Did I buy the wrong light? What do I need??

I work outdoors at night. I use flashlights each night, some nights for 5 minutes some night for 2 hours. I let my last light (mag light 4 cell with terra lux drop in) roll off the back of my truck one night and lost it as I drove away. I jumped online and bought several replacements. A Coleman Bubba Max, a similar light from home depot, etc. The other night I found myself on Amazon and saw a 1300 Lumen XM-L waterproof 18650 light with charger and 2 batteries for like $30! Wow that's brighter than anything I've owned! Sold!!!

I've spent 3 day researching what I bought. It seems these 18650's are delicate little flowers. Lucky for me, my light only uses 1 battery at a time. I then went on a bought 2 Orbtronic 2900 Mah batteries and an Orbtronic high end charger (looking for the protection). I've read literally about 100 threads on here, I've read on batteryuniversity, all over the web. I guess I shoulda went with PILA and AW, but I don't feel too bad about those decisions. My bigger concern is if this light is actually the one for me.

I carry a volt meter on my truck but will be the first to tell you I don't know much about using it. I leave ALL my tools (including flashlights) in my work truck at all times, meaning they are exposed to extreme heat and cold. I drop flashlights probably once a week or at least once a month. Is this too serious duty for 18650's? Should I just keep this thing in the closet and use it for light duty and fun (showing off basically)?

If your answer is yes, could I safely use a Fenix TK35 with CR123A's (non rechargeables) for my work? I would like to store some spare batteries in the same hot/cold work truck. Are the factory made, non rechargeable CR123A's more stable/safe than the 18650's? If not, I don't know what to get. I feel like I'm limited to a magcharger with terralux, but at $160 for the package, it doesn't excite me. Especially considering the fact that its rechargeable. The 18650's sounded good because I imagined 6 of 'em around my truck hooked up to chargers, full charge and ready for swap. Now that I realize this seems unrealistic, the idea of rechargeable would only appeal if it is affordable to have backup juice when I needed it. I'm just as happy paying for fresh batteries in bulk.

So I'm used to 700ish lumens, I want MORE. 1000+. It needs to be dependable, ready to go, and tough. I'd love a beam I could focus and adjust. Sometimes I need to see 200 yards away, and sometimes a flood is very helpful. I'd love NOT to spend $160. Did I buy the wrong one? If so, what do I buy? Thanks for any feedback flashlight pros!

Also, as far as beam, etc, I really like the shots of the Crelant 7G5-V2, but again I'd be stuck with 18650's (a dangerous 3 of them at that). I once looked at Varalights, but the short battery life and extreme heat were turn-offs. The Fenix TK70 also appeals to me but the price is pushing pretty far at this point, and I know nothing of the power source (how safe, expensive, etc.)

Ideally $100 and I'd probably buy today if it really impressed me (provided I did something dumb ordering the other light from Amazon, which I assume i did..)

fiberguy said:

So I'm used to 700ish lumens, I want MORE. 1000+. It needs to be dependable, ready to go, and tough. I'd love a beam I could focus and adjust. Sometimes I need to see 200 yards away, and sometimes a flood is very helpful. I'd love NOT to spend $160. Did I buy the wrong one? If so, what do I buy? Thanks for any feedback flashlight pros!

Click to expand...

I'm thinking, if a Mag Lite treats you well and has the focus features you like, stick with it. A mag lite with a Malkoff dropin (Read up on the dropin's needs - the new LED models don't take them) should do nicely. With 18650s, usually you'll be able to charge one in the time it takes to drain the other. Usually. I've got some hot lights now that drain a battery in 1 hour that I charge in 2. As far as temperature, sitting hot or cold will take down some charge, but not hurt capacity too quickly. And if you're using decent AW protected 18650s that will help.

Finally, Li-Ion "incidents" tend to mostly happen while charging or too hot. With 1 cell per light, you can't reverse-charge and go boom. If the flashlight gets way hot in your hand (Hotter than usual), throw it in a ditch and duck.

