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Thread: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

  1. #1

    Default Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Hi guys,
    There has been a lot of posts and questions about the Nichia High CRI LED's on the forum and lately much has been said about the Nichia 219 High CRI. I think it's great that Nichia has found somewhat of a niche at least in the flashlights with their high CRI LED's and I know I have enjoyed using them and being a proponent for them for quite a while now.

    There is some confusion on what Nichia offers and what a partial listing of one of their par number actually conveys.

    I don't want to get too caught up in their nomenclature and part numbers and I have been guilty of using a truncated part number as an ID myself. I.E. using the identifier of 119 for one of their High CRI LED's when 119 does not tell the whole story. I am going to continue with the use of an abbreviated Nichia part number which I will identify as the 119V.

    Basically the difference between a 119 and a 219 distinction is the solder pad footprint of the LED package. These numbers do not tell you anything about the die being used or what its flux, CCT, or CRI might be. There are additional characters in the complete Nichia part number that designate these various attributes.

    The 119 I have been using and will continue to use is a NCSL 119 H1 and this is not a complete part number but the significant element I need to address in the part number is the "C". The C designates the die being used and in this case it is a 1.0 mm X 1.0 mm square die having a max drive current of 700 mA (I drive these max at ~ 500 mA which I have found to be the sweet spot). There is of more recent another 119 Nichia has made available and its partial part number of import is a NVSL 119 H1. The V designates a die of 1.3 mm X 1.3 mm square and a max drive current of 1500 mA.

    The 219 Nichias being talked about elsewhere on the forum are, to the best of my knowledge, a NVSL 219 H1 LED. These are using the same die as what I will abbreviate and identify as the 119V.

    the advantage to the 219 is its foot print being essentially the same as the Cree XP-G. Had the original 119 that I started with been a 219 (didn't exist back then) I would have enjoyed using the same MCPCB for both the Nichia and the XP-G. But as it was, I had to have a custom MCPCB made for the 119 and I have been using this MCPCB ever since. (off topic, I just posted that the wave of Haiku XP-G lights is now closed because I have run out of MCPCB's for the XP-G LED and don't see another run being justified), Anyway the advantage to the 119 foot print and especially for someone like me is that it is a much friendlier solder pad format to work with. The 219 has three skinny solder pads that need to be reflowed when mounting on the MCPCB. The 119 has two larger pads to flow which is much easier to do manually.

    Since I have plenty MCPCB's on hand for the 119 LEDs I have as an ongoing program, it follows that I would embrace the 119V now which has the ability do be driven harder and provide more flux as a result.

    I purchased some 119V's from Nichia and can now add confusion to my offering by adding them as another option in these lights. While on the subject of part numbers, the complete part number of the Nichia LED I have added to the mix is NVSL119AT-H1 bin sw45B10L. The H1 in the part number refers to the High CRI distinction. The sw45 designates a CCT range from 4500 - 5000K. The B10 designates the flux. At present they have from B8-B10 with the higher number designating a higher flux. The L refers to Vf and presently they have L and M bins with the L being a lower Vf range. These are nice LED's!

    Now for some of you I have not provided enough information on these LED's and their differences and for others you have already clicked out of this post due to TMI and boring at that.

    One thing nice about Nichia is that their binning is pretty tight and variations from one part to another within the same bin is not very significant. Any testing of a single sample though can not be taken as a true example to be assumed representative of the entire population. It is an indicator an nothing more.

    I did take a sample of the 119 I am using along with two samples of these 119V's I now have and built Light Engines that I tested in my integrating sphere. I used two of the 119V's because I built both a 3 volt and 6 volt Light Engine.

    LE: 119 3V - 119V 3V - 119V 6V
    CRI: 93 - 94 - 93
    CCT: 4800 K - 4600 K - 4800 K *
    Lumens low: 5 - 7 - 8
    Lumens med: 25 - 28 - 43
    Lumens high: 107 - 125 - 161
    mA high level: 500 mA - 650 mA - 1000 mA

    * The 6V 119V LE saw a range of CCT from 4500 K on low to 4900 K on high. I believe it safe to assume that the CCT will increase for all of these LED's to some extent as the current increases.

    I did not attempt to measure lux differences and in theory the smaller die of the 119 might have an advantage over the 119V if it has a higher surface brightness.

