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Thread: Flood vs. Throw

  1. #31

    Default Re: Flood vs. Throw

    Okay. my main concern is that I wouldn't be able to see far enough with these lights
    i found the AA2 turbo (no X) on the 4sevens website for 49.00. would this get better distance than the plain ( non turbo) X?
    Sorry if I'm going in circles, but I'm new and kinda confused....

    Edit: I dont need super far, but medium range like 30-40 yards.
    Is this possible with the Quark series or should I look at something different?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by slickseal View Post
    i found the AA2 turbo (no X) on the 4sevens website for 49.00. would this get better distance than the plain ( non turbo) X?
    Read the post just above yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by slickseal View Post
    Edit: I dont need super far, but medium range like 30-40 yards.
    Is this possible with the Quark series or should I look at something different?
    In terms of flood/throw, every light is going to be similar. A smaller EDC light with narrower/shallower head will be floodier. The Cree XML emitter is more efficient at higher lumens but has a larger emitter.... the larger the emitter, the even larger (wider deeper) the head must be to make it throwy.

    I personally am fine with using 24 lumens on my QAAX for 30-40 yrds, 280 w/14500 lights up a square acre for me just fine.. but then again, I'm a moonlight lover and so my usual L,M, H are 0.3, 3, 24 lumens. I can see animal eyes reflecting back at me in the woods with my non turbo X at say 75 yds, but the turbo X I can probably see if it's got antlers, and perhaps how many points.

    For me the bottom line on a general purpose light is this - viewing things at a distance is nice to know, but not really necessary, I could easily live without it. However, when I really need a light, it's because I need to find something, or do something, at close distance, often with my hands... and a floodier light is better for that. And for me, especially as someone who likes to let their eyes night adapt, 24 lumens is usually enough and 100 almost always enough... 280 is for showing off.

    But you seem to want a real thrower... there's a bunch of threads for that, and at probably lower prices... I just don't know them - I've stuck pretty much to the Quarks because I want AA compatibility and long running moonlight mode on all my lights (in case of emergency).

    Good luck on your search.
    Last edited by reppans; 06-20-2012 at 08:31 PM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Flood vs. Throw

    what reppans said^

    Other than 'wanting throw', you are somewhat non-specific on your needs, so its hard to say if these lights are what you want. Any of the quarks (and many other similar lights) should throw a good amount of light at 40 yards, especially if your eyes are night adjusted. They certainly throw more than your basic multi-led lights from the supermarket. At 40 yards you should be able to identify your path and anything else that goes bump in the night. However, if you have a more specific need, like night hunting or just a need for very detailed observation, then they might not be bright enough to properly illuminate your subject.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Flood vs. Throw

    Alright. I decided on the Quark AA2 turbo!
    I just wanted to thank you guys/girls for all of your help, and for putting up with a newb like me.
    From this search I've learned a lot and hopefully I can make some good contributions to this forum!
    Thanks again and God Bless.

  5. #35
    Flashaholic* M@elstrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flood vs. Throw

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    ... others (like me) would type:
    totally unnecessary "feature" that only adds
    * something that will fail eventually
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceWillEs View Post
    Some users here said, that they don't want a focus system in their flashlight, because that's just one more part that can fail. I always agreed, and accepted this to be the one and only real disadvantage of a focus system. But when I disassembled the M7R, and saw how simple the focus system is build, I really asked myself what part of the focus system can fail at all!
    full CPF review - HERE


    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    * worsens protection from the elements




    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    * makes unuseful beam, as pretty no spill at all (good for extreme throw, but not good for anything else)





    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    If that feature were that good, there were more and better makes


    • Maglight various models
    • Streamlight various models
    • Microfire Pioneer
    • Trustfire Z1/Z5
    • Various clone based lights




    Back around 2008 the "Hokus Focus" lights were the basis of a very popular mod here at CPF as seen HERE in a DIY tutorial, so there is obviously a market segment that appreciates this feature
    Last edited by M@elstrom; 06-22-2012 at 01:49 AM.
    My modest collection HERE & 55w HID spotlight project HERE

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Flood vs. Throw

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus001 View Post
    You always provide good reading Teej!
    Teej loves questions like this

    and i like reading the answers!

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ

    OK, good questions!

    Throw requires either a lot of lumens, or, concentration of the lumens you have into a smaller area.

    So, a floody light with 150 yards range is a big lumen monster....depending upon what you need to SEE at 150 yards, and, how much area you need to cover at close range, and at 150 yards, etc.

    So, after that set of concepts, its all a matter of degree.

    Just think of the lumens as the gallons per minute coming out of your hose....and the deeper the water ON what you are spraying....the more LUX.

    The next concept is beam SHAPE. Choosing a light really needs to start with beam shape, not lumens.

    After beam shape, you need to know a rough guess as to what LUX you want on what you're looking AT.

