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Thread: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

  1. #1

    Default BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Hello,

    I am looking to buy my first headlamp for the purpose of hiking in darkness. My original Googling lead me to three main manufacturers: BlackDiamond, Petzl and Princeton. After a couple of hours comparing the specification on rei.com, I thought it would be a toss up between the BlackDiamond Spot and the Princeton Tec Remix. Yet upon further Googling, people have expressed concerns regarding their build quality, so I thought I'd bite the extra 0.8oz and go with the BD Storm. Well, I also looked at the Petzl Tikka XP 2, but on paper at least, the BD has it beat on all but Red light brightness and weight (attributed to the additional battery so doesn't really count).

    Then somehow I stumbled upon this forum, and found out about ZebraLight. Oddly enough, the brand not mentioned in as many places as the other three, yet it many here who have used a wide variety of headlight over here are favouring the HF51 series. But I still do not really understand what it is about the HF51 that makes it better than the Storm (please understand that I have never used a headlamp).

    I assume (correct me if wrong) that all thing being equal, 4xAAA batteries will last longer than 1xAA batteries. Meaning that I'd need to change batteries more often on the HF51. Does the AA batteries have an advantage to offset that?

    There is no red light on the ZebraLight. I don't think it has a strobe setting either. I am not sure how important those are.

    The Storm is also said to be quite water resistant, has a lock to prevent it from switching on in the bag. Do the HF-51 offer those features too?

    To sum up, just want makes the HF-51 so loved around here?

    -------------------------------------

    IF I am convinced to go for the HF-51, I have three models to choose from. Which one is recommended for what:

    - ZEBRALIGHT H51Fc Headlamp (Philips LUXEON Rebel / Typical CRI: 85, Norminal CCT: 4200K)
    - ZEBRALIGHT H51 Headlamp AA 200Lm / Cree XP-G Cool White
    - ZEBRALIGHT H51w AA / Cree XP-G Neutral White

    I am leaning towards the last one, but I wonder if it's a good idea. As I understand, it's not as bright as the Cool White. Oh yeah, night hiking aside, perhaps it's worth considering which one you'd go for in an emergency (I do leave in an earthquake prone country, and I am suppose to have a source of light in my emergency pack).
    Last edited by TooNice; 07-22-2012 at 04:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    I have the Storm, it is a great headlamp. Long run times. I like the light because I can switch from flood LED's to the Spot LED without going through the Red LED's. Both spot and flood LED's are fully adjustable for brightness. I can't tell you how many hours I used the low flood setting to read in bed. A long press of the on/off button puts the light into red led mode. The light stays in this mode until you change it back. Red LEDs are ok for night reading, etc. but I don't use them
    much. The three color battery meter seems accurate, and I like that you can "lock" the light off when not in use. Battery compartment is made to keep the batteries dry in the rain. I have used the light in the rain- but not a torrential downpour. Hope this helps.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Each headlamp has its strengths and weaknesses and the choice really depends on your preference. I do not have a recommendation for one over the other, but I wanted to bring up a point which might factor into your decision.

    The Zebralight H51 series has a hidden cost in the form of Eneloop batteries and a charger. Alkaline batteries do not perform well in 1xAA flashlights and the H51 is essentially a 1xAA flashlight. Alkaline batteries were not designed to provide the amount of power needed at the rate required by high current devices and can leak and cause damage to both you and your light if they are pushed too hard or drained too low. Eneloop batteries can provide the power a H51 needs and will not leak and will last a long, long time. Eneloops are superior in almost every way and almost essential if you buy a H51, but the added up front cost is something that needs to be factored in.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    There is one more H51 option that you didn't mention and that is the cool white H51f.

    I have both the Storm and the H51f (as well as the H51). I prefer the H51f.

    You probably will want to use Eneloops as mentioned above but they aren't that expensive and they pay for themselves since they are rechargeable.

    Another point to mention regarding batteries is that the Storm which uses 4 AAA's vs the H51 with 1AA means that the batteries in the Storm are roughly twice as expensive. A 4 pack of AAA's and AA's generally cost about the same but the AAA's have half the power of the AA's so in effect cost twice as much.

    The Storm is a nice headlamp but is bulkier than the H51f and isn't as easy to change the batteries. You'll change the batteries a little more often in the H51f but you can do it easily with your eyes closed.

    The h51f does have a strobe mode if you need it. One of the drawbacks of the Storm to me is the fact that every time you turn it on it comes on in the other mode. So it toggles back and forth between spot and flood regardless of which mode you would rather have it be in. It also always starts in high.

    The H51f is much more form fitting and weighs less but the bigger feature IMO is the form factor rather than the weight. The user interface IMO is one of the best features of the H51f.

