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Thread: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

  1. #1
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Following is copy/paste of email from brother. I'd guess he would want a limit of, say....$50. But if something more expensive truly fills the bill, he'd want to know about it for comparison purposes.
    "Throw" isn't necessary, as that implies brightness. A dark hospital-type room won't need lots of light.
    Perhaps a MC-E type light with a lens that'll throw a square beam and can be throttled back to a decent low?


    I have to check on patients throughout the night to make sure they don't die while going through detox. But I don't want to wake them up while I'm checking on them. It would be really cool to have a light that has a very narrow beam. I want to be able to illuminate their body so I can see if they're breathing, but not shine onto their face at all.
    I have a couple Cree Ultrafires, nice and compact with the single AA battery. But the problem with all flashlights is that they have a bright center spot surrounded by a huge circle of dimmer light. I tried making a snoot from black paper, but it didn't work so well. I was wondering if something could be done to make the light come out in long, thin, rectangular pattern with no light fall-off (just want a sharp edge).
    I was tempted to put a polarizing filter over the lens, and then make something with a slit in it to block the top and bottom. But I don't think that would help a lot with the light fall-off. Maybe two slits set a certain distance apart? I dunno...

    Any Ideas?

  2. #2

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Sounds to me like you need a light with an aspheric lens. The smaller hand held ones are harder to find, but can still be found. Now that you know what to search for take a look.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    An aspheric lens would do exactly what you are requesting...as they essentially project an image of the led itself onto the surface, using the surface the way a projector would use a screen, etc.

    The PROBLEM is that the aspheric lights ARE designed for throw (Which is NOT implying brightness), its implying RANGE.

    The beam SHAPE is your concern, and, you don't need brightness per se, you need what is called less SPILL.



    So, the available aspheric lights will give a sharp cut off, but, the light itself on the patient will only be on a few square inches of the patient at a time. This is probably not as useful as being able to see say the entire body w/o the face, or at least a few feet at a time of the body, etc.

    Plan B might be to USE the spill AS the outer edge of what you see, as many lights have a fairly well defined spill boundary. The spill is very soft compared to the hot spot and corona, and most people would be able to sleep through a little spill from a reasonable powered beam.

    Would your brother's eyes be night adapted during these checks on patients, or would he be essentially coming in from the typically brightly lit halls, etc, and popping into a room with the lights out?

    I'm trying to guess at the effective LUX that would be appropriate for the patient's body.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    I was thinking that pointing the torch at the ceiling and using the reflected lumens would be enough to see if the patient is ok while not enough to wake them up. I do it with the mrs all the time.

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    Flashaholic guardpost3's Avatar
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    Look into the Bushnell HD, sounds like it would fit the bill perfectly.

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  6. #6
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    hmmm, that Bushnell would be good if it had multi-output...

    I had suggested trying two strips of black electrical tape on the lens with a narrow gap to allow a slit of light...but a purpose-use light would be better.

  7. #7

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Thanks bro! For some reason I never thought to put up a post in here.
    I thought that you already knew everything about flashlights.

    So...

    I deal with patients going through drug/alcohol detox who almost always have a hard time sleeping, and shining lights on them doesn't help. I walk from a lighted hallway into a dark room. I've tried reflecting the light off the ceiling, but that provides too much overall illumination. The paper snoot sounded good in my head, but isn't practical or very effective (gets crushed while in my pocket). The best I can do is try to cup my hand around the front of the barrel. The dimmer spill-off part of the beam is too dark for me to see since my eyes are accustomed to the bright hallways. The inner hot spot is the perfect brightness, but I would love to have a sharp edge so that I only illuminate a couple feet at a time.

    I have no idea what an aspheric lens is, or an MC-E.... all I know is that the light goes on when I press the button.
    But hey, at least that's a start. Google is my friend.

    Thanks guys!

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* greenlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    A lot of LED lenser lights have this beam profile and are small and inexpensive. Search on amazon and limit your price to 20$ Buy a few and pick the one you like best. Try to stick with one AAA or one AA battery. I have the BMW version and I like it a lot.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    Would your brother's eyes be night adapted during these checks on patients, or would he be essentially coming in from the typically brightly lit halls, etc, and popping into a room with the lights out?

    I'm trying to guess at the effective LUX that would be appropriate for the patient's body.

    I directed him to this thread, and maybe he'll he'll join. At the moment I don't have many answers. He works graveyard and is likely asleep now.

    Greenlight...now I remember hating Lensers because I have a 180° difference in light needs to my brother's, and have only looked at floodier lights.

    Anybody know of any brick and mortar stores down south in the Laguna Beach area where he could fondle some lights?
    Last edited by cityevader; 06-06-2012 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #10
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    Could always get a Spy Tri-V...

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  11. #11
    Flashaholic* Echo63's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    An old Inova X1 would probably work pretty well for this job.
    its a single AA light, with a TIR lens
    it throws a nice smooth even spot of light, with a crisp edge, at 6ft the spot is maybe 1 foot across (maybe a bit bigger or smaller, I haven't fired mine up in ages)

    The beam is reminiscent of an old theater spotlight, a smooth wash of light with a very thin blue/purple cutoff edge and then nothing, no spill at all.

    As for where to get one now, the MP is probably your best bet (shouldn't cost to much either)If you really struggle to find one, I think my local surplus store has a few left but the will charge a small fortune.
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  12. #12
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    [QUOTE=Echo63;3958517]An old Inova X1 would probably work pretty well for this job.
    [


    Is there an old vs new model for this? If so, which would this one be?

