Lifepo4 batteries safety

Hey everyone,
I want to buy for me two Tenergy LifePo4 RCR123A batteries to use with my new Surefire G2X fire rescue.
I want to buy those batteries because I read it's the safest option to use with Surefire flashlights,and it's the option the least affect the flashlight output (only the runtimes is shortened...)
I haven't any experience with rechargeable batteries (in the next month I will get my first Li-on batteries),and I want the batteries to be safe.
So,has the Tenergy Lifepo4 RCR123A battery over-charge and over-discharge protection circuit? (cut-off)
has the Tenergy Lifepo4 RCR123A charger over-charge cut-off?
is there anything I must know before I start using Lifepo4 RCR123A batteries? (safety rules etc.)
thanks advance and have a nice day...

No need for a protection circuit.
Completely safe.

I'd buy the LiFePO4 from K2/Surefire for the quality, otherwise your first experience may not be a good one.

The only negative about LiFePO4 that I've seen is runtime and output on paper. Interested to experience the real usage.

snakyjake said:

No need for a protection circuit.
Completely safe.

I'd buy the LiFePO4 from K2/Surefire for the quality, otherwise your first experience may not be a good one.

The only negative about LiFePO4 that I've seen is runtime and output on paper. Interested to experience the real usage.

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why should be my first experience not that good? please explain.
I saw in some websites that LIFEPO4 batteries shouldn't affact the output (lumens) of the G2X,they should affact only the runitme... are you sure that LIFEPO4 batteries affact the output?
surefire wrote in it's website,that K2 LIFEPO4 batteries in surefire flashlights shouldn't affact the output,only the runtime...
thanks advance and have a nice day =)

I also use LifeP04 cr123's. I'm using AW's and Ultracell's.

One thing you have to remember is that a primary cell is usually about 3-3.15v(from what i have seen when measuring). LifeP04's can come off the charger between 3.4v and 3.6v. They usually settle to about 3.3v after a rest.

The voltage of 2 x LifeP04's can be too high for some flashlights that are rated upto 6volts.
Surefire's warranty will cover the use of Surefire's K2 energy LifeP04's or primaries, but i doubt they will cover any other rechargeable's.

The quality of some LifeP04 chargers can be bad too. I have heard of people having problems with the Surefire charger quality, and i had a faulty Ultrafire charger.
I'm currently using an Xtar MP2 charger that has a 3v setting for LifeP04's. The quality of the Xtar charger seems very good.

snakyjake said:

No need for a protection circuit.
Completely safe.

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Hi Jake. We've been over this before. While it's true that the actual likelihood of a dangerous "event" occurring when using LiFePO4 cells in a light is very slim, it may still be possible. As compared to especially LiCo cells, it's just much less likely, to happen.

Justin Case briefly explained the issue concerning the safety of the more common Li-Ion cell chemistries in this post. While the LiFePO4 chemistry is considered "safe", I don't think it's really correct to say that this chemistry is "completely safe". I'm afraid that we will see folks over discharging, or reverse charging two or more cells in series repeatedly, since these cells are said to be "completely safe" and as a result, may see problems down the road. While I admit that even in this scenario, a dangerous event is unlikely, it still may be possible. Of all the types of cells we use in our lights, Li-Ions are the only ones that have the potential to actually be dangerous if improperly used, and LiFePO4 cells, while admittedly the safest of the common Li-Ion cells we use in our lights, are no exception. The potential is there.

As for whether or not LiFePO4 cells need a protection circuit to prevent damage from occurring to the cell due to over charging, over discharging, or over current, they really are no different than any other Li-Ion chemistry cell. Any of these conditions will cause damage to the cell and reduce cell longevity. Battery Guy addressed this issue in this post. In fact that whole thread (only 7 posts) is an informative read, particularly the comments related to marketing hype.

BG performs cell analyses on various types of cells for a living. I suspect, but don't actually know, that he is associated with the EV industry, in some way. Anyway, batteries and cells are not just a hobby, for him.

Dave

http://www.axeon.com/Technology/Cells/Lithium-(secondary-rechargeable).aspx

Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible in the event of mishandling during charge or discharge, they are more stable under overcharge or short circuit conditions and they can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. When abuse does occur, the phosphate-based cathode material will not release oxygen, will not combust and is therefore much less susceptible to thermal runaway.

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The above is tough to interpret (for me):
The cells are incombustible (incapable of being burned).
The cells will not release oxygen (thermal runaway/flame/explosion needs oxygen).
But then says "much less susceptible to thermal runaway", so still possible....even though there's no oxygen and they aren't combustible.

Jake

thospress said:

Presumably, this is reason for the A-Battery warning: NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SUREFIRE FLASHLIGHT. DON'T USE THESE BATTERIES WITH ANY SURE FIRE FLASHLIGHTS.

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Yes, I'd say so