What guns do you own? What do you recommend for a rifle and a handgun?
Good quality and reasonable price. Is it worth it to spend $1000 on a handgun?
What guns do you own? What do you recommend for a rifle and a handgun?
Good quality and reasonable price. Is it worth it to spend $1000 on a handgun?
A Ruger 10/22 is always a great place to start if you are new to guns.
"Push back the night" - Bob Weir
What are good brands to look for? For instance, Surefire is good for lights, then there is Fenix, and Sunwayman which are imports, but still very good. What would be the equivalent of HDS, Surefire, or Malkoff? What would be close to Fenix? Are there brands like Ultrafire, Trustfire, Magicfire, Superfire, etc..to watch out for?
I've heard of Glock, Springfield, Colt, Beretta, Browning, S&W.
Best thing is to go to a gun shop and try every gun you can, then choose the one that best fits you.
Go to a gun shop look around. See what you like. Rent that gun at the shooting range before buying it. You may not like how it shoots for you. Find a caliber you like and can afford to shoot!
Come hang out with me and the guys at Glocktalk.com
Based on your question, it sounds like you're just starting out. I'd recommend a .22 lr with a simple UI (Glock-type) pistol or revolver and the ubiquitous Ruger 10/22.
The nicest thing about not planning for a disaster is that it comes as a complete surprise and is not preceded by a period of worry and depression
Really depends on what do you plan to use it for. Form follows function, no you do not have to spend $1000 on any gun [unless it happened to be a collectors grade infantry rifle buddies of your grandaddy toted into the Pacific theatre. ]
I began with a Yugo M48 mauser, which now surplus has all but dried up. A mosin nagant would fit this category here just fine. Ammo is plentiful, will penetrate just about everything, and a very brutal recoil. In retrospect, I wish I had started with a Ruger 10/22. Low cost, practical, and easy to maintain, and after a long day at the range my shoulder won't need a weekend to recover.
From a pistol standpoint my experiences are very limited. of all the pistols I've shot, Glock 19 is probably the best pistol I've used and maintained. A good balance between size and simplicity. Rather than going into a gun shop directly, frequent the range first, get familiar with the different rend guns and see which model or company that feels best in your hands. Different companies have slightly different handle pitches, not all fit comfortably. Learn along the way the proper handling of firearms, how to clear the action, etc. Most weapons share the same mode of operation [save the oddballs like the Hakim rifle and the Luger pistol...].
To date, currently in the cabinet:
All companies one way or another will have lemons, it shouldn't in any way be used to judge the company as a whole. There are certain companies that are known for notoriously bad customer service, but thats about it. My luck is holding out so far, but then again most of mine is military surplus.Code:Rifle 1891 Argentine Mauser Sporter 7.65x53 Argentine VZ24 Romanian Mauser 7.92x27 Mauser VZ24 Czech Mauser 7.92x57 Mauser Keltec SU-16CA 5.56x45 NATO Shotgun S.S. Kresge Mod 151 12GA 7-1/2 Shot Handgun Keltec PF9 9x19 Parabellum Glock 19 in the works... 9x19 Parabellum
Last edited by Illum; 07-27-2012 at 07:38 PM.
CPFBiology, you have already received some great advice, ie Renting the pistol before you purchase it. + 1 When I was trying to decide between a 45 and a 40, I rented both from a local firearm store/range. I was surprised to find I was much more accurate with the 45 than the 40. Ask lots of questions, and remember, you're buying a pistol for you.....the one you decided on needs to meet your needs.
Beretta 686 SP and Tikka M65
The M65 is a rifle from the 80's with fantastic precision.
No handgun, i don't like that stuff.
Last edited by Mathiashogevold; 07-27-2012 at 09:01 PM.
First I'd like to know what you using them for. For example, plinking, hunting, target shooting, self-defense, action events and others.
This has a bearing on what to suggest you look at. Your buget should include the firearm, ammo, cleaning equipment, security devices and instruction. Do you have any back ground in handling firearms, if so what is it. If not it will be very smart to receive instruction from a certified instructor.
1. Assume every gun is loaded and fully functioning regardless of how it looks, age, what anyone else says, etc.
2. Do not point the gun at anything unless you intend to destroy it.
3. Do not pull the trigger unless you intend to destroy whatever the muzzle is pointed at.
4. Remove mag, then clear the chamber, pinch and pull the slide twice and check chamber twice to ensure there are no rounds.
