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Thread: HDS Clicky 140, 200 & N170 Low Mode Runtime Tests

  1. #31
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    So they ended up running about another 30 min., stepping down here and there, then began to blink steadily for a couple minutes, and the they died again. I think these batteries are about spent.

  2. #32
    Flashaholic Johnbeck180's Avatar
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    138-144 hrs.. Cool!!!! Henry advertises them as going 128 hrs right?

  3. #33

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    I'm a huge runtime fan...

    I'm actually quite surprised it was so short. I thought I had read somewhere here that an HDS clicky would run a month, and the rotaries a week.

    So how do ZL and 4/7s manage to squeeze out twice as many hours AND twice as many lumens from half as much battery?

  4. #34

    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Yes, the older clickys/twistys could go on forever. Modern ones sacrifice efficiency at low levels for customization and more efficiency at high levels. The more available power levels you have (HDS have 24?), the less efficient the driver is (broadly speaking) because the switching has to be done at the electronic/program level instead of from hardware.

    Regulation (current and voltage) also comes into play. For example, the Arc6, notoriously known for it's lackluster runtimes is a beast when it comes to low level endurance due to level 1 being unregulated.
    Last edited by Torchaddict; 06-25-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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  5. #35
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    I'm a huge runtime fan...
    Then this version of the HDS isn't for you. I plan to have other lights for extreme runtime needs. Under daily circumstances I'm up to 8 hours from a charger when I leave the driveway to go to work.
    So how do ZL and 4/7s manage to squeeze out twice as many hours AND twice as many lumens from half as much battery?
    Simpler driver, less-regulated output, and no parasitic draw for certain parts of the Rotary UI. I wonder if Henry (Or someone clever; CPF members have rewritten driver firmware for DX lights) could disable the rotary knob on the lowest level?
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  6. #36

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    Thanks for the explanation folks... over a hundy hrs ain't all that bad. Anyone know if the recent rotaries have proportionally reduced runtimes too (from a week to around 1-2 days?).

  7. #37
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    Once my new-style rotary arrives (August? Fingers crossed)...
    Would you be so kind as to give us a short Reader's Digest synopsis of what changes are coming in the "new-style" rotary. Those 19,000 post HDS threads are all but impossible for the casual user to learn anything from without devoting hundreds of hours to the read.
    --Semper Fi--
    Bill

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    i was expecting alittle more runtime. but around 140 is pretty good.
    thanks for doing this. you've inspired me to do a low low runtime test on my surefire minimus starting at the top of the hour.

    edit:
    runtime test completed on surefire minimus vision on its lowest setting.
    103 - 111 hours before turn out.
    cell read 2.26 volts when depleted.

    runtime on max = 2 hours 28 minutes.

    test were done with fresh rayovac primaries.
    Last edited by skyfire; 07-09-2012 at 03:29 PM.

  9. #39
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    More runtimes tests are good, they're fun!

    Glad to be of help.

  10. #40
    Flashaholic* RobertM's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    Yes.

    Send me any cells you want and I'll do the test with them.

    AFAIK, SF is the only brand that even puts expirations on their CR123s so you may be using 9 yr. old cells and not even know it.

    Anyways, I used these because I figured no one would question the quality of the cells as SF cells are universally accepted as high quality. And if their engineers feel that the cells are still good after 10 years, I guess I'll take their word for it.

    I could do it again later with other cells if these are questionable to folks.



    I have more lights. To be honest, these don't get a ton of carry anyways.
    nbp,

    My questioning of using older cells was only because it seems to be introducing 2 variables into your test. Testing the low runtime of these lights is interesting (how long will they really run for?). Testing a 9 year old SF cell is also interesting (how much capacity has it retained after 9 years ). It's just that when they are combined, I think that it lessens what we learn.

  11. #41
    Flashaholic* John_Galt's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    I'm interested in seeing if the older gen Clickies/Twisties are more efficient [I'd imagine they would be]. I don't have a twisty, but I do have a Ra Clicky 140n. I think this week I'll start a run time test, myself.

    I just hope I don't forget about it. Or grow tired of not having my clicky with me.
    I love my HDS/Ra Clicky... My only wish would be a 5th(accessible thru a 2click press) mode, and a 2AA tube.

  12. #42
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    I'll do a test with a 100W that is just sitting in a drawer...heading to install a new battery.

    Edit:

    Started 3:09 Pacific time using a 4sevens battery expiration date 3/17.
    Last edited by notsofast; 06-26-2012 at 03:17 PM.
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

  13. #43
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertM View Post
    nbp,

    My questioning of using older cells was only because it seems to be introducing 2 variables into your test. Testing the low runtime of these lights is interesting (how long will they really run for?). Testing a 9 year old SF cell is also interesting (how much capacity has it retained after 9 years ). It's just that when they are combined, I think that it lessens what we learn.

