31 Offroad lights tested by 4wdAction Australia

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-Virgil-

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Thanks for posting, but I can't help smelling fish when I read this, given LightFarce's marketing tactics -- particularly heavy-handed in Australia.
 

bnemmie

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Nice find. Im always looking for bigger, badder and brighter set of lights for the front of my truck. Thanks for the link.
 

Ned Kelly

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Yes, I agree about taking a magazine article with a grain of salt. I rarely see magazines criticize a product. I wonder what the longevity/quality of some of the lights would be over a long term period of use. Usually everything works when it is new.
 

Alaric Darconville

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I wonder what the longevity/quality of some of the lights would be over a long term period of use. Usually everything works when it is new.

Don't forget that "durability" and "ability" are not always directly linked. LightFarce may *work* in that it lights up, but even brand-new it may not be a good lamp.
 

Ned Kelly

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True. I'll go with proven products to avoid dissappointment, as well as avoid ill spent money. That being said, today I have a Rigid 10" E Series enroute to my door, hopefully it will be here by next week.I am also considering the BajaDesign Squadron 4 LED light at some point in the future.
 

MichaelW

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Are we to assume, or are we supposed to know that the bulbs are all H1s?
They forgot to take temperature numbers from the LED housings {to show heat dissipation ability, especially when the recommend LED bars for the slow going}
Forgoing that, they should have let them thermally saturate for 30-60 minutes.
 

NFT5

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Yes, you can pick lots of faults with a magazine comparison, especially 4WDAction who are notorious for favouring certain brands. Still, it's interesting as a starting point.

Are all the bulbs H1s? Not specified but the LF and Roo Lite both use a Xenophot bulb.
 

gf0012-aust

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Yes, I agree about taking a magazine article with a grain of salt. I rarely see magazines criticize a product. I wonder what the longevity/quality of some of the lights would be over a long term period of use. Usually everything works when it is new.

So, if you know that and know 4wdAction - then you know that Lightforce have zero influence on the magazine, Roothy and co. because their primary sponsors are Roosystems (Bajadesign) and Superior Engineering (Rigid)

No offence, but I see so much rubbish bagging Lightforce in these forums over the last few years that I question the motivation

Lets have a little reality check seeing you're australian. What do you see on the front of the majority of double B's and 34 wheelers that you see driving down the hume, federal and pacific highways (ie 90% of australias trucking trafffic goes down these highways) - the majority are using LF 240's and LF XGT's, after that its Narva Taurus/Bull lights. South/north through central australia and they're usually LF240's - the majority are not salaried drivers - they're spending their own coin - and when their rigs are setting them back $250k-400k then they aren't wasting money on stuff that doesn't work.

I've used LF 240's and 170's for years - and they've been superb lights. I drive across the Hay Plain quite reguarly - and prefer night driving due to fatigue management working better for me at night than daylight - as you know the Hay has multiple stretches of track where you get 120km gaps between towns and where your only objects of
distraction are roos, cattle or vehicles. belting a roo or beef at 110kph is not going to end well for the animal and most likely not happy for the vehicle (unless you're a double B or a 34 wheeler) - so being able to see them well ahead so that you can slow down or go into defensive driving is a must. I used to get far more early warning with the LF's than I did with the Narva taurus/Bulls (you can keep your IPF's they're overpriced for what they do)

At the moment I'm running a 32" LED bar as a centre mount, 2 x 8" OLEDONE LED bars for spread and 2 x 55w HIDS for depth - in over 40 years of long distance driving this is the best combination I've ever had for long distance and offroad work. I've no doubt read the same 4wd aust mags as you have - and what I found was that real world testing and use counted for far more than some academic opinion done in a mag - sure the mags are helpful and can inform - but seriously, ask people who use them - and if possible test drive them

ultimately it gets down to your driving requirements and personal taste - but do your homework properly. Some of the dumbest advice I've ever received was from my engineers who assumed that they knew everything - its a darn shame that they didn't have a decent conversation with the operators and actually understood what they needed rather than tell them things based on their own inherent bias (techno snobs abound with engineers - and I've had them all unfort)
 

Echo63

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Lets have a little reality check seeing you're australian. What do you see on the front of the majority of double B's and 34 wheelers that you see driving down the hume, federal and pacific highways (ie 90% of australias trucking trafffic goes down these highways) - the majority are using LF 240's and LF XGT's, after that its Narva Taurus/Bull lights. South/north through central australia and they're usually LF240's - the majority are not salaried drivers - they're spending their own coin - and when their rigs are setting them back $250k-400k then they aren't wasting money on stuff that doesn't work.

not from what i have observed

I did an informal survey the other week when i was on the Great Northern Hwy - heading north from Perth to New Norcia (the first 130ish km of WA's busiest trucking routes - north to the Pilbara)
Here is the breakdown -
At least 30 trucks with Hella Rallye4000 - some with more than one pair (the most I saw was 6 lights)
3 with lightforce - one had Hellas as well. all were the 240mm reflectors, but I don't know which versions. one truck had 4 lightforce lights.