    Both are good headlamps however and it's up to your personal preferences as to which one is best for you.
    Last edited by gcbryan; 07-23-2012 at 12:16 AM.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    Hello,

    I assume (correct me if wrong) that all thing being equal, 4xAAA batteries will last longer than 1xAA batteries. Meaning that I'd need to change batteries more often on the HF51. Does the AA batteries have an advantage to offset that?
    Runtimes are given on the Zebralight website. (Not permitted to post the link here - Google) I have the SC51w and my own informal tests have found Zebra's runtimes to be only slightly overstated. Zebra's are known for the efficiency of their drivers as they are optimised for 1 AA cell.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    There is no red light on the ZebraLight. I don't think it has a strobe setting either. I am not sure how important those are.
    Again, check the website, the H51 does have a strobe. However, it involves about 6 double-clicks to reprogram the H2 mode as a strobe instead of a lower level beam. I don't know about red lights to preserve night vision, there seems to be as many people here praising it as there are claiming it makes no difference.
    What I can say, is that the Zebra has a good range of lower output levels that will likely work to preserve night vision for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    The Storm is also said to be quite water resistant, has a lock to prevent it from switching on in the bag. Do the HF-51 offer those features too?
    The Zebra is IPX8 waterproof (2m, 30 minutes). Threads are anodised so the light can be locked out by slightly unscrewing the tailcap. (The soft-switch on the Zebra has been rightly criticised for being a little too easy to accidentally activate - "hot pocket syndrome" )




    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    I am leaning towards the last one, but I wonder if it's a good idea. As I understand, it's not as bright as the Cool White. Oh yeah, night hiking aside, perhaps it's worth considering which one you'd go for in an emergency (I do leave in an earthquake prone country, and I am suppose to have a source of light in my emergency pack).
    The warm version is slightly less lumens than the cool white, but whether this would be very noticable in real life I'm not sure. I have found the colour rendition of the warm is definitely much better than that of my other "cool" lights though it seems subjectively less bright.
    As for earthquake preparedness, the CPF motto is never get just one light!

    I don't mean to seem like a rep for Zebralight, but I have to say I have been very impressed with my SC51w and it is a definite EDC for me. Feed it Eneloops if you want full output and long storage life. (And don't forget to lockout the tailcap if putting it away in an emergency bag)
    Last edited by Trevtrain; 07-23-2012 at 12:57 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Thanks for the replies. I only use Eneloop (AA&AAA) and similar nowadays, so that is not an issue. I should note that the three H51 models I listed earlier are the only ones I have access to without resorting to importing (worried bout time).

    What I am concerned about the H51-series is that it seems that I have to choose between either a model that does spill and spot, or a model that is floody.

    In contrast, according to rei, the Storm does flood and spot. I could be wrong, but this combo *sound* more versatile: either I want to focus my attention on something, or I want to light up the immediate environment.

  7. #7

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    I have a half dozen Black Diamond and Petzl headlamps and lanterns and don't really like them. They've gone basically unused since getting my Zebralight and Quark flashlight w/Nitecore topstrap headband. Here's the issues I have with them:

    - AA have about 2.5x the energy of AAAs. The only reason to go with multiple AAAs is for the increase voltage to power a higher max lumen but these 6v headlamps still can't match the max of 1.5v ZL or Quark
    - Plastic housing vs metal/glass - I've cracked a plastic casing or two, not to mention better water resistance with tubes and o-rings vs formed pressed gaskets.
    - Non-regulated light - just gets steadily dimmer from on.
    - Runtime - No buck drivers so 4 lumen lows, which I find unnecessarily bright for inside a tent or reading a book... ZLs and Quarks will get 300+ hrs per AA on sub-lumen moonlight levels and ZL has a couple other single digit lumen modes which I find plenty for any close task work... why not use the lowest mode possible to save batteries, preserve night vision and be less annoying to others?
    - IMHO red filters to preserve night vision is like 2 wrongs trying to make a right. Bath everything in a weird red tint and burn batteries just to offset the fact that the light doesn't have a good low low mode?
    - Highs not high enough.
    - Always start out on high ruining night vision and forcing you cycle down to a more efficient level.

    If you're camping and can benefit from the much more efficient low lows of a good flashlight, then ZL and the Quark will absolutely dust the plastic headlamps. However, if you're planning in hiking and using the higher lumen modes a lot, I still think the ZL and Quark will be significantly more efficient, but the gap narrows in terms of runtime, and a 4xAA might that mean less battery swapping (but I'd definitely prefer to swap 1xAA over 4xAAA).

