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Thread: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

  1. #1

    Default LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Hi - long time lurker first time poster.

    As a summary I have a LED Lenser P17 that I was always very impressed with (although I am aware things have probably moved on in terms of power etc) The switch in it has gone and so i'm after something new.
    Ideally very bright (the wow factor is nice) with a long throw and the ability to go from spot to floor like the P17 has. Importantly it should be a similar size and weight to the P17 (I have some smaller torches).
    Budget is about £100 - ideally i'd be able to purchase it in the UK or europe to avoid any import fees and complication. For something really amazing I might be willing to go up a bit.
    Doesnt need to be waterproof although this would be cool- certainly weatherproof though.

    The P17 is here:
    http://www.ledco.co.uk/content/produ...aspx?prodId=11

    Questionnaire below if it helps:

    1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

    ____I would like to purchase the light from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
    __x__I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.


    2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :-)

    ____Less than $25.
    ____Less than $50.
    ____Less than $100.
    ____Less than $150.
    __x__Less than $300.
    ____I have no limit.
    __x__I’m flexible, tell me what you gotJ.
    ____Other, please specify ________


    3) Format:

    __x__I want a flashlight.
    ____I want a headlamp.
    ____I want a lantern.
    ____I want a dive light.
    ____I want a portable spotlight.


    4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

    ____Keychain size.
    ____Every day carry small (2-4 inches).
    ____Every day carry medium (4-7 inches).
    ____Holster carry.
    __x__Big enough to need its own travel caseJ. (not that I need a travel case)
    ____I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.
    ____N/A


    5) Emitter/Light source:

    ____LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
    ____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
    ____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
    __x__I don't know.


    6) Manufacturer:

    __x__I want to buy a light from a traditional mass producing manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
    __x__I would consider getting a light that is pieced together (for example a “host” or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a “drop-in” emitter from another source). Under the right circumstances, this path can provide more options to the consumer to meet specific needs, and can often be easily upgradeable as technology improves.


    7) What battery type do you want to use?

    ____I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today’s most powerful lights)
    ____I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
    ____I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
    ____I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
    ____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


    8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

    ____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
    ____I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
    ____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
    __x__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
    __x__I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


    9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.

    ____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
    ____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
    ____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
    ____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
    ____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
    ___x_150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


    10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).

    ____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
    ____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
    __x__90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
    __x__3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


    11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

    ____Not Important (A “night-stand” light).
    ____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
    __x__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
    ____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
    ____I don't care.
    ____I don’t know.


    12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):

    ____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
    ____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
    ____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
    ____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
    ____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
    ____I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today’s high end lights).
    ____I don't care.
    __x__I don’t know.
    ____Other, please specify____________________.


    13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

    ____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
    __x__I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
    ____I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
    ____I want a programmable light.
    ____I want a selector ring.
    ____I want a strobe mode. (Blinks to show location.)
    ____I want SOS mode.
    ____I want a beacon mode.
    ____I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.


    14)Material/Finish/Coating

    ____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
    __x__Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today’s flashlights).
    __x__Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
    __x__Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
    __x__I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.
    ____Other, please specify____________.


    15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.

    ____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
    ____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
    ____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
    ____“Hybrid” light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
    ____Pocket/belt clip
    ____Holster
    ____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
    ____Crenulated bezel
    ____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments


    Thanks in advance - this is an awesome forum but there are just so many lights out there now I figured using this section was the best bet.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic peterkin101's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by W0wbagger View Post
    Hi - long time lurker first time poster.

    As a summary I have a LED Lenser P17 that I was always very impressed with (although I am aware things have probably moved on in terms of power etc) The switch in it has gone and so i'm after something new.
    Ideally very bright (the wow factor is nice) with a long throw and the ability to go from spot to floor like the P17 has. Importantly it should be a similar size and weight to the P17 (I have some smaller torches).
    Budget is about £100 - ideally i'd be able to purchase it in the UK or europe to avoid any import fees and complication. For something really amazing I might be willing to go up a bit.
    Doesnt need to be waterproof although this would be cool- certainly weatherproof though.

