the United States, and safely operate my vehicle at night on a daily basis.

It was signed "Mason". The only accurate part of Mason's text is that I take this subject very seriously. The rest of it has no basis in fact, though I'm sure Mason earnestly believes his (complete mis)understanding to be valid.

[Phatty McPatty]

On the other hand, reliance on them could result in the silhouette of a deer imprinted on your hood (Zing!)

Hilarious!

[John_Galt]

I sent the content of my post (#2 in this thread), edited appropriately, to the contact address at the first link you provided. Here is the pertinent part of what came back:

Wow, you apparently take this subject very seriously. Your claim about the safety and legality of using a RHD headlight in a LHD country is incorrect. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the use of RHD cars equipped with RHD lighting on their roads, as a beam's angle can be adjusted in just about every imported car. I can point you in the direction of the specific DOT paperwork or importers who consistently and legalling import RHD cars. I also personally drive a RHD vehicle in the United States, and safely operate my vehicle at night on a daily basis.

It was signed "Mason". The only accurate part of Mason's text is that I take this subject very seriously. The rest of it has no basis in fact, though I'm sure Mason earnestly believes his (complete mis)understanding to be valid.

Brings to mind a relevant saying about arguing with...certain types of people...

[Alaric Darconville]

Mason sez: RHD headlight in a LHD country
RHD cars equipped with RHD lighting
RHD cars
RHD vehicle

RHD? LHD? [facepalm] As if the position of the controls in the car have any bearing on the position of the car on the road. Sad, though-- that so many people would take him at his word... Surprised he didn't throw out a few JDM/USDM references, too.

[Phatty McPatty]

RHD? LHD? [facepalm] As if the position of the controls in the car have any bearing on the position of the car on the road. Sad, though-- that so many people would take him at his word... Surprised he didn't throw out a few JDM/USDM references, too.

But wait, you're forgetting his careful light measurements... nobody flashed their high beams at him, he's never been pulled over, and he's never failed safety inspection! So obviously his setup is safe and compliant!!

[Alaric Darconville]

But wait, you're forgetting his careful light measurements... nobody flashed their high beams at him, he's never been pulled over, and he's never failed safety inspection! So obviously his setup is safe and compliant!!

Not to mention he hasn't hit any deer yet!

[DenCon]

I so miss Amplilux headlights...

[Loko]

Some Carello headlights in Brazil also had a cat in your lenses ...

http://bimg2.mlstatic.com/s_MLB_v_F_...92058_3737.jpg

Is there any connection with Marchal?

Sorry my bad english

[Scheinwerfermann]

Wow...that's really interesting! Marchal cat logo, Carello name, no ECE type approval on the optics that look more like Marchal than Carello but don't look 100% like either. I wonder what kind of interesting license/subsidiary/local-operation entanglement led to these (or if they're just plain old offshore counterfeit items, maybe...?).

The Cibie people in Brazil offered interesting variants on lamps made by the central/real/main Cibie people in France. 7" round headlamps consisting of the lens (in white or yellow) and reflector from the old tungsten headlamp, but with an H4 bulb, no ECE type approval, and a horse logo on the lens, for example.

[Loko]

Wow...that's really interesting! Marchal cat logo, Carello name, no ECE type approval on the optics that look more like Marchal than Carello but don't look 100% like either. I wonder what kind of interesting license/subsidiary/local-operation entanglement led to these (or if they're just plain old offshore counterfeit items, maybe...?).

The Cibie people in Brazil offered interesting variants on lamps made by the central/real/main Cibie people in France. 7" round headlamps consisting of the lens (in white or yellow) and reflector from the old tungsten headlamp, but with an H4 bulb, no ECE type approval, and a horse logo on the lens, for example.

Yes, here in Brazil we have many different Cibié headlights, and also Arteb/Hella, Carello, Rossi/Federal Mogul.

The horse is related to an old advertisement:
http://bimg1.mlstatic.com/s_MLB_v_F_...71186_5272.jpg

Thank you Scheinwerfermann

[Scheinwerfermann]

I wish I could see that old advertisement closely enough to read the text!