5. Prepare for recoil.
6. Use the right caliber.
7. Keep gun pointed in a safe or generally safe direction.
8. Keep the gun unloaded and in a locking safe when not in use.
9. Be sure of target and what is beyond/behind it.
10. Use trigger locks, but realize that they are not 100% effective, a discharge can still occur.
11. Use hearing protection and eye protection.
12. Assume that any active safety is off.
13. Avoid consuming substances that impair proper judgement.
14. The most important thing to safety is good judgement and clear and safe thinking.
What are you using the handgun for? Plinking? Then get something that you can shoot a lot and not get fatigued. A 9mm is GREAT for plinking, and a lot cheaper to shoot in the long run than say .40 S&W or .45ACP.
Are you looking to carry? How? Pocket? Ankle? Inside waistband? Under a shirt on your belt?
I've carried almost every day of my life since my 18th birthday. Typically, I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP in .45ACP. When I have to, I'll carry a Kahr 9mm on my ankle or a S&W Airweight in .38 spl. If I'm in a circumstance that I can only place something in my shorts pocket, I typically opt for my Ruger LCP in .380.
If you are carrying for defense purposes, then more than anything else you want accuracy and reliability, so the gun has to fit you and it has to feed/cycle consistently. Glocks are great guns, but they fit my hand horribly. I tried for months to try to make it feel comfortable for me, but I simply hate the feel, so don't go on any single recommendation--not from me or anyone here or even your local shop because we all have our personal biases. Go somewhere that will allow you to rent handguns and try different ones out. Get a feel for the gun itself and the load. A .45 that has too much recoil to practice with regularly will not do ANYTHING for you. You're much better off with a 9mm that you can shoot often. Better to be proficient with a lighter load than try to go 'manly' with something you'll never practice with.
So is $1000 worth it for a handgun? For my Kimber CDP it was MORE than worth it (though it actually cost substantially less than that when I bought mine). But you can likely get a good, reliable handgun for less than that. Just don't compromise on a carry gun because of a couple of hundred bucks, though.
I will say much the same as others, it depends upon what you want to use it for. I have numerous firearms, handguns, rifles, shotguns, blackpowder firearms and all have different purposes. I have a variety of handguns, rifles, shotguns and black powder firearms. They range in calibers from .22 RF to ,357 mag, .45acp, 30/30, .44 mag, 12 guage and many in between. I have more Rugers and Marlins (lever actions, blot actions, and semis) than other brands, they are rugged reliable and accurate.
I prefer to have at least tw for each caliber, and think you tend to get what you pay for, to an extent. Once you get into the top brnds Ruger, Smith, Colt, CZ and others it turns into what your preferences are they are all good.
Starting out I always recommend a .22 rifle and handgun to learn the basics. Learning to shoot properly takes a lot of ammunition and a lot of people cannot afford ot shoot enough to become proficient in centerfire calibers. And becoming profieicnt is the most important thing in using a firearm, there is no excuse to not be proficient if you are going to own and shoot a firearm, especially if you plan on carrying a firearm for protection. I would recommend something like a Marlin 60 (cheaper than a 10/22 and works extremely well) or a bolt action Marlin. For handgun I prefer revolvers especially for newbies but a Ruger pistol (various models 22/45 or the Mark series) is a good place to start if you really want a pistol over a revolver. In a revolver a Ruger Single Six is excellant and gives both .22 LR and .22 magnum options.
I like rugers and Marlins for their rugged durablity and accuracy and tend to own and recommend them. I am NOT a Glock fan, they just do not fit my hand and I shoot them like crud. I prefer CZ75 designs and 1911 designs over the Glock family. I have nothing against polymer and own several , just not Glocks.
The best advice is to decide what you want it for, pick a caliber, preferrably .22 to start. Then go to the gunshop and ranges and try everything you can, at the very elast hold them. What fits in your hand will shoot best from your hand usually. No one elses experience will make you shoot a weapon well that you do not like or fits poorly.
Last edited by Lee1959; 07-28-2012 at 12:22 PM.