    Just my $0.02.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    The Storm is regulated by the way (only for the first 25% of battery capacity though).

  9. #9

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    As I understand, the HF51 is regulated too, so that aspect is a bit of a toss: do I want the light to dim gradually - and have plenty of time to prepare to change battery vs having full performance the whole way. I do not feel too strongly one way or another on this one. For me the harder question remains Spot+Spill vs Flood vs Spot+Flood. How does the Storm's flood compare to the H51's spill?

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    In contrast, according to rei, the Storm does flood and spot. I could be wrong, but this combo *sound* more versatile: either I want to focus my attention on something, or I want to light up the immediate environment.
    Check the Storm in person to see how it performs for both spot and flood. MANY of the consumer-grade headlamps that claim "flood and spot" (such as the Energizers) give you a narrow spot, and a slightly wider narrow spot, which they erroneously call a "flood." Maybe the Storm truly does a nice flood, I don't remember. For my usage, if it doesn't throw at least 60 degrees of light, it's not floody enough.

    Regards your question about energy from 1xAA vs 4xAAA cells, you'd have approximately (in Eneloops) 2000 mAh vs. 3200 mAh...however the efficiency of the light itself makes a big difference, and the ZLs are known to be extremely efficient (downright miserly!) in using their mAh. I don't know how efficient the Storm is. If it's too big an imposition changing out an AA every couple of hours, take a look at some of the 2AA lights, which give you an easy 4000 mAh, such as the Spark SD52.

    Here's a hypothetical question: would it be faster/cheaper to change out a 1AA every 2 hours or a 4AAA every 3.2 hours?

    When I tried out a Storm at REI, it felt quality. I thought it was pretty chunky (in size) but that may not be an issue for you.

    I agree, regulation's a toss-up. Advantages both ways. Most of the time I prefer regulation and once in awhile I'd prefer the light dimmed as it extinguished.

    I think most of us would prefer a light that stayed in regulation until the last 1/10th of battery life, but nobody makes such a beast that I know of.

    You're asking good questions, so you'll find a good light. If you get the Storm please give us a flood beam measurement...I've never been able to nail this down.

    Reppans makes a good argument about 4 lumen not being low enough. I agree. The sublumen settings are very useful.
    Last edited by Bolster; 07-23-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    If I remember correctly, the non-floody version of the H51 claims 80 degrees on spill settings (vs 90 degrees on the floody version). Does that sound about right?

    One of the issue is that I am going to climb next week-end so I only have a couple more days before I need to make a decision. It seems that most of those headlamps aren't sold in high street stores so I can't test them out (most are local brands).

    To be honest, the hike (Mt Fuji) should be lit if only because it's going to be crowded and apparently everyone has a headlamp. I was going to settle for a $15 cheapie, but I make the habit of researching *everything* I buy and end up where I am *laugh*

    Then again, in a couple of month I may go for a much longer hike which may involve some camping along the way, so I will need a source of light during for that too.

    At the moment, I can't justify buying two lamps (unless it's two cheap ones), hence the emphasis on versatility (I understand that I can not have everything).
    Last edited by TooNice; 07-23-2012 at 08:16 PM.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    One issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is customer service. Since the Storm is available at REI and REI customer service is excellent, the Storm has the edge in customer service. If anything goes wrong with the Storm, you can take it to a REI store and they will probably replace it for you on the spot. Zebralight customer service isn't as good. If anything goes wrong with the H51 after the initial 30 days, first you have to absorb the cost of mailing it back and second, the wait for repair or replacement can be a while. In addition, while REI's warranty lasts for the normal life of the item, Zebralight's warranty is for 1 year.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    The two lights aren't similar enough in my opinion to make a decision based on warranty. The Storm does have a fantastic flood but it's only 15 lumens (or something like that...maybe as much as 30?).

    It's a secondary mode really. The "spot" isn't really that much of a spot. It's floody as well. I put a piece of tape over the front lens to diffuse the spot a bit more. It didn't change the angle that much but just cleaned up the output a bit.

    Both beams are great actually on the Storm. It's just that if you need a brighter light than the flood can give you you will mainly be hiking with the spot and using the flood around camp.

    With the H51f you will be using the same beam for both tasks. I have the H51 as well and personally without adding tape (which I did) the beam is a bit annoying for hiking. It's like using a typical XP-G flashlight which means sharp cut off of the spill and decent sided spot in the middle. What works well in a flashlight can be annoying when it's on your head and bobbing around. A wider angle is much better in my opinion.