[Loko]

Here are some advertisements
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7644771...7630165983770/

[Scheinwerfermann]

I have an awful case of the flu, and there's nothing good on TV so I guess I'll add a new post to this old thread. Take a look at this Japanese auction for a set of the so-called "new Marchal" headlamps. It's a Marchal logo and name etched onto the lens of a headlamp-shaped toy made very cheaply by Jute. Personally, I would hesitate before buying safety components from a company that claims to make "Iron Head Lamp" (and seal beans) and picked a random English word for their fake English name...or maybe they make rope and twine, too! But I guess as long as a maker is already going far enough to claim that a toy is a headlamp, what's wrong with a little more pretending ("Marchal")?

[irsa76]

I did some digging and the SEV Marchal in the original post appears to be a sister company to Cibie Japan. A friend of mine mistakenly contacted Cibie Japan with the view of becoming their Australian agent, apparently they claimed they are unable to export to Australia, either due to restrictions imposed as part of their license from Valeo or because the products aren't likely to pass Australian regulations.

[irsa76]

I sent the content of my post (#2 in this thread), edited appropriately, to the contact address at the first link you provided. Here is the pertinent part of what came back:

Wow, you apparently take this subject very seriously. Your claim about the safety and legality of using a RHD headlight in a LHD country is incorrect. In the United States, there are no laws prohibiting the use of RHD cars equipped with RHD lighting on their roads, as a beam's angle can be adjusted in just about every imported car. I can point you in the direction of the specific DOT paperwork or importers who consistently and legalling import RHD cars. I also personally drive a RHD vehicle in the United States, and safely operate my vehicle at night on a daily basis.

It was signed "Mason". The only accurate part of Mason's text is that I take this subject very seriously. The rest of it has no basis in fact, though I'm sure Mason earnestly believes his (complete mis)understanding to be valid.

A response like that I would expect from a member of the public trying to justify why their illegal car isn't actually illegal, the old everyone else is doing it and not getting in trouble so therefore it's legal argument.
NOT what I would have expected from a representative of a lighting manufacturer. At the least I would have expected a vague but incorrect interpretation of the law, stating what ever law they misinterpreted maybe even with some dubious technical specifications to back it up. His argument that beam angle adjustment may be correct, and is only applicable to projector lights anyway, but adjustment of a non-compliant light does not automatically mean it's compliant.
As for his claims about the use of RHD, LHT, head lights in the US may be correct, but they would be vehicles using J-Dot standard headlights which in my experience would be the only LHT lights that could get away with it. Note I said get away rather then be legal, they would be far from legal but are a closer compromise then using UK or AU standard lights, which due to the pronounced LH kickup, missing or somewhat reduced on most Japanese lights,would be a serious problem in the US.

[Alaric Darconville]

I have an awful case of the flu. Take a look at this auction
"Iron Head Lamp" "seal beans"

Well, they do say that laughter is the best medicine!

[Scheinwerfermann]

I did some digging and the SEV Marchal in the original post appears to be a sister company to Cibie Japan.

To clarify, there is no such company as "Cibie Japan" because there is no such company as Cibie. Cibie is a brand, and no longer a very widely applied one. Since 1968 or so it has belonged to Valeo, a large France-based auto parts conglomerate with offices and manufacturing plants all over the world.

[irsa76]

To clarify, there is no such company as "Cibie Japan" because there is no such company as Cibie. Cibie is a brand, and no longer a very widely applied one. Since 1968 or so it has belonged to Valeo, a large France-based auto parts conglomerate with offices and manufacturing plants all over the world.

Cibie Japan is a company insofar it's a registered company that markets lighting products under the brand Cibie, as is SEV Marchal. In these respective cases Cibie and SEV Marchal is simply used due to historic respect of the respective brands, they could have as easily been Scheinwerfermann lighting company, except would most certainly have technically superior products!

[Scheinwerfermann]

Cibie Japan is a company insofar it's a registered company that markets lighting products under the brand Cibie

My understanding is that there is no such company as "Cibie Japan". There is a Japanese online 4x4 outfitter that has the cibie.com domain, and they sell Cibie lamps (among others). But mine may not be a full understanding of the situation; the Japanese market is difficult for outsiders to penetrate because of language, economic, and cultural barriers.

they could have as easily been Scheinwerfermann lighting company, except would most certainly have technically superior products!

Ha ha :-) Oh, the lamps I would "magic" into existence if I could!