    I see what you are saying. I don't know if the cell has lost any significant amount of capacity, but I see what you're saying. In your opinion, how fresh do you think the cell has to be for it to be an accurate representation? I'm not sure where to draw the line.


    I have some fresher (only had them a few months) Battery Station cells, but they don't have expiration dates I don't think, so I don't technically know when they were manufactured. If you, or anyone, wants me to do the test with specific cells, I would be more than happy to accept them and run the test again.

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Galt View Post
    I'm interested in seeing if the older gen Clickies/Twisties are more efficient [I'd imagine they would be]. I don't have a twisty, but I do have a Ra Clicky 140n. I think this week I'll start a run time test, myself.

    I just hope I don't forget about it. Or grow tired of not having my clicky with me.
    Give it a try and let us know!

    Quote Originally Posted by notsofast View Post
    I'll do a test with a 100W that is just sitting in a drawer...heading to install a new battery.

    Edit:

    Started 3:09 Pacific time using a 4sevens battery expiration date 3/17.
    What level are you running it at notsofast? I have a 100Tw and an 85Tr, but as far as I know they are still programmed to their factory settings, and I don't feel like going through the hassle of all the twisting to reprogram them to their lowest possible levels for a test. I could do it at the factory low level on either one if people care. I also have an 18650 tube for them, but that could take weeks...

  14. #44
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    What level are you running it at notsofast?
    I am doing the lowest level.
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

  15. #45
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    How are the tests coming guys?

  16. #46
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Nothing has changed here...still going.
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

  17. #47

    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    I'm a huge runtime fan...

    I'm actually quite surprised it was so short. I thought I had read somewhere here that an HDS clicky would run a month, and the rotaries a week.

    So how do ZL and 4/7s manage to squeeze out twice as many hours AND twice as many lumens from half as much battery?
    HDS lights are rated for constant brightness. If Henry says you get 50 lumens then you get 50 lumens until the batteries are exhausted.

  18. #48
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Well it has been 10 days, 242 hrs so far.

    I am leaving town for the week end to fly my hang glider so I will be distracted a bit more. If it goes out hopefully I won't miss the hour by much.
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

  19. #49
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Yowza! The Twisty is blistering the New Clicky!

    Keep us up to date!

  20. #50
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    This is a 100W Ra clicky.
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

  21. #51
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by notsofast View Post
    This is a 100W Ra clicky.
    Oh, my mistake, I thought it was a Twisty 100. Either way, it should be the same as the Twisty I think with the same guts and emitter. SSC P4 I assume?

    I really love that emitter in the HDS lights.

  22. #52
    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    I've been interested in getting an HDS light for a while. But one main thing is holding me back, I just have no interest in CR123. It doesn't seem like low-end efficiency is the strong point of this light. For example 47's Preon P0 runs longer, brighter and on a Lithium AAA. A cell that has about 20% the electrical volume,if that, of a CR123. I suppose it comes down to the overhead from an electronic switch, programming and all that. As the brightness goes down, the proportion of energy spent on that versus actual LED power becomes greater and greater.
    Last edited by Wiggle; 07-07-2012 at 09:06 AM.

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggle View Post
    I've been interested in getting an HDS light for a while. But one main thing is holding me back, I just have no interest in CR123. It doesn't seem like low-end efficiency is the strong point of this light. For example 47's Preon P0 runs longer, brighter and on a Lithium AAA. A cell that has about 20% the electrical volume,if that, of a CR123. I suppose it comes down to the overhead from an electronic switch, programming and all that. As the brightness goes down, the proportion of energy spent on that versus actual LED power becomes greater and greater.
    Perhaps it is not as efficient, but if you choose the HDS over the Preon, you wouldn't do it for the runtime anyways. You'd do it for the programmable interface and the ridiculous toughness of the HDS, neither of which the Preon can match. If those are not important to you, the HDS may not be the best choice for you, though many will agree they are some of the best lights made.

  24. #54
    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Oh absolutely. I'm not claiming the P0 to be a superior light. The toughness, reliability and quality of the HDS lights is well documented, just citing a comparison for low-lumen efficiency.

  25. #55
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    You're right though, some of those other lights seem to have incredible runtimes. I don't know the intricacies of drivers well enough to explain why, but they do seem to go forever.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    You're right though, some of those other lights seem to have incredible runtimes. I don't know the intricacies of drivers well enough to explain why, but they do seem to go forever.
    I'd imagine it comes down to two main things: less intricate driver [less power needed just for the drivers operation] and not as well regulated.