    So anyway, the XP-G LED is currently off the roster now but I have added the 119V to the mix. What I have yet to do is get into the various threads and introduce the 119V as an added option. The physical size is the same as the 119 and its use in the various light heads will be for the most part the same as the 119 has been with the significant differences being in lumen output and associated run time. I plan to use the 119V in the 3 Volt 3S light engines driving it on high at the 650 mA level so it will give you more light with less run time on high compared to the original 119 Light Engine. The original 119 is still an option at the 500 mA. Where the greatest difference is I believe is in the 6V Light Engine and at a drive current of 1000 mA. With the 119V I have been able to effectively and still conservatively raise the ceiling on high CRI good quality lumens in my light offerings. And in partial defense of my retiring the XP-G, the 119V driven at the same level as the XP-G falls short in lumens but the gap is narrowing and becoming less significant. If flux is key then I think the XM-L does a very nice job of filling the bill.

    For those of you who don't want to get confused with all of this, please stay tuned and I will try to get threads and my offering information caught up and hopefully somewhat comprehensible.
    Last edited by McGizmo; 07-10-2012 at 12:59 PM. Reason: tried to clear up table ofmeasurements (spaces and tabs are deleted when posted)
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    As an early owner of a 119V 6V Makai from Don, I can say that these new LEDs are spectacular. I have been very pleased with the output.

    Thanks Don!

    eala

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    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Shoot, I read Gman's thread title and had my hopes up for a high CRI version of the SSC Acriche

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    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    A 6V Haiku with a 119V driven at 1000mA could be the Next Big Thing. I don't think anyone else out there is offering anything comparable.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    McGizmo, your posts are rarely boring.

    Thanks for this post. Your fascination with high-CRI LEDs mirrors my own.

    It's been a slow process, but high-CRI LEDs seem to be becoming more and more popular.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I still get inquires of whether I plan to do anything with the "new" Nichia 219 and/or how it compares with the 119. There is an obvious down side in abbreviating a manufacturer's part number when every character in the part number is significant (potentially).
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default

    My mule 119v is another day away.
    Extremely excited to see what it can do.

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    My mule 119v is another day away.
    Extremely excited to see what it can do.
    You should be excited. To me, this is the best LED out there. I am a high CRI and tint junkie and this one has it all, plus it can be driven harder than the previous 119's Don sold.

    Let us know your thoughts. Currently this is my favourite LED and I am picky.

    eala

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    eala. Having played with it for a few hours, I fully agree with your assessment on the 119V to 101%. This has now replaced the Nichia 219 in my books.
    I am not that picky with tints but this is really wow.
    I guess many people will never miss what they never had / seen.

    You should also try Don's Red Dragon on a Sundrop proper. It blew me away with the smoothness of the beam. I wonder why I kept that Surefire L1 in red for so long. Torturing myself......
    Last edited by BenChiew; 09-19-2012 at 09:48 AM.

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    A 6V Haiku with a 119V driven at 1000mA could be the Next Big Thing. I don't think anyone else out there is offering anything comparable.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Don.
    Is this 119V suitable on a Haiku?


    Eala, How about a more elaborate comment about the 119V 6V Makai? Beam profile maybe?
    Last edited by BenChiew; 09-19-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    Don.
    Is this 119V suitable on a Haiku?
    ...
    The 119V is suitable in all of the heads I am working with. I don't think it has any real obvious advantage over the 119 except in the 6V lights where one desires a higher flux than available from the 119 and is willing to pay for it in reduced runtime and some more heat generated.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    Don.
    Is this 119V suitable on a Haiku?


    Eala, How about a more elaborate comment about the 119V 6V Makai? Beam profile maybe?
    Beam profile was awesome on the Makai - it was perfect with great throw from the small die and big head. Can't take a photo, however. I wanted to use the LE in the Haiku, so I resoldered the leads further out on their pads. Now it works with the Haiku for me.

    eala

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    The 119V is suitable in all of the heads I am working with. I don't think it has any real obvious advantage over the 119 except in the 6V lights where one desires a higher flux than available from the 119 and is willing to pay for it in reduced runtime and some more heat generated.
    It does certainly generate more heat, but the increase in lumens is warranted IMO. I think the tint on my 119V sample was cooler than the other 119 and that could partially explain my preference for it. I also like the increased output too.

    Either way, it is a great addition to the line up and works well in the Haiku and Makai.

    eala

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default

    I got the 119V in a Mule. Surely puts out a lot more light than a Nichia 83b.

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    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Yep, definitely need to upgrade my photography light. Benchiew, did you get a 1-cell or a 2-cell driver?

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default

    Both are single cell drivers. Mule 119v and Sundrop XRU 083B.
    To the naked eye, the 083B at medium looks about the same as 119v on low.
    However my mce sundrop 3v is much brighter than the 119v.

    Perhaps Don is driving them differently.

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    Flashaholic* Obijuan Kenobe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    Both are single cell drivers. Mule 119v and Sundrop XRU 083B.
    To the naked eye, the 083B at medium looks about the same as 119v on low.
    However my mce sundrop 3v is much brighter than the 119v.

