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Thread: PCB for Battery Pack

  1. #1
    Enlightened
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    Default PCB for Battery Pack

    Hi all I will have this Battery Pack arriving soon , looking for a PCB and a charger , need help
    Need links please...



    It's a Sanys 18650 Li-ion Battery pack 14.8V 5200mAH 4S2P


    Tony
    Last edited by trimixdiver; 06-10-2012 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    where are you located? if in the US, you can find several PCB's at batteryspace.com etc. If not in the US, skip this site unless you are ready to pay ridiculous shipping costs.
    You can however use their website to get started since they provide quite some information. just look at the 14.8V (4S) versions.

    Johan

  3. #3

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    I think I'm not allowed to post direct links, but ebay seller any_battery2012 has some PCB's for 4S battery packs and free international shipping.

    Johan

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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Champion thanks PM sent.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    If you are going to power the XML lighthead you purchased from me with that pack, you will burn it up. The driver in the lighthead is designed for a max 7.4 volts!
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  6. #6

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    battery space has pcb's.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Hector ez my worry and send me the wright one, this is driving me nuts looking for one!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by alpg88 View Post
    battery space has pcb's.
    Battery space is a rip off with shipping.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Klem's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Why didn't you get a 2-cell battery like we advised you earlier?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Klem cus I now need longer burn time

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* Klem's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Capacity and voltage are two different things. 'Longer burn time' in your case relates to capacity, whereas the number of cells connected in series gives you voltage.

    The drop-in head you want to use only works within a range of 2.6-8.4Volts, which is exactly the range of a two-cell. It's no coincidence and fair to assume to designers had a two-cells in mind as the optimum battery configuration.

    Any higher than 8.4V and you will damage it. Your 4-cell battery is way too high for it. If you want longer burn time then get a bigger battery with more Amp hours (Ah), but whatever you get must be two-cells.

    The average voltage of a two-cell is about 7.2V, so you want 'two-cell' or '7.2V' batteries.

    You could break up the one in the photo and re-build it into a two-cell. It would be 7.2V and about 10Ah. The drop-in chews about 16Watts so that would give you about 4.5 hours of burn time.

    Or you could buy a two-cell battery with built-in PCB.

  12. #12

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    What Klem means is not a 2 cell pack, but a 2-cells-in-series-and-4-cells-in-parallel setup using the cellls in the original post to build a 2S4P pack instead of a 4S2P pack as shown in the picture.
    That way you'll have the right voltage and more capacity.

    I don't know exaclty which setup you have, but suppose you have an XML driven at 3A. If you use 2500mAh cells and a 2S4P batterypack, you'll have 74Wh (7.4V*2500mAh*4) in your batterypack. The XML at 3A has a Vf of 3.35V. multiplying that with the current gives us about 10W that the LED is using. suppose about 85% efficiency of the driver, you'll draw about 12W from the battery. Doing that continuously, you'll end up with a burn time of about 74Wh/12W=±6h.
    Is that something that sounds reasonable to you? Then go for a 2S4P pack instead of a 4S2P pack.
    If you still need a PCB for such a pack, get one for 2 cells instead of 1 for 4 cells.

    Johan

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* Klem's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    He wants to use a 1200lumen DX 5*XR-E drop-in.

    2SXP ('two-cell')

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    No, he will be using the XML module... But yes, 2S LiIon as well.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  15. #15

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    [copy from my private message]
    Hi,

    Yes, I noticed it is getting a bit confusing with all people telling different but actually the same things.
    I'll try to make it clear.

    In the initial picture that you showed, I see 8 cells on a table in 2 rows, but from the picture, it seems that they are not yet connected to eachoter. Is this correct?

    Since you are getting the light from 350xfire, you should follow his advice. Many of the dealextreme or kaidomain LED drivers are designed to be used with 2 li-ion cells in series or 8.4V maximum. If you supply more voltage to the LED driver, you will likely destroy it because usually the capacitors are only rated up to a certain voltage.
    That is why everyone keeps telling you to use a 2 cell or 2S4P batterypack. They do not mean that you should use a protection circuit for 2 cells on a 4 cells battery pack, but that you actually make a 2 cell (series) with 4 cells in parallel battery pack with a 2cell protection circuit.

    Once the voltage (and number of cells) is right for the driver, you can play with burn time by putting 2 additional cells in parallel with the batterypack. The voltage will stay the same, but the capacity will add up (e.g. a 2500mAh cell in parallel with a 2500mAh cell will result in a 5000mAh batterypack which will double the capacity of a single cell battery pack and will double the burn-time of your light.

    Now, for your specific configuration, you'll want to connect your cells like this:


    Now you have your 2S4P batterypack. For the protection circuit, you'll need a circuit that is designed for a 2S setup, like this one:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Protection-C...item4ab86786a6
    or this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Protection-C...item336ac821de

    To connect this board to the pack, you'll need to make a slight modification to the conntections in the above picture. the connection between each 2 cells in series, should also be connected to eachother between the different strings, like in this picture which is an example of a 2S3P pack:


    Where it says balance tap, you should connect your protection circuit and, if your charger supports it, a balancing connector to connect to your charger. You can leave out the balancing connector for now if you're unsure about that, it is there to keep the voltage of each cell the same.