    The P17 is here:
    http://www.ledco.co.uk/content/produ...aspx?prodId=11

    Questionnaire below if it helps:

    1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

    ____I would like to purchase the light from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
    __x__I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.


    2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :-)

    ____Less than $25.
    ____Less than $50.
    ____Less than $100.
    ____Less than $150.
    __x__Less than $300.
    ____I have no limit.
    __x__I’m flexible, tell me what you gotJ.
    ____Other, please specify ________


    3) Format:

    __x__I want a flashlight.
    ____I want a headlamp.
    ____I want a lantern.
    ____I want a dive light.
    ____I want a portable spotlight.


    4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

    ____Keychain size.
    ____Every day carry small (2-4 inches).
    ____Every day carry medium (4-7 inches).
    ____Holster carry.
    __x__Big enough to need its own travel caseJ. (not that I need a travel case)
    ____I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.
    ____N/A


    5) Emitter/Light source:

    ____LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
    ____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
    ____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
    __x__I don't know.


    6) Manufacturer:

    __x__I want to buy a light from a traditional mass producing manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
    __x__I would consider getting a light that is pieced together (for example a “host” or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a “drop-in” emitter from another source). Under the right circumstances, this path can provide more options to the consumer to meet specific needs, and can often be easily upgradeable as technology improves.


    7) What battery type do you want to use?

    ____I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today’s most powerful lights)
    ____I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
    ____I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
    ____I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
    ____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


    8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

    ____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
    ____I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
    ____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
    __x__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
    __x__I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


    9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.

    ____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
    ____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
    ____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
    ____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
    ____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
    ___x_150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


    10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).

    ____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
    ____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
    __x__90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
    __x__3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


    11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

    ____Not Important (A “night-stand” light).
    ____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
    __x__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
    ____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
    ____I don't care.
    ____I don’t know.


    12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):

    ____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
    ____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
    ____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
    ____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
    ____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
    ____I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today’s high end lights).
    ____I don't care.
    __x__I don’t know.
    ____Other, please specify____________________.


    13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

    ____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
    __x__I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
    ____I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
    ____I want a programmable light.
    ____I want a selector ring.
    ____I want a strobe mode. (Blinks to show location.)
    ____I want SOS mode.
    ____I want a beacon mode.
    ____I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.


    14)Material/Finish/Coating

    ____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
    __x__Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today’s flashlights).
    __x__Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
    __x__Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
    __x__I don’t care.
    ____I don’t know.
    ____Other, please specify____________.


    15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.

    ____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
    ____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
    ____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
    ____“Hybrid” light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
    ____Pocket/belt clip
    ____Holster
    ____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
    ____Crenulated bezel
    ____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments


    Thanks in advance - this is an awesome forum but there are just so many lights out there now I figured using this section was the best bet.
    I looked earlier and noticed over 60 views yet not one reply.

    You've made a lot of hard work for yourself here, going into masses of detail in the form of a questionairre.

    Who wants or needs the torch?

    I imagine its you but the way its phrased its geared towards us.

    I can't think of a single torch which encompasses all the requirements you have.

    FWIW these are my suggestions:

    1) Maglite MagCharger. Brilliant piece of kit, up to 230 odd lumens of illuminations, type II Anodised, glass lens, super bright Incandescent bulb, 2+hours use at full power, new version the V4 has full and half power settings. On sale in the UK (MAKE SURE ITS A V4!) for round the £100-110 mark online and about £125-150 in a shop. An old design but one IMHO Mr Maglica got right first time. TerraLUX do an LED module going up to 1000 lux for about £50ish btw.

    2) Fenix TK41. Fixed beam with 4 power settings up to 800 LUX, LED source,powered by 8 x AA's (best on Quality NiMH AA's btw). Despite the beam being fixed there is IMHO just the right consistency between throw and flood. Fully waterproof to 2m IPX-8 standard. All Aluminium construction and Type III Hard Anodised .