    Perhaps Don is driving them differently.
    You can swap all these light engines freely and explore that for yourself. I am sure you will find that the Mule configuration is very unfriendly to the general notion of 'brightness' regardless of LED, while extremely high on 'useful light'. The funny thing is that you might find the MC-E better in the mule, and the 119V better in the Sundrop. The spherical lens of the XRU would be ideal with a point light source I guess, and the 119V may be closer to that than the MC-E.

    Do I need to get one of these LE's??

    obi
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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I might just try what you suggested.
    The mule will probably be the least obvious when it comes to the intensity but the 119V in the Mule is brighter than the 083B in the Sundrop XRU.

    Presently, I found a niche in the way I use those lights.
    The Sundrop XRU 083B is perfect for the dark bedroom in the low setting. It has the right amount of light without disturbing but yet enough to see my way around. I got a Goriilapod above my bedpost with the Sundrop attached to it. So it is only an arms length away.

    The 119V and MCE is perfect when some ambient lighting is present.

    The Haiku in XPG and XML would be my city edc lights.
    Last edited by BenChiew; 09-24-2012 at 11:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Don, do you still have access to operational 119 and 119v lights for comparison? Any other members here fortunate enough to own both the CR123 (3V) Haiku HI-CRI in 119 and 119V?
    I somewhat understand the technical differences but am curious to what some "subjective" observations are.
    Are the tints similar? Brightness difference noticeable?
    Pics won't hurt to if there is time or interest : )

    I want to preface this that I have a Haiku Hi-Cri in 119v and love it. I was very doubtful at first that I would be interested in a light with such "low" output, but almost unconsciously I found myself picking up the 119 for casual EDC and in instances I did not need a very powerful light for work. Perhaps it is subliminal messaging, who knows, I still get a kick out of why I can't explain why I like the light.

    I prefer a warmish tint of light (not warm in the 3000K sense) and find the 119 from Don pleasing. I have owned two and they seem to have that warmer shade of neutral in my eyes which is great for me and I use it as a standard for comparisons in my collection.
    If I have to do a blind buy so be it : ) I did that with the 119 and am pleased with the results, enough that I sold my XML Haiku. Now I am dying at a chance to own or at least experience a "warm" XP-G Haiku that I just read about.

    Any and all advice/info appreciated.
    To cut to the chase, if its exactly the same, only noticeably brighter, then I'll lose self control. : )
    Last edited by Sniperboy; 10-30-2012 at 08:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    There are tint differences when compared side to side as I recall with one being more rose and the other more yellow but I don't remember which is which. Flux differences are unnoticeable to the naked eye. I don't have one of each on hand to make a quick comparison and don't like to state my subjective impressions as a means of establishing any difference anyway.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Enlightened Sniperboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Thanks for the reply Don, I appreciate you taking the time. I think your recollection is coincident with another thread -
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=1#post4010749

    Still would love to see it in person, perhaps one day I'll run into one.

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I concur with Don. I don't have both at the moment but did for a few months. The 119V is more rose and the 119 is more yellow. Honestly, they are both excellent. I tilt my hat to the 119V. My favourite LED by a long shot.

    eala

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Hi all,
    I understand the "original" 119 and the "new offering" 119V will both use the same reflector in the Haiku. Since the die is larger, the beam should be slighly (?) modified as well.

    Would anyone owning both version mind commenting on the beam of the 119V compared to the 119 in a Haiku head ?

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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I did not notice an appreciable difference. Don't own both right now, however.

    eala

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    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    The 119V appears whiter than the 119. A little but noticeable.

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    Flashaholic* S1LVA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    Well done, Don!

    I recieved my 6v Haiku 119V today. Right away I compared the brightness with two 219 Malkoffs to share with my fellow CPF'ers. The Haiku is brighter than the M61L 219 and not quite as bright, but definitely closer to the M61 219. Also, the rings are less noticeable in the Haiku's beam compared to the Malkoffs.

    I am impressed and very happy with my new Haiku.

    Thanks again, Don!

    S1LVA
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  28. #28
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I wonder how a 6v 119V would excel in a large reflector like those found in the Makai? Would it out throw a xpg Haiku?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I just got directed to this thread and need to read it again when I'm more alert. Since it concerns one of the most popular emitters here to date, I think it's worthwhile getting some more traffic here, especially with the excellent OP by the man who originally informed most of us about the positive attributes when applied to flashlights.

    Still love my Nichia 119 Haiku, but am now wondering if it's supposed to be a 119V or just a 119 now.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  30. #30
    Flashaholic diesel79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nichia High CRI LED - 119V

    I ordered a Haiku recently with the 119v emitter. Very neutral/white tint, even slightly more white so than my 119 Mule. At least to my eyes.

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