    Basically, Henry's driver has to constantly monitor cell voltage while under load, check that against the current it's been pulling, calculate the best way to maintain the desired output, all the while monitoring the temperature of the LED, and finally powering the LED. Quite a bit of current overhead, I'd imagine. The Rotary offers another step in this process, meaning more power needed, even at lower outputs.

    I'd imagine the reason both the Rotary and Clicky lights took a step down in the run-time department with this new generation is because they are the same driver [which makes the most sense from a manufacturing, assembling, and cost viewpoint]. The Rotaries are merely programmed to accept commands from the rotary tailcap switch. This makes sense to me, because the heads are probably all "dumb" until programmed and mated with their respective bodies.

    -----
    I'm also embarrased to admit I have not started my run time test... My Clicky's seen a lot of use over the last couple of night shifts, so it's been with me.

    But it's started now: 4:58am EST 7/8/12 On a newer CR123 [2019 exp]. ~5 minutes high mode [not burst] use otherwise. I promise to check on it as frequently as I can and report back with a time estimate.

    Night

    Edit: It helps to have the automatic turn off disabled, lol. Re-restarted at8:21amEST

    Still going strong
    Last edited by John_Galt; 07-09-2012 at 09:29 AM.
    I love my HDS/Ra Clicky... My only wish would be a 5th(accessible thru a 2click press) mode, and a 2AA tube.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggle View Post
    I've been interested in getting an HDS light for a while. But one main thing is holding me back, I just have no interest in CR123. It doesn't seem like low-end efficiency is the strong point of this light. For example 47's Preon P0 runs longer, brighter and on a Lithium AAA. A cell that has about 20% the electrical volume,if that, of a CR123. I suppose it comes down to the overhead from an electronic switch, programming and all that. As the brightness goes down, the proportion of energy spent on that versus actual LED power becomes greater and greater.

    The comparisons may not be accurate either. I see the P0 is rated at .24 lumens at 120 hours, which is less than a clicky at .3 lumens for 128 hours. There may be other lights that can beat this, but for the complexity of the control circuit I think it does darn good. I used to be a fan of direct drive, but then I realized I wanted more options so I don't blind myself at night.

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by morelightnow View Post
    The comparisons may not be accurate either. I see the P0 is rated at .24 lumens at 120 hours, which is less than a clicky at .3 lumens for 128 hours. There may be other lights that can beat this, but for the complexity of the control circuit I think it does darn good. I used to be a fan of direct drive, but then I realized I wanted more options so I don't blind myself at night.
    I think what Wiggle is referring to actual runtime testimonials. The OP got around 140 hrs at 0.07 lumens in posts 1 and 30. Gotlumens got 180 hrs on the P0 with a AAA lithium primary. Interestingly, while testing a 1xAA Quark (0.2 lumens?), Darvis actually got MORE runtime out of a 1xAA alkaline than he did with a 1xAA lithium primary (470 vs 330 hrs)... now those runtimes are incredible. 4/7s is know for being pretty conservative with their numbers. Although they're not built like Henry's, I love 4/7s lights for their runtimes and great selection of low lumen modes.

    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...world-testing!

    I'm with Wiggle on the battery thing. I'd really like to get an HDS but have no interest in CR123s. It seems the only advantage of 123s is a higher max lumen output on primaries, yet many disadvantages in terms of rechargeables and back-up options.

  29. #59
    Flashaholic* skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    nbp...got another runtime test for ya

    surefire 1st gen L1 that i swapped in a nichia 219.
    fresh rayovac primary was used.

    runtime on low mode:
    148-156 hours. (over 6 straight days)

    i stopped the test this morning because output was so low, it was practically useless.
    for the first couple days its output is about 6-8 lumens. then it would gradually drop down to about 1 lumen for the last couple days.
    i dont have a sphere to measure lumens, so its just a guesstimate when i compare it to other lights with low modes.

    conclusion: i love this light! high cri, perfect ergos, perfect UI (for me), near-perfect beam.
    when considering the the amount of output this light is putting out, and for how long, its hard to think of a more efficient single cr123 light out there.
    i dont need a high cri rotary... but i still really want one though.
    Last edited by skyfire; 07-09-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  30. #60
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW HDS Clicky 140 & 200 Runtime Tests

    Well it finally drained the battery. Darkness happened at 12:00AM last night for a total of 465hrs (19 days 9hrs)

    I think that is respectable!
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

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