I dont see how You can be "used to 700ish lumens" with the lights You mentionned
(when You have not yet gotten the Fenix)

advise: get a good 1*18650 host + a good (multilevel) P60 insert (= one from member nailbender)

in the mo
ment the 18650 package cant be beat, You wont gain anything from using CRs.

Yellow, The Mag with Terralux was about 700 with 3 levels of brightness. Then I lost it. As far as heavy duty, uber bright, that's what I had and became somewhat used to. I'd like to step it up if I'm going to spend the money and get something even brighter

Thanks for the Malkoff suggestion. I have not looked into those but will now.

I did have issues with the mag. The beam was not focusable and was a bit floody at times. I really wanted something to step things up. More throw, maybe more flood but not a must, adjustable beam would be awesome but I could easily live without it. My concern with 18650's does lie a lot in temperature and charging. See, I would have the chargers on my truck, and the batteries would be stored in a potentially hot truck then start charging right when I start my truck. In that case, it'd be a hot battery on a charger and that concerns me a little. I'm also not real interested in the idea of having to check voltages every time I wanna swap batteries, or start charging one, or any other given time. If you use the CR123A's do you have to check the voltages? Would they be okay in a potentially hot vehicle? Currently I leave AA's, C's, D's, and 9V's in this truck year round and have never had a problem. Could I expect the same from the Li-ions? Thanks for the feedback guys!

My packages came. I bought the wrong light. Maybe it's just me, but after seeing pictures of a guy with his arms bandaged up to his elbows, or a 33rd floor balcony destroyed, I have a hard time feeling comfortable with 18650. Maybe it has to do with the fact I've already dropped one of my "protected" batteries. I have some on a charger, the little lights are red, it's not on fire...yet. Regardless I'm not ready for all this. I'd rather get out and jump back in when I feel a little better. The light didn't specify which way to load the battery. The first time I loaded it wrong (it didn't work, but didn't catch on fire or anything) but the second time was fine. It's FAIRLY bright but no 1300 lumens. Eh. I'll probably box all this stuff in the most explosion proof manner I can and start looking into something I'm comfortable with. Sooo, with that in mind, what do you guys think of the TK35 with CR123A's sitting in a hot work truck or getting dropped from time to time? Voltages will never be checked and I'll drop the light a time or two. Do you think it can handle it? Thanks again for the feedback gurus!

I use 18650's all day long, for work, like you, and leave them in the work truck, sometimes charging them with a car charger in the truck, etc...and I have never had even a single failure.

The issues you read about pretty much all involve el cheapo cells in el cheapo chargers, etc...and no problems for good ones.

Primary cells like CR123's (Disposable) are known to blow up/catch fire as well, but, again, super rarely for good ones.

Alkalines are famous for leaking acid and ruining lights, etc.

Disposable lithium ion cells (AA, AAA, etc), have been pretty safe to use, as have most of the enloops.


The Crelant 7G5 V2 can run with two 18650s, its how I run mine...and the Newest Crelant 7G9 should throw even better, and/or you can get the optional (Second, so you have both heads) aspheric head for the 7G5 V2 and throw like a MoFo....like two lights in one.

You sound like you need a lot of throw, and it would help to know what you were looking at/trying to see...but so far I get you need flood for close up and throw for ~ 200 yards, but am not sure of the beam size/pattern that would help you the most.

Its hard to get a light that does both of those functions WELL, due to the design parameters required to do either. Making a throw reflector floody is not as efficient/effective as if the reflector was designed to be floody...and vis a versa.

This is why most of us use more than one light. One can be optimized to work as a closer range flood light, and the other for throw, etc.

For throw, lumens are not the important stat, lux is typically the throw stat you look at.

For flood, lumens can be more relevant.