And 5 "others" including Narva "bull lights" what appeared to be cibie super oscars, hella rallye 2000 and 4000 compact. Some had a combination of "other"
 

-Virgil-

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I see so much rubbish bagging Lightforce in these forums over the last few years that I question the motivation

I can't speak for anyone else, but my low opinion of Lightforce's stuff is primarily due to their many marketing claims and practices that really are not based in fact, science, or reality. Everyone's welcome to an opinion, but facts are facts and they remain so despite whatever opinions might arise to their contrary.
 

gf0012-aust

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not from what i have observed


I did an informal survey the other week when i was on the Great Northern Hwy - heading north from Perth to New Norcia (the first 130ish km of WA's busiest trucking routes - north to the Pilbara)
Here is the breakdown -
At least 30 trucks with Hella Rallye4000 - some with more than one pair (the most I saw was 6 lights)
3 with lightforce - one had Hellas as well. all were the 240mm reflectors, but I don't know which versions. one truck had 4 lightforce lights.

And 5 "others" including Narva "bull lights" what appeared to be cibie super oscars, hella rallye 2000 and 4000 compact. Some had a combination of "other"

Don't get to the west much, so take your word for it. certainly my experience on the east and on those 3 highways is different

I see quite a few LF 240/XGT and LED bar combos creeping in.

I've come to discover that light critics are like film critics - often divorced from what the gate numbers say. What happens in real life (and amongst professional drivers) is often the opposite of what the engineers and techno snobs reckon is better.

I don't have LF now (have a pair of Nane 8" with Phillips Vision plus bulbs instead)

I'd have no qualms about using them again - I can get LF240's for half the price of IPF-9000's and IMO i get more usable light

My prev stands, people need to make judgements based on real life use, or speaking to others.

On any given sunday I'll take real world experience from people who use them every day and have a requirement over a professional critic. At least I have a coherent baseline to start from.

current setup on my shorty

Shorty+LED+34RF.JPG
 
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Echo63

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Nice Patrol - I was taken home from hospital in, and later learnt to drive in an '81 MQ Patrol, that still runs - the old 3.3 NA diesel is pretty much bombproof.
When it had spotlights it just had a pair of Cibie Oscars (driving pattern)
 

-Virgil-

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Keep in mind that not understanding something does not make it go away or stop happening or happen the way one imagines it does. In fact our human eyes and brain don't do a good job of assessing their own performance. How well we think we can see usually is not in line with how well we can actually see. That's what creates the difference between objective measurements and subjective preferences, it's nothing to do with snobbery. The real world works according to physics and facts. It keeps working according to physics and facts no matter who might have a subjective opinion to the contrary, and no matter who might spend money promoting something that sells successfully despite not being based in fact -- those blue lens covers on your headlamps, for example, objectively worsen your seeing in all conditions. You may like them (subjective preference), you may think you can see better with them (subjective preference) but in actual, measurable fact they are working against you.

It's often helpful to solicit opinions and experience when making a new choice, but it's not very wise to exclude facts, measurements, and reality from the decisionmaking process. Opinions are not reality. Subjective impressions and preferences are not facts.
 

gf0012-aust

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selection is about a multitude of things -not just sole source opinions from engineers, mags, personal experience.

eg, having seen your comments on blue lights for HIDS prev, you might have seen my comments on same re people making silly kelvin rating choices

in my case, I'm running lens covers because they are what I had available for a water crossing - I also have clears - I covered the light with what I had. Why?? well, when you do a deep water crossing (bonnet level water) then lights have a tendency to crack with the sudden temp change - I'm probably on my 4th pair - lens covers stop the rapid temp change and the lights don't crack anymore.

driving across water at <20kph is not about vision for the lights - its about protecting the lens as much as poss so that when you exit the river you have a complete lens still sitting in the bucket. not sure if you've ever used blue covers in snow country - but they also do make a difference in reflected glare - now your eyes might not care, but the snow recovery teams must think they work as they use them on their buggies and 4wd's here as well

again, my purchases are based on driving benefit. I'm pretty sure that when I can measure the distance between my HIDS and Halogens, the delta is the difference between speed and distance. a 200m delta is 5.5 extra seconds of extra braking distance.

