Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside!

gripnSUREFIRE

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Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside!

Some of you may know im a fan of SF ;)
Up until now, I have exhausted just about every way to set up my current fav platform - SF E2E - to no avail. (Im talking LED alternatives, not factory bulb)

Why the E2E?
Small form factor for 17670, deep carry clip is awesome (from A2l, LX2 etc) Durability. Tailstands (with appropriate cap). FW clicky. Of course lego'ing is fun.
One of them is a triple XPG setup that is awesome, but only High mode so I have to carry a smaller light for close work. Love the "focused" flood though!

I think it may be time for me to think outside the (wonderful) SF box :poof:

What am I looking for? I DO like:
Powerful flood, like the XML. I like Neutral tint (not warm, but not blue) Just plain ol white..more towards the cool side
Decent run times (running li-ion)- 17670 or 14500... maybe single 16340? (18650 lights are too big for me to carry EDC) Ability to run standard batts I would say is a plus.
UI) Either- low mode, then High... maybe variable (havent tried variable) (IE: I like the Fury UI best, useable low...then HIGH. This UI needs no memory)
Durable
Tailstands
Tail switch (forward clicky w momentary)
GOOD clip, I prefer deep carry bezel down

What I do NOT like:
Twistys. Sorry but I really do not like twisty lights.
Crappy clips, and bezel up carry....I dont need a spiked bezel hanging out of my pocket. Unfortunately, im not a ninja by trade :sssh:
Strobe and SOS...dont need them


What lights have I been pondering?
Nitecore EX11 (not XML though..) I like jumping to high fast no matter where its set. I like being able to get an AA variant as well
Sunwayman (XML?) (not sure about the variable ring, never handled one) I like being able to get an AA variant as well


I filled out the questionnaire as well :p Thanks for your insight my friends!

1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
_x___I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :)

____Less than $25.
____Less than $50.
___x_Less than $100.
____Less than $150.
____Less than $300.
____I have no limit.
_x___I'm flexible, tell me what you gotJ.
____Other, please specify ________


3) Format:

_x___I want a flashlight.
____I want a headlamp.
____I want a lantern.
____I want a dive light.
____I want a portable spotlight.


4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

____Keychain size.
__x__Every day carry small (2-4 inches).
__x__Every day carry medium (4-7 inches).
____Holster carry.
____Big enough to need its own travel caseJ.
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____N/A


5) Emitter/Light source:

__x__LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.


6) Manufacturer:

__x__I want to buy a light from a traditional mass producing manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
____I would consider getting a light that is pieced together (for example a "host" or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a "drop-in" emitter from another source). Under the right circumstances, this path can provide more options to the consumer to meet specific needs, and can often be easily upgradeable as technology improves.


7) What battery type do you want to use?

___x_I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today's most powerful lights)
____I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
__x__I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
__x__I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
____I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
__x__I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
__x__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
____I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.

____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
___x_5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
__x__30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
____150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
__x__30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
___x_90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
____3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
__x__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):

__x__I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
__x__I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today's high end lights).
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
__x__I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
____I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
____I want a strobe mode. (Blinks to show location.)
____I want SOS mode.
____I want a beacon mode.
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
____Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
___x_I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________.


15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.

____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
____Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments
 
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Wil

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

With the exception of the carry clip, the Sunwayman V20C meets all your requirements but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a clip.
I'm very happy with mine and am happy to answer any questions you have about it.
 

Random Dan

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

You say that 18650 lights are too big, but there are many 18650 lights that are within your size parameters of 4-7 inches?

If you want smaller lights, the Zebralight SC31, SC51, and SC80 seem to fit your criteria.
 

gripnSUREFIRE

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

My apologies. When I mention 18650 lights being too large...Im speaking in "girth". However, for the right light (with my mentioned likes) I could make a sacrifice :)
I carry the Fury from time to time, but obviously it has no clip...which is a bummer for me. I would consider it a large light for EDC purposes.

Updated "the list"
 
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Random Dan

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

My apologies. When I mention 18650 lights being too large...Im speaking in "girth". However, for the right light (with my mentioned likes) I could make a sacrifice :)
I carry the Fury from time to time, but obviously it has no clip...which is a bummer for me. I would consider it a large light for EDC purposes.