Life is too important to be taken seriously: Oscar Wilde
I'm a fan of Springfield, the XD/XDS being my favs. In your flashlight to gun brand comparison, you probably can't go wrong with Glock, Springfield, Sig, Kahr, Ruger, Beretta, Walther and more that some folks will probably be mad at me for not naming.
I'd say Taurus would be a more economical brand with high quality. I have the 24/7 and put tons of rounds through it with no problems.
Budget guns? I'm not sure of any. I had a Kel-Tec a long time ago, but didn't really have too many issues with that either.
Worthy of note, there are calibers that look very similar, and most likely will fire if chambered, but it is very very dangerous to do so. A common ignorance I have seen at the range was someone shooting .38 special in a gun chambered for 9mm Makarov.
8: While this is the most responsible procedure for gun owners, it pretty much turns the objective of guns a moot point. It should be better worded as Keep the guns you don't plan on using unloaded and in a locking safe when not in use. For any military surplus, sock it when not in use, lock it up. If they get out and fires in any place other than the range, you're in trouble. The bullet will pass through several houses worth of cinderblocks like chocolate, you don't need to risk that sort liability. In addition to locking them up, I lock up the bolts separately, at best it'll pass as a club.
I am a uhhhhh let's say gun enthusiast... Guns are the one place where you get what you pay for. But you need to know what your goals are before you can answer your questions. For example, if you were looking for a shotgun to occasionally use for hunting bunny wrabbits then a $500 purchase would work out great. But if you were going to use that same gun to shoot clay pigeons it wouldn't last long -- you will shoot a clays gun more times in a year than a hunting gun in a lifetime -- so you need a lot more gun and that costs a lot more...
The best thing is to find a buddy that shoots and go with him to his local range and start learning.... It's a lot like flashlights -- the more you learn the more you buy...
Before you all start throwing sticks at me, I am in Canada, a brother to the north. We do not have CCW's here. I won't be carrying whether open or concealed. It will be in a locked box in the vehicle when transported via a permit. It will go to the range only, then back home to its safe.
Can someone tell me about the different Glocks? I am a bit overwhelmed. Like I hear Glock 19 is good, but so is Glock 21. Is it really just variance in size an caliber?
I also heard that the Colt .45 1911 is back in action with the Marines. I am not one to be influenced by the crowd (usually), but this may affect my choice(s).
Also considering eventually picking up an AR-15. I hear they are lots of fun to shoot. They have been legalized for Canada as well.
I don't own a Glock. But I do own 4 or 5 M1911's. Glocks are great weapons. My son has one in .45apc and he loves it. To me it feels like a block of 2x4 wood in my hand -- but that's my fault and not the guns. The point is every gun feels different to every shooter. To me there is no pistol that feels better than a single stack M1911 -- they just fit me well.
You need to shoot both and see which feels better to you. One thing I have learned the hard way is if they don't feel good I will never learn to like them. So I've learned to not buy guns that do not feel good in my hand -- I can never learn to shoot them well.
Go try someone else's or go to a commercial range that rents guns and try them out before you invest your money...
Your list of rules in response #14 are fine. There is one that in my opinion is missing. Your rule #3 comes close but is not the same thing. I would suggest that you add to it to--- Keep you finger completely off the trigger until your on target and ready to shoot.
People have shot themselves while drawing a pistol from the holster because their finger was on the trigger. During the draw they have shot the ground between themselves and the target because their finger was on the trigger. People have been startled and by reflex clinched their hand pulling the trigger unintentionally. All of these things can be avoided by doing the above.
I want to make something clear about the above statement. When I say Keep your finger completely off the trigger until your on target and ready to shoot. I mean your trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and laying along side the frame of the gun until your on target. At that time your finger would enter the trigger guard and make contact with the trigger.
I thought some people might think it's all right to leave the trigger finger inside the trigger guard with the finger off the trigger, it's not. If you change your mind about shooting that round off, your finger should come out of the trigger guard and lay along side the frame until your ready to shoot agian.
