How long should modern batteries last if not overused or abused?

I always see the battery specs that include stuff like how many charges you can get from the batteries, how long their charge will last while unused or not used much(self discharge). Thats on top of the usual specs like capacity, voltage, etc.

But what I dont see anyone advertising is how long these batteries will last if you use them an average or below average amount. Lets say you arent a professional photographer, or you dont play your portable video games all day long, and as a result you only need to recharge your batteries anywhere between 1-2 times per month, to 4 times per week while on vacation. I dont see any info about total battery life now that I think about it.

So lets say you dont charge your batteries once or twice a day, and you only charge them a total of maybe 10-15-20-25 times per year, but you also dont store them in your oven, and you dont use them for batting practice either. How long will the following batteries be likely to last, if well taken care of?

1. Modern Low self discharge NiMh batteries(name brand):

2. Modern Standard NiMh batteries(name brand):

3. Modern Li-Ion batteries(name brand, Panasonic based, low capacity):

4. Modern Li-Ion batteries(name brand, Panasonic based, high capacity):

5. Modern LiFePo4 batteries(name brand):



Some good, accurate, or even ball-park measurements would be appreciated.......:naughty:

Ballpark estimates, if you take relatively good care of your cells, I'd say roughly...

1. 5 years

2. 1 to 2 years

3. 3 years

4. 2 years

5. 3 years

Of course this depends a lot on the specifics involved. Also, name-brand might not mean as much as you think. Some are good, some aren't, even within the same brand name. However, no-name-brand ones likely are as good as you might think.

Wrend said:

5. 3 years

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Uh, A123Systems claims 10+ years for their ANR26650M1B's.. and 2000+ cycles.

Also, I have 4 year old non-LSD NiMH's that still work well, 2 year old LSD NiMH's that are already dead, and 5 year old Li-Ion's which lost less than 10% of capacity (they were properly stored). So none of these 'lifetime expectations' can be answered definitively.

Yeah, A123s are good. I guess I was leaning more towards "typical" with those estimates.

still using 6 YO Eneloops that have at least 1900mAh capacity.

Norm

I've only been using Eneloops for about three years. (Late to the party.) I have well over 100 now though, and they all still work like new.

Battery chemistries generally degrade a few percent a year in normal storage, so they just gradually get worse. They don't fall off a cliff. You can minimize this by storing with moderate charge at low temperature.

For normal NiMH, 2-3 years with very good care. LSD eneloops can easily reach 6 years based on some posts around here, no known maximum yet. Another LSD (a cheap brand I have already show signs of wear within the first year). No clue for the other chemistries.

I don't know nearly as much about batteries as other people on this forum. Personally, I have used a 5 year benchmark for any battery, be it a car battery, gel cell, rechargeable nimh, Lithium, etc. Life time is a relative word. ANY 1 year old battery will work better than the equivalent 3 year old battery, Any 3 year old battery will work better the the equivalent 6 year battery. After 5-6 years, your really cannot count on that battery much. Would you trust your car battery after 6 years to start your car at -10 degrees F? NO, If you are in law enforcement and you use your lights for safety--where your life depends on that flashlight in your holster, would you trust a 6 year old battery? NO. Would a Fireman go into a burning building and trust his Motorola radio to possibly save his life and the lives of others with as 5 year old battery? NO. Now if you want to keep old batteries around to do benchmarks, that's fine. Or if you use a flashlight for some evening reading, feel free to use old batteries. IF THE JOB YOU ARE DOING IS EVEN MODERATELY IMPORTANT, THROW OUT THE OLD BATTERIES AND GET NEW ONES.

I think trying to pin down numbers without having brands and capacities of batteries gets you nowhere.
I have found that with non LSD nimh that some of the brands and lower capacity batteries do well for years
but have their share of batteries go bad in each case. I have some generic nimh that are doing ok 8 years later
while some that are useless of name brands with HSD (High Self Discharge) after less than a year of use.
I have some rayovac hybrids that are over 4 years old that are fine but some that are ruined by reverse charging
them while I have no duraloops bad yet so far but most are not in use at all. I have seen lithium ion batteries
work fine 5 years later if treated well and not used a lot while have heard of some packs going south after just a few years.
Usage, brands, type, capacity. There is no easy way to make blanket statements regarding batteries without knowing all of these things.

zoulas, for job critical situations a newer battery would be probably better. Still I wouldn't trust a brand new battery, which can be unreliable right out from the factory, even if it is the best brand available. I'd trust more a battery that has some cycles already on it and used in a non-critical situation for reliability testing. This is basically because the batteries when brand new (at least for NiMH), they don't produce their best performance yet and any defect would be identified before a critical usage. Using them will eventually produce the maximum performance to rely on. So for me, any 6-12 months used battery is better than any brand new right out of the package for critical use. Still the question is more for a regular non-critical usage. Most users don't have such needs, they just want to save on batteries and the environment, or just love the concept of charging batteries.
The mileage may vary based on what someone considers a battery as poorly performing and how he treats the battery. I can trust even my 5 years old Lead Acid car battery because I have treated it that way and expect a prolonged life from that, knowing what makes things worse and what does good to it. Some other users don't get more than 2-3 years based on how they treat the car battery. That doesn't mean the batteries are unreliable beyond a given time. My unreliability point will be different to any other.

apagogeas said:

I can trust even my 5 years old Lead Acid car battery because I have treated it that way and expect a prolonged life from that, knowing what makes things worse and what does good to it. Some other users don't get more than 2-3 years based on how they treat the car battery. That doesn't mean the batteries are unreliable beyond a given time. My unreliability point will be different to any other.

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I would rate car batteries about 4-7 years myself in this part of the country as we have freezing winters and 100+ degree summers that torture most batteries. I haven't had one last more than 5 years from brand new and when they get around 4 years old and have trouble starting a car when it hits 20 degrees outside they are worn out and usually fail the next winter season.

I did an eneloop break-in last week, with the mh-c9000

Break-in 1st gen(5+ yrs. old) : 1903-1907
Break-in 2nd gen(2 yrs.old) : 1930-1960
Break-in eneloop xx (1+ yr. old): 2150 - 2360

The results 5 years ago with the 1st gen. eneloops were certainly higher, but not by a large amount. Perhaps 1940-1980 if I recall correctly. I've never hit, nor broken the 2,000 landmark figure, but that's likely due to my version of the Mh-C9000.
Considering I'm still getting over the minimum (with the exception of slot 2 on the mh-c9000,sometimes), I'd say they've got some decent life still left in them. Although, I'm not getting minimum ratings for the eneloop xx. Perhaps I'll discharge everything at 100 ma before running a break-in next time.

**I've got an old Garmin 12 handheld gps that runs on 4xAA batteries. Yet, there's an internal lithium battery.
This old fella is easily 15 yrs. old, yet still going strong. I have never changed the internal battery; I presume it's being charged by the eneloop batteries inside. Yet still.....any thoughts?

Lol, I'd say I need to change that lithium battery one of these days before I lose all my 'marked' fishing spots.

Marc999 said:

I


**I've got an old Garmin 12 handheld gps that runs on 4xAA batteries. Yet, there's an internal lithium battery.
This old fella is easily 15 yrs. old, yet still going strong. I have never changed the internal battery; I presume it's being charged by the eneloop batteries inside. Yet still.....any thoughts?

Lol, I'd say I need to change that lithium battery one of these days before I lose all my 'marked' fishing spots.

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It is probably a coin cell like 2025 or something and may only use power when your batteries (AAs) go dead in it or when you do battery changes.

Norm said:

still using 6 YO Eneloops that have at least 1900mAh capacity.

Norm

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Ditto here.