    LUX is what you SEE when the light hits your target and bounces back to your eyes.

    So, if you just need to not bump into things close up, a fraction of a Lux is ok after your eyes are adjusted to the dark...like waking up in your tent and wanting to get to the latrine at 3 am.

    An average night, from the moon and starlight, etc, you might be given ~ 0.25 lux.

    If you can see at night w/o a flashlight for example...well, then you might not need a light at all on an average night such as used in the reference.

    If you want more light than that, say to read a sign further away...or to see if that's a dog or a wolf following you down a dark trail...you need more light.

    Here's a chart that lists examples of Lux by types of tasks:

    So, if your task requires a level of detail that corresponds to a similar task above, consider that a similar lux value might work.

    Also consider that (Not shown in chart...I need to make one for that still....) as what you need to see gets further away, the part of your vision that you need to use to resolve it, requires more light than you need for close tasks.

    The fovea, essentially, your central field of view in a ~ 2º cone from your eye...is not very good at seeing in the dark. It has the poorest light reception in your total field of view....and needs a lot more light to see things.

    If you are looking at a critter 150 yards away trying to tell if its a rabid racoon or a twicky rabbit - you are using your central and sharpest part of your vision.

    OK, so, if your light has only 100 lumens, it CAN hit a target that far away..but, with all 100 lumens concentrated into a small circle of light.

    That same light will put an even SMALLER circle of light on the ground in front of you, so it would be terrible for talking a hike where you didn't want to step on a snake of trip over a root...the light bean is so small that you are trying to see where you are going through a paper towel tube type view.

    If you have 2,000 lumens, you don't NEED to concentrate them into a teeny patch of light....you can spread them out. You can have a wider beam shape. That means no more paper towel tube view...you see a lot at a time.

    Of course, it might STILL reach out 150 yards, but, depending on HOW spread out the beam is, the target might look brighter, or, dimmer.

    Again, its a question of degree.

    So, there are throwy lights, and floody lights, but, those terms in of themselves are not always going to tell you what you wanted to know.

    For example, I have some floody lights that can throw over 300 yards, and some throwy lights that can't.

    I have an 300 lumen thrower that can hit targets ~800 yards away, and a 850 lumen thrower that can't.

    There are other factors...spill for example. Most light's produce a beam with 3 parts, a central hot spot, a corona that surrounds it, with a somewhat less bright donut of light....and spill, a generally unfocused field of light that is shaped by the shape of the light's head.

    If a throw light has decent spill, it can ACT like a floody light's beam for walking around, providing enough light to see where you're going, even though the main beam is pointed hundreds of yards away.

    And

    If you are asking about AA vs CR123A - well, neither will give a good account of themselves at 150 yards if ONE of them is powering your light.

    An alkaline AA cell is too weak to power modern high performance lights, and to use them, a LOT of them have to be bundled together.

    An "Enloop" or rechargeable AA, can be better, but still doesn't have the energy density of a lithium ion cell.

    The CR123A is a disposable lithium ion cell, and, has a high enough energy density to make a small yet bright light.

    A RECHARGEABLE lithium ion cell has even more power (Higher voltage) and can make the same sized light a lot brighter. (RCR123 instead of CR123, as in "R" for Rechargeable)

    To get 150 yards of throw...the cells you need will depend on how bright you need your target to be, and, how large an area you need illuminated at that range.

    You then consider the flood light use you want...how large an area, and how brightly lit.

    You need to start there...and work backwards.

    Most of us simply follow the flashaholic mantra: (Get both). Get a throwy light optimized for your distance/target, and a floody light optimized for the close range task(s) expected.

    What light do you have that is 300 lumens that can throw 800 yards???!! I want one!

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* DellSuperman's Avatar
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    Default Thrower vs Flooder

    Hi all,

    Sorry if this post have been repeated.
    My question is, what are the kind of LED that are considered a flooder & what are considered thrower?
    Considering that i am using the same reflector (P60 drop in kind).
    From what I read, a XML-T6 is considered a flooder, whereas a XRE-R2 is a thrower.

    Thank you!

  9. #39
    Flashaholic* uk_caver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrower vs Flooder

    Quote Originally Posted by DellSuperman View Post
    Hi all,

    Sorry if this post have been repeated.
    My question is, what are the kind of LED that are considered a flooder & what are considered thrower?
    Considering that i am using the same reflector (P60 drop in kind).
    From what I read, a XML-T6 is considered a flooder, whereas a XRE-R2 is a thrower.

    Thank you!
    Basically for a given optic/reflector, an LED with a larger emitting area will tend to be floodier.

    The XM-L has a 2mmx2mm 'die' (the bit that generates the light), whereas the XP-E (and older XR-E) have a ~1mmx1mm die, and the XP-G have a ~1.4mmx1.4mm die.

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