    Hope this helps.

    Johan

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack


  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Klem's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    With respect Lucca, Trimix wants to build a torch using a drop-in head that is designed for a 2-cell Lithium.

    Also, if he doesn't live in the US those prices double when batteryspace adds in postage. $80 for a PCB? Crazy! In his shoes I would buy an ordinary non-equalizing PCB from Fleabay or Batteryjuntion and do my equalizing when I re-charge the batteries.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    ah ok ;-) sometimes it could be very useful if members put in their profile their laocation.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Snce this is a battery related comment and I wanted to put it in the dive light section, I will tack it on to this thread. I recently ordered the Sanyo batteries from Kaidomain (DX also has them). They are rated at 2600mah. I ordered 16 and selected 4 randomly for testing. The first was ran at 1 amp and yielded over 2.4ah. The second was a 2 amp test and yielded 2.48ah. The third cell is being run at 3 amps and is currently on the tester. I have to say for the few extra dollars I am impressed with the Sanyos. I will be switching over to these from now on.

    I was usung the DX green unprotected cells rated at 2500 mah and getting about 2200 mah. They seem to really take a loss when run at higher amps. Those are just a few dollars cheaper. So I'm switching to Sanyos from now on...
    Last edited by 350xfire; 06-26-2012 at 11:34 AM.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    3 amp test = 2.49 ah
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    4 amp test was at around 1.92 ah. Cell temp was getting into the 50-55C range. The computer stopped prematurely as I was installing a printer....
    Last edited by 350xfire; 06-26-2012 at 04:43 PM.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    4.5 amps test yielded 2.4 ah. The cell gets nice and toasty. I am doing a test at 5 amps and calling it done.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    5 amps and still 2.4 ah... However, temp finally broke 60C so I would stick to about 4 amps max on the Sanyos.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Impressive. Thanks.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Not bad at all! I am going to try some of the protected 2 for $10 ones next. The blue trustfires
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    OK, today I tested the Red UltrFires from DX which come with PCB and rated at 2600mah. I tried a 2600mah discharge rate and the cell went to zero volts pretty wuick. Assume the PCB kicked in. I then tested another one at 1 amp and only got 1700 mah. Now I am doing one at .5 amps to see how it does. These don;t seem to be very good.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  27. #27

    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by 350xfire View Post
    Not bad at all! I am going to try some of the protected 2 for $10 ones next. The blue trustfires
    I can get some unprotected 3100 mah (panasonic) cells for around 7 dollars. I weld my own battery packs(build them too) so it would be okay for me to use some without built in pcb and tabs to solder onto. I don't trust anything with fires at the end (haha but that guy 350xfire is okay). They never work as described.

    Also, the closer you are to driving voltage, the higher your efficiency (generally). Though there are some guys around here who have a VERY efficient driver the size of a 1 dollar coin and it's a buck driver not boost. I wanna say 93-98%? Better than the usual 87%
    Last edited by Dashrynn; 06-28-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    After testing 3 of the UF reds with PCB I can honestly say, I'll never buy those again. At .5a discharge rate, the best I did was 1.7ah. These cells are a few years old but not used very much. I am now testing the blue TrustFires to see how they compare. These are 2500mah.

    I was under the impression that the 3100 mah batteries were only for low current use and they will lose a lot of capacity when driven hard.

    I am impressed that the Sanyos provided 2.4ah after the first charge and up to 5 amps draw. I am convinced that these are THE cells!!!
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

  29. #29

    Sigh Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by 350xfire View Post
    After testing 3 of the UF reds with PCB I can honestly say, I'll never buy those again. At .5a discharge rate, the best I did was 1.7ah. These cells are a few years old but not used very much. I am now testing the blue TrustFires to see how they compare. These are 2500mah.

    I was under the impression that the 3100 mah batteries were only for low current use and they will lose a lot of capacity when driven hard.

    I am impressed that the Sanyos provided 2.4ah after the first charge and up to 5 amps draw. I am convinced that these are THE cells!!!
    Seeing as most of my cells don't see a 5a draw, I don't worry about that. Normally it's .5C to 1.0C discharge. I prefer it like that for less strain on my packs thus longer lifes. My standard is to stay at 3 hours of run time (.3C).

    Still with a 1 hour run time and 2 batteries, that's a 1C draw. For those who don't understand, 1C would be 2.4 Ah for a 3.7v 2.4 amp battery. So therefore, your test is a (5amp) 2C ish discharge test (Which I'm sure you know).

    Point is, for scuba diving applications, testing past 1C is unneccessary.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* 350xfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCB for Battery Pack

    That is abosolutely correct for a single XML or soemthing similar being run with 2 18650. However, I was trying to find the best-ish battery for the 8XML video light and those are can pull 6 amps depending on battery/LED configuration so I wanted something better.... I am running the XMLs 4S2P and the batteries 6S3P. I think for the extra $1 the Sanyos beat pretty much anything out there. So from now on, I'll be using those.
    http://tlslights.com/ your source for quality affordable dive lights, Mag-lite conversions and weapon lights. Now a Federal Firearms Dealer.

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