in my part of the world - thats important - and thats subjective measurable data. and its working for me.

people make their own choices, and just because they differ, doesn't make their end decision less valuable or not - ultimately its based on their own range of important requirements

in this case, my choice of lights over the last 40 years of driving is directly informed by my own driving experiences over a wide range of conditions. Brochures and technical opinions are but a subset of the decision making process. Real world experience means far more to me. I've worked with many an engineer who thought that the meaning of life was empirical data - funnily enough when we go back and try to establish why the equipment failed, we discover that they often ignore user input as they "knew better"

ps I used to work in spectrum analysis where similar principles to the behaviour of light occur.
 

gf0012-aust

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Nice Patrol - I was taken home from hospital in, and later learnt to drive in an '81 MQ Patrol, that still runs - the old 3.3 NA diesel is pretty much bombproof.
When it had spotlights it just had a pair of Cibie Oscars (driving pattern)

They're tough little buggers :) I've also got a LWB Maverick and a Range Rover with a 351w in it - the shorty is the fun one though. They're like the everready bunny - they just go and go and go...
 

Alaric Darconville

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not sure if you've ever used blue covers in snow country - but they also do make a difference in reflected glare - now your eyes might not care, but the snow recovery teams must think they work as they use them on their buggies and 4wd's here as well

Not sure if you've ever used square tires in snow country, but they also do make a difference in traction - now, your brakes might not care...
Sure, it's true that blue light makes a difference in reflected glare-- the difference being that it's harder for the eye to process and so seeing performance is substantially worsened (see this study). (Just as square tires are going to be much worse to drive on than round ones. I can come up with some kind of mumbo jumbo to make it seem like the square ones are better, but I'd have to depend on falsehoods to do so.)


again, my purchases are based on driving benefit. I'm pretty sure that when I can measure the distance between my HIDS and Halogens, the delta is the difference between speed and distance. a 200m delta is 5.5 extra seconds of extra braking distance.
So, you're going about 195Km/H?

in my part of the world - thats important - and thats subjective measurable data. and its working for me.
Subjective data isn't exactly measurable in the sense that objective data is.

people make their own choices, and just because they differ, doesn't make their end decision less valuable or not - ultimately its based on their own range of important requirements
When they differ because of a misapprehension of facts, it DOES change the value of their end decision. Unless their requirements are to see poorly, their opinion of what works versus what the facts say works will lose out every time.

in this case, my choice of lights over the last 40 years of driving is directly informed by my own driving experiences over a wide range of conditions. Brochures and technical opinions are but a subset of the decision making process.
This is why one should use technical data.
I've worked with many an engineer who thought that the meaning of life was empirical data - funnily enough when we go back and try to establish why the equipment failed, we discover that they often ignore user input as they "knew better"

More likely the user ignored the instructions for the proper use of the machine, thinking they "knew better" than to not exceed the rated working load, or to not use a different lubricant, or to not bypass safety mechanisms.
 
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-Virgil-

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"Subjective measurable data" is an interesting phrase without a meaning.
Data and measurements are objective. There is no such thing as "subjective data" or a "subjective measurement". If a statement of quantity (distance, quality, size, etc.) is subjective, it is a guess or an estimate -- not a measurement. If an observation is subjective, it is an opinion or an impression or an anecdote -- not a datum.
 
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gf0012-aust

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Alaric, I've been grazing through this forum for 4+ years - and I realise that I'm an infrequent poster - but I am a long time observer


I would expect that the rules about respect apply to all - even though like all forums, some members are regarded as pandas (I moderate on a few military forums so am more than aware of the codes of conduct and expected manners we ask all to read and comply with)

Now although as expected some of you are wedded to your ideas, it doesn't cement your arguments by mocking or trivialising other posters comments.

How about others read the forum rules before having a quick cheap slash?

Now from what I can see, my posting has not targetted or trivialised anyone else in here - but unfort as I have seen in the past, those who don't subscribe to similar views get pilloried from afar. That is despite me being and staying polite.

As on the forums I moderate on, I would expect the moderation to be universal and consistent.

Or is that too much to ask - even of senior members?
 

-Virgil-

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Again: you are not being "pilloried" because of your preferences and opinions. You're being criticized for advancing the notion that all opinions and preferences are equally valid, no matter how far separated they might be from any factual basis. You're welcome to hold your own opinions; that's everyone's right. But you must realize that you're debating with people armed with facts and science, and if all you bring is assumptions and subjective observations and snide namecalling, you won't make much headway or earn much respect (and in fact the opposite is likely to occur).

This thread has served its purpose and more than run its course, and is teetering on the edge of bursting into flame. For that reason, it's now closed.
 
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