There are lights with massive lumen output, which provides throw due to shear horsepower....but, a throwy light with a fraction of the lumen output might out throw it by a long distance. If a floody beam with a lot of juice would do double duty for you, so a wall of light would be OK if it reached 200 yards...then lights like Nitecore's Tiny Monster, Jetbeam RRT 3 XML, etc, could work....depending on the detail you needed to see at that range. These lights are more "Coke Can" shaped than the maglite form factor.

The Fenix TK70 you mentioned runs on NiMH cells, a safer chemistry than Li-Ion, but with lower energy density. It has massive out put that throws a wall of light very well. You load the tube up with a bunch of D-Cells, and you can recharge them on the fly and rotate/swap the spent/charged cells as you go, etc. It is closer to the maglite form factor, if perhaps a mag on steroids. 200 Yards is well within its operating range.

Thrunite has the TN30, and TN31, which are foody and throwy, respectively, with a form factor more similar to the coke can than the maglite form factors, but with very high performance.


What is it you are trying to SEE?

Thank you so much for the detailed, informative response!! I especially appreciate the part about lumens vs lux and when each is important. That is very valuable information!

Yeah, at 200 yards I'm typically looking for something rather small on the low voltage aerial lines. Usually its near the street and I can spot it with the remote light on the roof of my truck, but sometimes they run behind back yards, through trees, and into areas with other obstacles that limit my ability to get close (fences, waterways, etc.) What I'm looking for on the lines is black and about the size of a case of beer. There are usually 2 straps around it, 1 inch wide and highly reflective. A good thrower can help make those straps more visible even if the splice closure isn't.

Other times I just need something to light up my immediate work area, usually about a 12 foot diameter will do the job. I could be trying to read cables that are worn down but mere inches from my face, or I could be doing simple tasks with hand tools. Again, usually the lights on my truck work fine, but sometimes I have to read cable from in the bucket and sometimes I have to work in areas that aren't accessible to my truck. In those cases I need to set up a table, light(s) and equipment in a more remote (and usually dark area)

I've decided to do just as you suggested in getting 2 lights. One for distance and one for work. It's going to cost me more but I'll space it out. For a quick fix I ordered the Fenix TK41 for throw. After looking at some very quality reviews here on CPF and tons of beamshots, I figured it would best suit my throw and battery needs and may also even give me a tiny bit of spill, but that's just pure bonus. I even looked at Dereelights but the ordering process seemed like another language to me. I figured a larger hotspot was probably a good thing as the lines tend to droop and sag between poles. I also ordered 16 Eneloops and a Maha Powerex MH-C801D. In hindsight I kinda wish I would've went with a pair of C9000's or something that would handle D's as well, but I really wanted something in a hurry and rushed my decision a little. Most multichargers for 8 AA-D's seemed to get a handful of bad reviews on Amazon for one reason or another, plus they're bigger than I wanted. Either way, I'm really excited to have my new toys tomorrow!

For my up close work I'm going to have to look more.

I figure I can continue to make due with my 160ish lumen Rayovac for up close work for now. Ultimately, I'd like to stick with my general battery set-up using rechargeable alkaline style batteries (NIMH?). In a week or two I'll order a light for my up close work, one with the power to make my work area glow like the sun but the modes to not blind myself when using it extremely close. Longer battery life and smaller size would be nice but aren't pivotal. After that I'd like to get a few toy lights. I've had dozens but my buddies little 3 AAA Dorcy always seems to outshine mine. I want to be able to "throw" him under the table (maybe Dereelight) and also use it for an emergency signal light for boating should something go wrong. I also think the TK70 just seems so bad@$$. It makes me want one. Hopefully by the end of summer I can have a little collection of "better than walmart" flashlights. Thanks again for the help and any suggestions for the remaining lights are greatly appreciated. I have plenty of time to look; this hobby takes weeks of recovery between purchases.

LOL

Nice.

OK, the alkaline batteries tend to leak and ruin your nice new expensive lights...so, try to at least use disposable lithium ion cells of the size you need, if not getting rechargeable ones.