    Link removed. See banner at top of page.
    Last edited by Unforgiven; 06-07-2012 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* greenlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    The original Inova X1 is truly the stealthiest of lights. I didn't recommend that light because it's not available anymore. If you offered enough money I'm sure someone would sell one of his.

    The LED lenser P2 is going to be a good option:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+...w=1108&bih=497

  14. #14
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Dereelight makes a C2H NOHS (no hotspot) that sounds like what you're looking for.
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    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Have you looked at lights like DX SKU 103914? if you search through the Ultrafire lights there are a few similar models.

    Norm

  16. #16
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    I don't own one, but I wonder if a Mini Maglight would work for him. From what I've read, they have adjustable beams from "spot to flood." They're well under his price line.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Some bike lights such as the Philips SafeRide claim to have a sharp cutoff like automobile low beams. Also, there's mention on some bicycle forums about custom bike lights with sharp cutoff.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    The dereelight looks promising...just need to research beam pattern.

    As for the mini-mag, we're too much of modern-light-snobs to do that.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    On a side note, in triage, etc, and are looking at a wound needing bright light to make out details, we can simply hold up one hand, empty or holding a folder or something, to cast a shadow on the victim's face (Or keep them from viewing gore, etc...).

  20. #20

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Most doctors and nurses that I've come across carry a pen light. Have you seen or considered a 4Sevens Preon 2? It's small, and multi-level, and there's a high-CRI version which would he helpful for accurately checking on skin/eye color, and reading charts that might have colored lines or text. On low it only puts out 2lm, which should be enough to walk around, and check patients without waking anyone.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Quote Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
    The dereelight looks promising...just need to research beam pattern.

    As for the mini-mag, we're too much of modern-light-snobs to do that.
    I kind of felt like a slap would be coming from that suggestion. But I figured throwing it out there would be interesting just to see the reply.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    hehehe, I was gentle with the mini-mag response.

    The Dereelight mentioned isn't aspheric, and seems like a typical floody xpg beam pattern.

    I had a PreonII and again, typical xpg type beam. A bit floody.

    The DX 103914 looks interesting. It kinda seems like it might be aspheric...is it? The "snoot" looks like what my bro tried with rolled up paper...but if it's also aspheric, might be good!

  23. #23
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Quote Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
    .The DX 103914 looks interesting. It kinda seems like it might be aspheric...is it? The "snoot" looks like what my bro tried with rolled up paper...but if it's also aspheric, might be good!
    If you look closely at the front on picture it looks like a normal reflector, the nose will cut down the unwanted spill.

    Norm

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* Echo63's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Quote Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
    Is there an old vs new model for this? If so, which would this one. Link removed from quote.
    That would be the newer model
    There is at least 2 versions of the X1 - the first one had a 5mm led
    Last edited by Unforgiven; 06-07-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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  25. #25
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Does anyone have a pic and a clear description of how to visually spot the difference between the original Inova X1 and newer versions? Google doesn't really differentiate.

  26. #26

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Wow, I wasn't expecting so many responses to my inquiry. You guys are awesome! I will certainly look into the suggestions made. However, is there any way to see what the projected beams look like? I've seen pictures where they point the flashlight at a wall from a few feet away so that you can see the light patterns. Is there some kind of resource out there that shows this for a bunch of different flashlights? Some units that I've looked into do show such a demo, but some units don't show it.

    My previous post (#7) might have gotten overlooked. I'm being "moderated" until I have a post greater than 3, and it took all day to have my post appear. (to whoever is doing the moderating: I'm not ragging on you... just doing some clarifying )

    One thing I want to clarify is how I use the light. I'm checking to see if the patients are breathing. The most effective way that I've found is not to have a bunch of general illumination in the room. It's easier to cast a brighter, narrower bean at a slightly downward angle from the corner of the bed. It's easier to see the motion of the shadows cast by the rising and falling chest. It's harder to see the actual motion of the person's chest. That's why I was asking about a flashlight that has a narrow beam with a hard edge... because I'm pointing it at a low angle from the foot of the bed toward the patient's face, and I don't want ANY light to go above the person's neck.

    Thanks for all your input!

  27. #27

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    How about the Romisen RC-29?
    Romisen makes some inexpensive lights with lenses, providing a nice clean cut-off. There are higher powered lithium versions, but if he doesn't want the power, I'd recommend this:
    ShiningBeam Romisen RC-29 II R5 Flood-to-Throw LED Flashlight
    For 20USD shipped, he could have a light that runs on a AA battery with the adjustable focus lense.

    (As far as the Inova question- the original version had an optic on the front so it looks like a magnification of the LED. The new version has a "normal looking" shiny silver reflector around an unmagnified LED. I don't have a picture but they look as different as any optic vs. reflector lights. You aren't likely to come across an original version any more unless an individual is explicitly describing it as the original. Well, also greenlight probably hunted them all down already for his sweet glow in the dark paint mods. )

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    Last edited by Norm; 06-07-2012 at 02:30 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    The original SureFire L1 was spotty, and pretty dim on low. It's also not discontinued, but I see them up on the MP from time to time.

  29. #29

    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    Thanks everybody for your suggestions. I just ordered the 103914 from DealExtreme. I'll post an update to let y'all know how well it works for me. I'm hoping that it's good enough to light up what I need without waking up my patients.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic cityevader's Avatar
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    Default Re: need sharply cut off beam pattern rather than bright throw

    It's been two months now, so you should have surely received your DX package by now?
    How does your "uncircumcised" light working for you?

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