Your mentioning to keep your finger out of the trigger guard till you are ready to shoot seems to be common sense but floating around the internet videos is the sheriffs deputy who before holstering his side arm neglected to remove his finger from off the trigger and put a round in his own foot and scared everybody in the station. We can preach and preach but some need to have an AD to wake them up hopefully and not put a round in their body or anyone else for that matter. To quote one of the History Channels mountain men"common sense ain't so common any more" I got my 1st rifle at age 10 and had handling safety mantras all the time so I would not screw up and have any ADs
will work for peanuts
Got a Winchester 94 around here that my Dad gave me forty years ago. Just like the one I used to shoot my first (and only) deer.
I have always been a big Glock fan... The different models are all just numbers so yes the difference between a G19 and G21 is just size and caliber.
Any of the well known brand names will likely be good as someone mentioned there maybe models that were "lemons". So the good would be, in no particular order, Glock, Kahr, Smith, Ruger, Springfield, Walther, Berreta, Sig, H&K, Colt, Kimber, Wilson Combat, Night Hawk, Keltec, Taurus*, and more... I included Taurus an Keltec but some of their earlier stuff left something to be desired.
I'd say find something that fits your hand well and go from there.
Stay away from High point, Jennings, brayco, anything that sounds to good to be true.
I own/have owned/shot several firearms. Will relay my impressions on everything I can recall...
Browning Buckmark .22LR target pistol. Striker-fired. Metal frame. Like all .22 autoloaders, it's sensitive to ammunition choice and needs to be well-cleaned/lubricated. Accurate due to fixed barrel and appreciable mass. Magazines aren't very good quality and expensive - recommend something like "the ultimate cliploader" to make reloading less painful if you choose one of these.
Glock 17 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. Glocks are kind of like the Honda Civic of handguns ... neither pretty nor high-performing, but they can handle the abuse and run forever. For all the detractors of "tactical tupperware", polymer-framed guns have proved amazingly durable.
Glock 21 Full size double-stack .45ACP. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. Didn't much care for it. Recoil not so manageable. I've got big hands and it was like trying to grip a 2x4.
Magnum Research Baby Eagle (Full size, I think) double-stack .45ACP. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Heavy, severe recoil, overall unpleasing to use. Somewhat surprising since it's a CZ-75 knockoff (licensed), but then again the CZ-75 isn't made in .45...
Sig P220 Full size single stack .45ACP. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Like it. Manageable recoil, easy to grip. Has a hammer and a decocker. Occasionally the punchline when someone asks "what 1911 should I get?".
Sig P226 Full size double-stack .40 S&W. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Heavy to help deal with the appreciable snap of .40 S&W. Like it. Very accurate.
Sig P6 compact single-stack 9mm (joke is that it's an 80% scale P220). Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Like it. Decently accurate, mild recoil.
Sig Pro Full size double-stack 9mm. Hammer-fired. Polymer frame. Didn't shoot this a lot, but the fact that the magazine completed the lower part of the forward grip profile was a bit weird on recoil.
Springfield 1911 Full size single stack .45ACP. Metal frame. For me, this was better than the Glock 21, about the same as the P220. Shooting one was not the spiritual experience that 1911 aficionados would have had me think it was going to be.
Springfield XD-9 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. My impression of it was similar to the Glock 17. I believe it had a lower grip angle.
Springfield XD-9 subcompact Subcompact double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Essentially the XD-9 with a shorter barrel/slide and shorter grip. Accepts full-size magazines with a sleeve to make the grip profile identical to the full-size, leading to some weird sensations on recoil
S&W M&P 9 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Good ergonomics. Trigger safety is a bit weird at first.
Walther P99 Compact double-stack 9mm or .40 S&W. Striker-fired. Beautiful gun that's an ergonomic wonder. Kicks something fierce in .40 and may eject the mag when shooting one-handed (would likely be a great gun in 9mm). Available with a number of trigger configurations; the one I shot was in double/single-action - since it's striker-fired, if you decock your next shot will be in heavier double-action.
Walther PPS Subcompact single-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. I'm quite the fan of it. Intended for carry, the PPS is appreciable more "shootable" than the true pocket guns in 9mm and .380ACP that doesn't fatigue the user so terribly. OK accuracy for its size. Extended magazines (7- or 8-rd) extend the grip, leading to some weird sensations on recoil. Stock 6-rd magazine leaves no place for your pinkie finger.