Nickle Metal Hydride (NiMH) cells are rechargeable, but not alkaline or lithium chemistry based....they are what I think of when I remember what replaced Nickel Cadmium (NiCad) cells for early cheap rechargeables...


The real POWER for the newer high powered lights is ENABLED by the rechargeable lithium ion cells that pack enormous energy into the tiny cylinders.

If you get good ones, and you follow simple precautions...they are fine. Again, those scary images you were worrying about were all regarding the BAD cells that we want you to avoid. TESTS were done on 18650's on this forum (HJK) and you can SEE which cells are good/safer to use.

The TK70 works with NiMH D Cells for example, but on Alkalines, it can't get into top gear (The highest brightness is not reachable/locked out), as alkaline cells don't have the juice to fully power it.


A really great close range light for you would be the Zebralight SC600, which uses a single 18650 cell, the whole light is ~ 4", a mere smidgen larger than the cell, and it pumps out 750 lumens in a flood pattern. It can tail stand like a candle, or, you can use a clip or lanyard to aim it where you need it.

It also has a wide range of brightness adjustment, from less than a lumen, up to 750 lumens on turbo. So, reading a map, or lighting things up - up to ~ 50 yards away, are all doable with it.

The TK41 should at least be able to light up your target at 200 yards....its a decent thrower...and the beam is pretty concentrated.

Again, awesome info! Thanks! Yeah when I said alkaline style I was talking about the NiMH; I'd probably never put alkalines in a quality light (short of serious emergency). I have several cheap lights that can just take a couple AA's and run for days in most situations where rechargeable juice isn't available.

I'll probably get to a point where I'm more comfortable with better battery options. I'm playing with this Orbtronix setup I have a bit. I am afraid that I'll damage the protection circuit by dropping it or something and not know I did it. I saw the HJK test on the Orbtronix cells and they seem conclusively good. It's just getting used to something when you've only seen horror stories can be difficult. Judging by the better lights in the industry, I know I need to get over that.

I also have a certain fear as I drive around in a truck where I cannot monitor charging batteries. I run the inverter or generator typically from 10 PM to 6 or 7 AM and the enclosed box in the back is fully powered and unattended periodically throughout the night. Furthermore, often I'm driving, often off road. Everything is always secured but I worry about a battery system being able to handle the bumps, the lack of attention, and an explosion in a truck that I rely on daily. With enough playing around with them at home, maybe I'll get over that, but the fact that I drop things a decent amount while I work probably doesn't help

LOL

Think of it this way...have you ever heard of gasoline?

Its very flammable, and there are countless stories of people pulling away from pumps and ripping off lines, and blowing up a city block, or self immolation if a spark ignites it....and if you have some pics of Ford Pinto's fulminating if they were hit from behind, or other cars bursting into flames when a fuel line leaks gas onto a hot engine manifold, etc...

...on and on and on about how dangerous gasoline is, and how people die from it daily all over the world.....and, yet, you might put it in YOUR car or truck, despite all those pics and stories of all the maimed and murdered victims who used it before you.


Your car battery might produce explosive gases, hydrogen for example...remember the Hindenburg (OH! The HUMANITY!!!!), and, yet, despite the horror stories about hydrogen gas explosions, you use a car battery to start up your rig?


Do you go out doors?

There are mosquitoes and ticks that can carry diseases that can kill you!


And so forth...ALL of these are very small risks that we assume daily...but we are used to them, so they don't seem exotic or especially scary on a daily basis.

If you never heard of gasoline, but saw all the safety info and horror stories and pics....would you buy a car that used it? Would you see if the horror stories were pretty much a very very very small portion of the overall numbers...and take a chance?

What about Li-Ion cells? SAFER than gasoline in a car btw.




On the other hand, why take a risk you don't HAVE TO.

Some of the chargers can run off the cig lighter for example...so you can tend to them if you need to.

Plan C, I use a Cotton Picker Solar Charger, which means its not even plugged in at all...I can charge all my cells using sunlight when I'm out in the field.