    The thing about the H51f is that you can have it come on in low if you want whereas the Storm will come on in high every time and yet in will be in a different mode every time as well...spot...flood...spot...flood.
    Last edited by gcbryan; 07-23-2012 at 11:18 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rojos View Post
    One issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is customer service. Since the Storm is available at REI and REI customer service is excellent, .... In addition, while REI's warranty lasts for the normal life of the item, Zebralight's warranty is for 1 year.
    I think this is a good point. Although I believe ZL makes somewhat better lights for my specific purposes, I end up buying many more 4Sevens products for the warranty and better customer service (these two manufactures are the only ones that cater to the single AA, low lumen, high efficiency enthusiast). If there's a problem with my ZL, it's basically a throw-away now. I'm quite happy with adapting my Quark for headlamp and lantern duty.

    One other important point I forgot to mention above is that BD and Petzl headlamps are only good for headlamp duty; right angle ZLs do both headlamp and EDC flashlight duty equally well, and EDC flashlights do headlamp duty far better than dedicated headlamps can do EDC flashlight duty.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    I think this is a good point. Although I believe ZL makes somewhat better lights for my specific purposes, I end up buying many more 4Sevens products for the warranty and better customer service (these two manufactures are the only ones that cater to the single AA, low lumen, high efficiency enthusiast). If there's a problem with my ZL, it's basically a throw-away now. I'm quite happy with adapting my Quark for headlamp and lantern duty.
    And on that note...when the heck is 4-7s going to make a headlamp?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
    And on that note...when the heck is 4-7s going to make a headlamp?
    I think they think that they have that base covered with their prism kit (90-degree prism with headband). However, I have one and don't like how it constricts the spill. I just use my QAAX with an $11 Nitecore headband which positions the light on a topstrap on the top of your head. No bouncing, but not as quick/easy to adjust angle.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    I think they think that they have that base covered with their prism kit (90-degree prism with headband).
    I've heard nothing but negative remarks about this accessory. I *so* wanted it to work but ultimately didn't order after reading the overwhelmingly negative reviews here on CPF.

    4-7s needs to construct an actual headlamp. Given the quality and prices of their handheld line, they have a shot at creating a very popular headlamp (if they can comprehend the value of floody beams, as Fenix seems incapable of understanding). They could give ZL and Spark a run for the money. But here we run up against the "second-rung status" of the headlamp vs. the handheld. I suspect 4-7 has calculated there's just not the market to warrant the development.

    Hope they change their minds. I'd love to own a headlamped, flooded version of my High CRI Mini AA.
    Last edited by Bolster; 07-24-2012 at 11:46 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Turned out they *do* sell the Storm in shops over here, just in specialist outdoor sport goods stores as opposed to large electronic stores. Sadly, though they have samples for me to play with, they did not have the dark environment for me to really tell them apart. The price gap between the H51 and Storm is much narrower over here than in the US, so I may just go with it (I do have more spare AA Eneloop at hand too). Now I just need to pick a model. I prefer the idea of the natural light, but it seems that gcbryan at least prefer the floody version (which I can't get in natural light). Dilemma, dilemma ^^;

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    You can always just buy the H51w and put tape over the lens. I think there is a H51fc. Is there no H51fw?
    Last edited by gcbryan; 07-25-2012 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    They do have a H51FW. There, problem solveed :P.

    I bought my SC51c from them last Sunday and got it on Thursday last week, but it did ship from their Texas warehouse and I am in the US, so I'm not sure how long you'll have to wait for yours.

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Before you pull the trigger, you may wish to take a look at the Spark headlamp series. They solve the flood vs spot issue by including a well-designed diffuser with most of their headlamps. Output levels and efficiency are both very good, as is the headband design.

    Good hunting!
    When in doubt, buy both!

  22. #22

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckley View Post
    ...you may wish to take a look at the Spark headlamp series...
    I may be wrong, but during my headlamp research it showed up an issue concerning the use of NiMH cells on Spark headlamps. Apparently, Spark headlamps may behave oddly when NiMH batteries are partially depleted.

    Hopefully someone with experience in the use of NiMH cells in Spark headlamps will post his or her thoughts about this issue after reading this message.

  23. #23

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    There is no chance that it would arrive on time if I order from Zebralight, especially given that what I am looking at are all on backorder. But the good news for me is that the vendor I've been looking at has just listed the H51FW, so that it is now a viable option. But only just noticed that Zebralight comes in 3 temperature! I thought the choice is either "cool" (i.e. blueish at over 6000K, not my top pick) or "Natural" (i.e. "warmer" colour), which I thought was synonymous to "Neutral". Now that I know they are different, has anyone extensively compared the 'c' with 'w' line?