    Both the V4 MagCharger and the TK41 have SOS modes.

    As for things like crenellated bezels, impact tail caps etc, if thats what you want you need to head to Maglite. The MagCharger is almost infinitly modifiable-the TK41 a lot less so as things stand.

    The MagCharger has an artefact-prone beam. Slightly warm and comma shaped spot. A flood with a dirty big hole in it-the downside of a smooth reflector.

    Both torches are quality products. IMHO the MagCharger still holds its own though its a 30 odd year design. It is superior to the regular C and D Maglites which at one time were very common with Police etc.

    By comparison the Fenix TK41 is bang up to date and is certainly well made, the only weak spot being the battery holder IMHO.

    MagCharger is certified for use in explosive environments.

    Don't know about the TK41.

    The choice is yours but IMHO the TK41 edges ahead for it's AA power supply and it's artefact-free piecing white beam.
    Last edited by peterkin101; 06-28-2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Addition
    Maglite MiniMag AA. Terralux LED conversion+Tail cap switch. Maglite 6D+LED TLE310 LED Conversion module, Fenix E15, LED Lenser M17R. Maglite 3 x AA+Hahnel LSD NiMH cells.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Or you can get an Olight SR51 with a diffuser.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    THIS:
    Quote Originally Posted by peterkin101 View Post
    I looked earlier and noticed over 60 views yet not one reply.
    is the reason, why I am typing ...


    Except for everything else, I do not get this phrase:
    Importantly it should be a similar size and weight to the P17 (I have some smaller torches)
    when a smaller light gives MINIMUM the same "results", why bring the big one?
    A single 18650 Li-Ion battery houses near to half the power of the three D-cells.
    And I am pretty certain a small and light 1*18650 light is much easier to bring around.

    Or do You only want a club that can also give light?



    and I am not going into detail about all the negative points of this perticular "light to meet",
    where a 1*18650 or 2*18650 one would give better performance

  5. #5
    Flashaholic peterkin101's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    THIS:is the reason, why I am typing ...


    Except for everything else, I do not get this phrase:when a smaller light gives MINIMUM the same "results", why bring the big one?
    A single 18650 Li-Ion battery houses near to half the power of the three D-cells.
    And I am pretty certain a small and light 1*18650 light is much easier to bring around.

    Or do You only want a club that can also give light?



    and I am not going into detail about all the negative points of this perticular "light to meet",
    where a 1*18650 or 2*18650 one would give better performance
    There is more to it than just the size of the torch.

    18650 power supplies are great in a lot of ways.

    However, with very,very few exceptions there is no warning at all given when an 18650 battery is about to go flat.

    And unless you carry a spare you can be in REAL Trouble if the battery runs out.

    With a 'D' power supply like the Fenix TK50 at least you can run into a Supermarket or Garage with a fair chance of buying a set.
    Maglite MiniMag AA. Terralux LED conversion+Tail cap switch. Maglite 6D+LED TLE310 LED Conversion module, Fenix E15, LED Lenser M17R. Maglite 3 x AA+Hahnel LSD NiMH cells.

  6. #6
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    Default

    I see that totally different ...
    how often can such a scenario happen?
    And why would someone - excepting such a scenario - not have a few spare cells with him/her?
    Even when bringing ten spare 18650s, this will still be smaller and lighter than a single 3 D cell light ...

    I still think it is reduced to: I want a baton, with the ability to tell the bobbies that this is "only a flashlight"
    (possibly even this is not allowed in that nanny state)
    w0wbagger, could You please enlighten us?



    (and I totally disagree with that "no warning at all" ... this then is a user fault .. not knowing the approximate state of the light/battery )

  7. #7
    Flashaholic peterkin101's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    I see that totally different ...
    how often can such a scenario happen?
    And why would someone - excepting such a scenario - not have a few spare cells with him/her?
    Even when bringing ten spare 18650s, this will still be smaller and lighter than a single 3 D cell light ...

