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Thread: Tritium zip pull..

  1. #31
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Hi Guys, just finalizing some production details! will post back soon with exact details etc..

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Cool, I remain interested.

  3. #33
    Flashaholic* Light11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Great!
    Interested in a couple.Green and Ice blue or red trits.
    I look forward to seeing a proto of the new design.



    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    hi Light11! diameter will be 3.25mm - big enough for 2x1.5mm cord and still tight enough for it not to float around

  4. #34
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Just a kindly advise Mister...these look nearly exactly like my Beadbombs!
    I mean the one you show in Post #22.

    This design is patented here in germany per law! I really hope you dont sell these!
    Otherwise it could be ilegal, this is not really a different design
    in my eyes...why no own design?

    To state this clear, you dont have any permission
    to copy my design! Thanks

  5. #35
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    and a picture of the tritium bead bomb:



    cheers,
    stjohn
    You dont want to say, these are your own thuoghts?
    Are you kidding me?


    I really cant understand that...its so obviously that even
    other members post here and i get several PM's
    That is nothing what this community needs!

  6. #36
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Help Re: Tritium zip pull..


  7. #37
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Hi Toby,
    thanks for showing me your design! Your zip pull has only two slots for tritiums that I can see, mine has three. Mine also has some other design features yours does not have apart from being a completely different size and shape (from what I can see). So yes they are both zip pulls and yes of course mine is my own design which I am perfectly entitled to make and sell. Please send me details of your patent, stjohn@technicalentry.com and I will check it out. Of course if you have a patent and I infringe upon that then you are quite correct that may be against the law which I would certainly not want to contravene. Competition and the availability of different products is not copying. My own personal opinion is that competition is good for product designers and communities. Simply look at the range and number of torches available, they all have a light and battery but they are all different! If we only had one torch or zip pull life would not be much fun!

    best regards,
    stjohn

    p.m. sent..
    Last edited by stjohn; 07-21-2012 at 05:09 PM.

  8. #38
    gunga's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks similar, but 2 vs 3 slots etc.

  9. #39
    Flashaholic* shado's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    They look very similar to Toby's These are called "the tritium bead bomb" and Toby's "Beadbomb (AKA the Tritiumbead)"
    My Lights__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

  10. #40
    Flashaholic* Light11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Stjohn,

    After seeing the new CAD I'm not longer interested if these are going to be like Toby's Bead-bombs.

  11. #41
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Light11,
    sure no problem.You are under no obligation! My design is quite different to his. I design stuff because I enjoy it, you buy it if you enjoy it

    cheers, stjohn

  12. #42
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    You really want to discuss design features...???

    As you can see, other members have the same
    opinion, you have copied many of my features
    so that it looks nearly same as mine...

    I wont accept this and investigate, as i stated
    in my PM. This has nothing in common with competition
    when you are not able to create a complete own
    design! This is shame!

    I hope a mod will check this thread soon, also its
    against the rules to take orders here.

  13. #43
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..



    Also in your youtube animation you call it "tritium bead-bomb"
    Are you kidding me?

  14. #44
    Flashaholic* Eric242's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    I find it very hard to believe you´d design THAT without ever seeing Toby´s Beadbomb AND calling it the bead bomb. I´m sorry, but that kind of coincidence doesn´t exist in my book. To me it looks like you took Toby´s design, changed a few things here and there without being able to come up with your own name for that. Even if you don´t infringe on any patents it´s just POOR.

    Eric
    Last edited by Eric242; 07-22-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* blitzlicht65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Isn't copying normal today?

    (If it is copying!!??)
    Dirk

  16. #46

    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Firstly, I don't claim to be any legal or IPR expert so I can offer any tangible advice and it's all from my personal observations...

    In today's highly competitive world, taking design inspiration and/or being a downright copycat exist in almost anything imaginable. That's why the most important steps any inventor/designer/entrepreneur must take is a visit to his IPR lawyer then straight off to the trademark office. Almost anything we use today is a design ripoff from someone else's idea or design. The car you drive, the phone you use or even the computer that you are reading this on...it's basically someone else's design with improvements/tweaks on it. So it exist in every facet of our daily lives and we sort of accepted it (besides the lawyers of course) as norm.

    I'm sure there are many similarities in both designs and perhaps stjohn did looked at Toby's design and decided to add a twist to it? Bottomline is without proper brand name trademark and design copyrights, Toby can claim a moral high ground of coming out with the "original" beadbomb and nothing more. If he did indeed copyrighted it, then he will be accorded the due protection of the law. It sucks I know but what can you do? I'm sure somewhere down the line, someone else will copy my business approach, the way I presented my products packaging, the copywriting that I use for my marketing materials and no doubt I will mighty pissed off but that's THAT!!!

    I have long concluded that the one with better marketing, higher quality products, most competitive pricing, rock solid after-sales support and be the most efficient in satisfying customers needs will gain from his work, whether he is the first to the market or not!

    Just my two cents...
    WTB --> any vintage, cross-hair logo Surefire, SW01 tailcap; Ku's SWM V-series 18500 tubes; PM me if you have a SPY007 XM-L2 SWGG for trade!


  17. #47
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Aside any patents its against the law to copy thuoghts, thats law
    within the EU, a patent is better needed, when you need to
    investigate. Its easier that way...