    The Spark SD52 looks great, but unless I've been looking at the wrong place, I would definitely have to import it from Ebay and the likes. It's also quite a bit more than I'd like to spend.

    @
    gcbryan: How viable is the "taping" method for achieving flood on the non-floody version? Does it actually allow the light to spread wider? It's probably not optimal but how far off would it be? In a way, it sounds more feasible to diffuse the lamp on clear glass than it is to focus the light on a frosted lens (I know that it sounds like I am expecting a lot from one device).
    Last edited by TooNice; 07-25-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Hang on.. what does the H51f series have over the 50x series? On paper, the H502c outdoes the H51c in everything.. Although I am not sure if there is a huge difference in the throw (can't find the data). If there isn't, why even bother making/buying the H51f series?

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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    The price gap between the H51 and Storm is much narrower over here than in the US, so I may just go with it (I do have more spare AA Eneloop at hand too).
    If the price difference is minimal, I think the Zebralight wins and I recommend the H51Fc. It's is smaller and lighter than the Storm, batteries are easier to install, and the UI is better. The warm tint and higher CRI are also more pleasant to the eye and allow the landscape to look more natural.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    Hang on.. what does the H51f series have over the 50x series? On paper, the H502c outdoes the H51c in everything.. Although I am not sure if there is a huge difference in the throw (can't find the data). If there isn't, why even bother making/buying the H51f series?
    The H502 series has very poor throw and is not suitable for hiking IMO. When comparing a H51Fc and H502c, although the H502c has higher output figures initially, the H51Fc will appear much brighter at any distance greater than an arms length.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    How viable is the "taping" method for achieving flood on the non-floody version?
    I recommend just buying the F version instead of taping a regular version. In most camping and hiking scenarios, you need to see about a 5 meter wide by 10 meter deep area in front of you and the more evenly lit the better. Unless you have to consistently spot objects that are more than 20 meters away, the F version will be more useful for you.

    As for taping, it works, but it will feel clumsy after awhile. You'll probably end up using the tape all the time and wishing you had just gotten the F version to begin with.
    Last edited by rojos; 07-25-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    Thanks. Okay, I am now sold regarding the Zebralight and sold about the floody H51 series. What might require a little push perhaps is between the 'c' and 'w' series. I understand that the 'c' series is meant to provide more "accurate colour". I do note that when I do hike at night, I am not exactly "sightseeing", but usually trying to get myself either back to civilisation (perhaps after witnessing the sunset), or a place to camp. So more critical than getting more accurate greens in the foliage, or brown in the rocks, is the ability to clearly see the sometime rocky/uneven trail is the most important aspect.

    What I wonder is whether there is a material (i.e. practical - as opposed to theoretical) difference between the 'c' version and the 'w' in practice in light output. On paper, the 'w' version is much better on High settings including the strobe, and significantly weaker on M2 (strange). Since I am not familiar with light output measurements, I am not sure what is *needed* to be able to safely see the trail. Is it over 100? 60? 30? Under what circumstances will I need to be on H1 or H2? (The battery life on those mode are is too short, so I would hope that I would not need so much power given that I am walking, not running). Is either light more "comfortable" (at nearly the same temperature, I wouldn't expect there to be much difference)?

    Well, I very much suspect that I am splitting hair here, and either would do be fine. Still, for my 6000 yen, I would like the "more useful" one, however minuscule the differences ^^;

  27. #27
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    If you have perfect color vision, then you might prefer the "c" high-CRI version. Otherwise choose the 'w" warm version which can go a bit brighter with nearly the same tint and color rendering. I have nearly perfect color vision, so I chose the h51fc high-CRI, and I have been quite happy with it. In dark situations it is plenty bright. The only time I have wished it was brighter was while working in shady daylight, where an XML headlight would have been preferable since my pupils were shut down.
    "What that thing needs, is more power." - Tim Allen

  28. #28

    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    I might end up flipping a coin on this (I will make a decision in the next 24 hour), as I do not know how good my *colour vision* is. How much power output is required to clearly see the trail at night? I would imagine that 100+ is not necessary, but how low can I go? And when is the H1 setting in either lamp useful?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: BlackDiamond Storm vs Zebralight H51 series

    For me the H1 is just for when I need some help seeing so detail a little more clearly. Most of the time (depending on the trail) 30 would be fine and around camp 7 and on down is good.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcbryan View Post
    For me the H1 is just for when I need some help seeing so detail a little more clearly. Most of the time (depending on the trail) 30 would be fine and around camp 7 and on down is good.
    + 1, maybe even a tad lower. The big exception to this is if you're hiking with people that don't have a good selection of low lumen modes. If they start blasting with powerful lights it'll kill everyone's night vision.

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