    I still think it is reduced to: I want a baton, with the ability to tell the bobbies that this is "only a flashlight"
    (possibly even this is not allowed in that nanny state)
    w0wbagger, could You please enlighten us?



    (and I totally disagree with that "no warning at all" ... this then is a user fault .. not knowing the approximate state of the light/battery )
    Each to their own.

    If you can be utterly confident that you will always at least one spare 18650 with you then fine.

    An 18650 will cost slightly more than a pack of 'D' cells, though I agree they do have advantages.

    The closest I ever came to that was with my Inova T4 which had a similar battery to an 18650.

    And that would have made an ideal baton, much better than the 'D' size cell torches you are inferring.
    Maglite MiniMag AA. Terralux LED conversion+Tail cap switch. Maglite 6D+LED TLE310 LED Conversion module, Fenix E15, LED Lenser M17R. Maglite 3 x AA+Hahnel LSD NiMH cells.

  8. #8

    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Thanks for the replies, wasn't expecting such a negative response for wanting a larger torch though! Or criticism for being too specific as I thought that was the point- i should have implied more flexibility in my selections. Apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick.

    No I'm not after a baton (i'm sure there are better things to hit someone with than a £100+ torch?!) but I like the battery life and ease of getting batteries of D cells,(the P17 had an insane battery life but i'm wary of getting another due to the switch breaking. - I also used to love the old 6 cell maglite you could put over your shoulder. The torch would be used outdoors but generally be kept in the car. I also find it much harder to lose big torches!

    (Torch is for me - partly to make things bright when it's dark, partly to show off )

    To simplify the overly specific questionnaire I posted - i'm after a big, bright, long battery life torch that's fairly durable. Focus to a tight beam would be nice (might be nice to light up the odd rabbit occasionally but i'm not after a spotlight).

    I will check out the suggested torches, hope what i've said clarifies things, any more advice welcome. Will be checking out the maglite and fenix- cheers peterkin101.
    Last edited by W0wbagger; 07-02-2012 at 02:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* M@elstrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by W0wbagger View Post
    As a summary I have a LED Lenser P17 that I was always very impressed with (although I am aware things have probably moved on in terms of power etc) The switch in it has gone and so i'm after something new.
    Ideally very bright (the wow factor is nice) with a long throw and the ability to go from spot to flood like the P17 has. Importantly it should be a similar size and weight to the P17 (I have some smaller torches).

    The spot-to-flood & size requirement will limit your options somewhat but aside from getting another LED Lenser product a Custom Maglite may meet your needs, a single U2 XM-L driven at 3A should produce in the region of 1000Lm more than 4 times that of the P17, regulation will maintain a usable output for the longest time possible AND will allow you to change between output levels (and modes).






    Picture from CPF member jayrob's XML maglite thread found HERE hope that helps somewhat




    Quote Originally Posted by peterkin101 View Post
    I looked earlier and noticed over 60 views yet not one reply.


    You've made a lot of hard work for yourself here, going into masses of detail in the form of a questionairre.
    Not really... the OP has used the questionnaire supplied at the top of THIS from
    Last edited by M@elstrom; 07-03-2012 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Who doesn't love a beamshot?
    My modest collection HERE & 55w HID spotlight project HERE

  10. #10

    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    That maglite mod looks amazing and potentially just what i'm after - thanks!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    If you liked your P17, then you might be interested in the Coast HP17. It's almost identical to the P17, however, it has a lot more lumens (550 if I remember correctly).

    Just a thought.
    Flashlight Selection Process: Pick any two, and only two of the following: Bright, Cheap, Long-Runtime.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* M@elstrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser P17 Upgrade

    Awesome... thanks bedazzLED I wasn't aware of that light, unfortunately I don't seem to be able to locate any beamshots of said light to get a "feel" for it's throw
    My modest collection HERE & 55w HID spotlight project HERE

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