    When i look back and think about the work and time
    we invested to create this design its a shame, to tell
    there is an an own design. BTW, the sidepipes are
    the most important design feature.

  18. #48
    *Flashaholic* nbp's Avatar
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    Default

    Legal or not, it's not good for this community IMO, to have a battle going on over designs like this.

    Personally, I'd like to see the OP come up with some unique designs and present them. It seems he has the skills, and people are definitely interested in the product. Why not just work on an entirely new bead? It seems the best option overall.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Toby, when will your tritium beadbombs be made available again? I missed out to the previous run and I would like to purchase one for my own enjoyment, and also to compare with other products that I will buy in the future
    WTB --> any vintage, cross-hair logo Surefire, SW01 tailcap; Ku's SWM V-series 18500 tubes; PM me if you have a SPY007 XM-L2 SWGG for trade!


  20. #50
    Flashaholic borealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Why in the world would you want a metallic zip pull if you're an ice climber? You wouldn't be able to touch it with your bare hands and there's a risk of it sticking to your face.
    -- || --

  21. #51
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    After this stress here i will show a new unique design
    next month

    Beadbomb Vol.2

  22. #52

    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    EDIT, I did not see the second page of this thread before I posted... I now see toby has already been here and I said what everyone else did. Im an idiot, sorry...







    Yea, Not trying to be a dick but yours is called tritium bead bomb, Toby's are called titanium bead bombs and yours look identical too his without the vertical lines milled. I would change it up some...

    Yours



    Toby's

    Last edited by mikesantor; 07-23-2012 at 08:46 PM.

  23. #53
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Borealis - thanks for your comments. I climb quite a lot of ice, when doing it you where big gloves, that's the point - it makes it possible to handle your zip.

    cheers, st.john

  24. #54
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Guys,
    I worked on my own design and developed it myself. I did not copy Toby's design. My 'bead bomb' is quite a bit different to Toby's. It is a progression from a number of models. When finished I will post it up and you can decide for yourselves...

    cheers,
    stjohn

  25. #55
    Flashaholic borealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    Guys,
    I worked on my own design and developed it myself. I did not copy Toby's design. My 'bead bomb' is quite a bit different to Toby's. It is a progression from a number of models. When finished I will post it up and you can decide for yourselves...

    cheers,
    stjohn
    Even if you reinvented the light bulb all on your own and called it a bulb light, it still looks like you copied an existing design. The fact that you came up with it is irrelevant if somebody else came up with it before you.

    Unless you can work something out with Toby, I think additional changes and renaming are in order.
    Last edited by borealis; 07-24-2012 at 12:44 PM.
    -- || --

  26. #56
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Borealis: Well I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on all of those counts! If people think I simply copied another product why would they be interested in my design if it that's all it was? As I said at the beginning of this thread I would make further details available when I had them which so far I have not done. I have acted perfectly honorably and simply asked the guys here what they thought of my design. I am sorry some people don't like that.

    best regards,
    stjohn

  27. #57
    Flashaholic borealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    Borealis: Well I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on all of those counts! If people think I simply copied another product why would they be interested in my design if it that's all it was? As I said at the beginning of this thread I would make further details available when I had them which so far I have not done. I have acted perfectly honorably and simply asked the guys here what they thought of my design. I am sorry some people don't like that.
    People would be interested because the other bead is not available for purchase at this time, and people probably didn't even know it existed. Now that everyone knows, you'll see interest in your product drop simply out of respect for another forum member and his product. I'm not a legal expert and am against many forms of IP protections in general. You can disagree all you want, but you don't sound like a legal expert either. Potential legal issues aside, it's just uncool and perhaps unethical of you to offer an extremely similar product with an extremely similar name. I'm looking forward to your further details when and if they become available, and I can only hope that you address these concerns.
    Last edited by borealis; 07-24-2012 at 05:13 PM.
    -- || --

  28. #58
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Hi Borealis,
    many thanks for your reply. I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and comments even if mine differ. My thoughts disagree based on intellectual property law, not my personal opinion. My 'zip pull' is my own design, I put up the design for comment and feedback, not marketing and sale. I am not qualified to give feedback about i.p (intellectual property law) so I don't give it...

    Many thanks for your feedback!

    cheers, stjohn

  29. #59
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    As i already wrote you in my Email, its still NOT legal to copy
    designs, even without a patent. Thats the law in EU...

    Borealis, many thanks for your words. I think the same
    and told that the OP in my Emails. I dont and cant believe
    that the same designs are only concidencly the same.
    At that point i would change my design...

    I really hope you change your design from mine.
    That gives you a better start here and avoids me
    to start legal action here in Germany.

    Btw, if i saw it correctly at youtube, you already
    offer this design for sale with a pricing! Again you
    do not have any permission from my side!

  30. #60
    Enlightened stjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tritium zip pull..

    Hi Toby,
    I asked you privately to provide me with details of your intellectual property infringement allegations and you did not. Making false allegations like you have done in this thread i.e. 'I have a patent' when you don't is actually against the law. If you really want to take that line of action I respectfully suggest you do seek legal advice. I won't comment any further here. I hope your feelings will change in this regard. It is my wish simply to add something to this great community and again I state clearly I did not copy your design.

    best regards,
    stjohn

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