Updated "the list"

Then I'd recommend the Zebralight SC60. At 1"x4" it's definitely at the smaller end of 18650 lights, but it can still put out 300 lumens for 2 hours. It's been discontinued, but you can still buy them from Zebralight for now. I carry mine every day and love it.
 

skyfire

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

how about a E2L thats modded with a XM-L or XP-G with a more floody optic? i dont know how well the driver does with a single li-ion though.

mcclicky tailcap, or z68 for tailstanding.

precisionworks has bored out E2 bodies for 18650 before.
 

borealis

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

V11R with the AA extension will let you use 16340 or 14500 sizes. XM-L T6 (cool -- not neutral, but not blue), tail stands, tail fwd clicky, bezel-down clip, no SOS or strobe, 3.25"-4". I read here about a clip problem with early versions but it was fixed. No problems with the two I have. It's not a deep-carry clip, but you can probably just get rid of it and use something like this.

I measured current draw between 14mA and 1.7A at 4V, so based on battery capacity you can figure out how long it lasts. I'm guessing with a 850mAh 16340 it's between 30min and 60hrs.

Try the variable ring. You just might never go back.
 
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gripnSUREFIRE

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

how about a E2L thats modded with a XM-L or XP-G with a more floody optic? i dont know how well the driver does with a single li-ion though.

mcclicky tailcap, or z68 for tailstanding.

precisionworks has bored out E2 bodies for 18650 before.
Thats not a bad idea, may have to give it some thought with an outdoorsmen I have...
I have read that PW have bored the E-Series for 18650, however in a couple spots it gets tin foil thin. Being this would be a main EDC, and is subject to being dropped...I would be afraid to crack the head off the body!

Then I'd recommend the Zebralight SC60. At 1"x4" it's definitely at the smaller end of 18650 lights, but it can still put out 300 lumens for 2 hours. It's been discontinued, but you can still buy them from Zebralight for now. I carry mine every day and love it.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am not a fan of the side button.


V11R with the AA extension will let you use 16340 or 14500 sizes. XM-L T6 (cool -- not neutral, but not blue), tail stands, tail fwd clicky, bezel-down clip, no SOS or strobe, 3.25"-4". I read here about a clip problem with early versions but it was fixed. No problems with the two I have. It's not a deep-carry clip, but you can probably just get rid of it and use something like this.

This is looking more and more like a viable option. I am spoiled by tail switch operation, but I cant knock the ring until I try it.
 
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reppans

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You could configure a Quark Tactical XML to your spec.

- 280 (listed) - 400 (Selfbuilt) lumen high on 1x14500
- ~200hr max runtime on moonlight
- program two modes out of 8 separated by a bezel twist
- NW or CW
- Optional 1xAA tube
- Optional tail-standing reverse clicky OR shrouded forward turbo clicky (but wider)
- 0.9-4.2V

Love the idea of variable ring lights, but you'll forfeit low lumen runtimes.
 

borealis

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Love the idea of variable ring lights, but you'll forfeit low lumen runtimes.
This may only be true for the current Sunwayman lights, which aren't as efficient as other lights on low low modes. I'm guessing/hoping it's caused by having to power the solid state compass. QTC lights should have better runtimes, but they are twisties and don't fit OP's criteria.

I got tired of cycling through modes on multi-mode clickies, but to each his own :)
 

reppans

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This may only be true for the current Sunwayman lights, which aren't as efficient as other lights on low low modes. I'm guessing/hoping it's caused by having to power the solid state compass. QTC lights should have better runtimes, but they are twisties and don't fit OP's criteria.

I got tired of cycling through modes on multi-mode clickies, but to each his own :)

Seems to be similar with Jetbeam, HDS and Surefire too, although not as bad as SWM. Cycling may not be an issue as the OP asked for a 2 mode light, which the Tactical is.
 

Lucciola

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

+1 for the Quark tactical.

Seems to fit your bill perfectly, especially the XML models which have a very nice flood. Just bear in mind that the XML have the best performance with higher voltages, so 2xCR123 or lithium rechargeables should be preferred. Don't expect miracles with eneloops or alkaleaks.

I have a Quark X 123² tactical in neutral white. Flood is great and the tint is just what I like (i.e. not green or blue). But even with the advertised 360lumens the floody beam does not reach too far. For close and medium range however it is the perfect beam. I combined the light with the optional deep-carry clip. This and the small size makes it a very nice light for EDC with terrific value-for-money.

I do also have the Quark X 123² Turbo which has more throw while still being useable on close to medium range. I like it more than the normal Quark X 123², but the bezel is so large that it is certainly *not* a good choice for EDC carry. In fact I never take it with me "just in case" but only if I know in advance that I will need a flashlight.

Now. Having written all the above let me tell you this: Forget what you just read. Forget your initial list and most important forget your budget. :D :D :D Order yourself a Surefire E1B Backup and don't look back. If you really look for the "grail" EDC - this is it.

Oh well, got off track again. I'm just too damn happy with this little black sucker... You want to think outside the Surefire-box. Well, good luck in finding something better...
:fail: :crackup:
 

cland72

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Order yourself a Surefire E1B Backup and don't look back. If you really look for the "grail" EDC - this is it.

Man's got a point... I got one about a week ago, and it is freaking awesome. If you need flood, just add a F04 diffuser to it. Only thing that could be improved about it would be knurling on the body and tailcap similar to the E1E.
 
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CarpentryHero

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

The reason that the low mode runtimes on Sunwayman are worse is because they don't use PWM (pulse width modulation) pwm bothers some people more than others.
The control rings use some juice but on the bright side there's no parasitic drain.

I like the Sunwayman V11r, I have the hi cri (warm XML) and its pretty sweet. HidCanada was selling a limited run ;) an its was worth it
 

CarpentryHero

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Surefire EB1 comes out soon that'd be an awesome choice
Surefire L1 modded with a Nuetral XML by MilkySpit would be awesome
sunwayman V10a or V10r an get Think2X to put the tint of XML you want in it :D
 

reppans

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The reason that the low mode runtimes on Sunwayman are worse is because they don't use PWM (pulse width modulation)

Not sure if that is right... my understanding is that good current regulation is more efficient than PWM. In any case all non-mini Quarks and many (most) Zebralights are current regulated on all their constant modes and have runtimes multiples of the SWM V series lights.
 

borealis

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Not sure if that is right... my understanding is that good current regulation is more efficient than PWM. In any case all non-mini Quarks and many (most) Zebralights are current regulated on all their constant modes and have runtimes multiples of the SWM V series lights.
Are you saying that the "non-mini Quarks and (most) Zebralights" have a slightly brighter beam at the same current? The low mode runtime of the V-series is understated by about a factor of 2. You have to look at the current used for a given level of brightness, from which you can calculate actual runtime. You can't just look at what's written on the box.

But I agree that it probably has nothing to do with lack of PWM.
 

gripnSUREFIRE

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Man's got a point... I got one about a week ago, and it is freaking awesome. If you need flood, just add a F04 diffuser to it. Only thing that could be improved about it would be knurling on the body and tailcap similar to the E1E.

I have had a few E1B, I am not a fan of the Hi-Lo UI. If the E2DL and E1B were reversed UI...that would be most excellent (for throwers). E1B clip, legendary IMO (same for LX2/A2L)

For me, I think that the UI of the Fury is ideal (if we are talking no moon mode) Lo-Hi with no memory 15L/500L.
Ultimately, I feel that with how close the E2E and E1E series are in size...ill take the 2 cell any day. Larger battery (17670), and better "in hand feel" balance IMO.
 

cland72

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

Maybe OR will come out with something we'll both want to put in an E2E :grin2:
 

Lucciola

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Re: Looking for an EDC "grail" light - (yea right I know) :) - Listed Details inside

I have had a few E1B, I am not a fan of the Hi-Lo UI. If the E2DL and E1B were reversed UI...that would be most excellent (for throwers). E1B clip, legendary IMO (same for LX2/A2L)
Well, my experience is that whatever the UI is - in a given situation always the *wrong* mode comes first! :D Back to serious: Even though I use the low mode more often I got myself used to the E1B UI. Because if I need light *fast* I usually want everything I have. If I want the low mode I have usually more time. And especially in daylight use I often use momentary and I like the fact that high comes first because low is pretty useless in daylight.

But that's really personal taste. I think many people have the same preference as you and Surefire could please them without effort if they would just offer the E1B-clip for the E1L as well. :shrug:

The E1B is in many ways a compromise. Not the smallest, but small enough. Momentary on but no true momentary mode (i.e. without changing modes). Neither pure throw nor pure flood. Low could be slightly brighter for taking a walk at night or slightly lower for going to the bathroom.

But because it is a compromise this light is so adaptable to all of my EDC tasks. It is no specialist which is perfect for any situation but always *good enough* for the job. You can take a walk at night with it or go to the bathroom without big inconvenience. And you can use momentary even though you'll have to wait a bit between the bursts. And the beam is tight enough to deliver enough light for daylight use and broad enough for close or medium range use.

Ultimately, I feel that with how close the E2E and E1E series are in size...ill take the 2 cell any day. Larger battery (17670), and better "in hand feel" balance IMO.
Well, true, I agree. 2 cell lights are just a bit too long for my preferred carry method, clipped into the right front pocket of my jeans. A 2-cell light disturbs me when sitting down at my desk or with fastened seat belt in the car. But in a jacket or the back pockets of the jeans or even in an EDC bag I agree that there is just a small size tradeoff but significantly better performance in 2-cell lights. But the smaller 1-cell lights are more comfortable when used as "headlamp" attached to a cap.
 
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