North American Arms mini Micro revolvers in numerous rimfire calibers. I'm familiar with their 5-shot .22mag variety. Useless with the stock grip - you can't even pretend to aim since recoil will tip it up appreciably. I gather the optional folding "belt clip" grip remedies this problem, making it about as accurate as a snub-nose revolver.
Ruger Blackhawk Single-action 6-shot in a variety of calibers. It's essentially a Colt Peacemaker replica (think nearly every Western movie ever) with improved sights. I'm familiar with the ~7" barrel variety in .45LC - an immense and heavy weapon. Very manageable recoil. A bit pricey to operate in .45LC. I kind of wish I'd gotten the nearly-identical New Vaquero (without the improved sights).
Ruger GP100 Double-action 6-shot. I'm familiar with the .357 4" barrel version. Unsurprisingly, it's a bit sedate with .38 SPL and lively with hot .357 rounds. Its mass helps with the recoil with heavier loads. Single- vs double-action fire are entirely different experiences... for me, double-action will start to tear skin off my trigger finger after >50 rds of .357.
Ruger Single-Six Single-action 6-shot in .22LR / .22mag. With .22LR, this has essentially zero recoil. With .22mag, the recoil is slight. Accurate, although a bit more accurate with .22mag since .22LR is 0.222" in diameter and .22mag is 0.224". Fun to shoot.
AR-15 Semi-automatic .223Remington / 5.56x45. The AR-15 has so many varieties that it's sort of a challenge to write a short description. I've handled them with everything from heavy 20" barrels to lightweight 14.5" barrels. Recoil is pretty manageable since the bullets are pretty light (but generally moving at >3000 FPS at the muzzle). Controls (safety, mag eject, slide release, charging handle) are fairly well thought out. Can be "sub-MoA" accurate at short ranges. Fairly affordable to operate with cheaper ammo so long as you don't abuse its semi-auto nature. The trick with the AR-15 is to avoid bolting on accessories worth 8 times more than the rifle that make it pointlessly heavy.
AK-47 knockoffs Semi-automatic 7.62x39. Build quality on these is all over the map. Ergonomics are not very good. I've handled Romanian (bottom of the barrel) and Yugoslavian (a step or two over the Romanians). These are not target rifles - their accuracy rapidly approaches "minute of man" beyond 200 yards, largely as a function of the immense bolt that rides somewhat loosely within the receiver. Recoil is subsequently unpleasant.
CETME Semi-automatic 7.62x51. Severe recoil similar to the AK-47 thanks to its even larger bolt within the receiver (this is due to its nature as a roller-delayed blowback action). These rifles maul brass to the point that using commercial .308 in them is not recommended (use milsurp 7.62x51 or steel-cased .308). Ergonomics fairly poor ... need superhuman thumbs to operate the safety and the charging handle can require appreciable force. While probably more accurate than the AK, these are less precision rifles, more bullet hoses. Magazines are cheap thanks to its ability to use near-identical H&K G3 magazines.
Marlin 336 Lever-action in numerous calibers. I'm familiar with the 30-30 variety. Good accuracy. Despite 30-30 being on the low end of centerfire rifle calibers in terms of muzzle energy, the 336 kicks a bit hard due to its light weight (but also handles well at the same time). I want to cry when I see these with scopes since they're brush guns and the round generally isn't effective beyond a few hundred yards.
PSL Semi-automatic 7.62x54R. Essentially a scaled-up AK-47 action chambered for x54R, which has slightly more Wheaties than .308/7.62x51. Appreciably more accurate than the AK knockoffs with similar perceived recoil thanks to the immense muzzle brake (which also makes them far louder to you and others behind it) and the crude recoil spring at the shoulder pad. Barrel length on these will remind you of the rifles that Napoleonic infantry carried. The included 4x scope is ... interesting. Expect tuning it for commercial ammunition to be a challenge.
Henry Pump Action Octagon Pump-action .22LR. These are fun, and - thanks to the regulating motion of operating a pump action - can be fired accurately in rapid succession. A bit heavy due to the barrel. Fun to shoot.
Remington 572 Fieldmaster Pump-action .22LR. Similar to the Henry, only with an internal hammer, lighter, and - in my experience - less robust internals than the newer Henry (this might be because the one I have experience with is more than 45 years old). Fun to shoot.
Ruger 10/22 Semi-automatic .22LR. A classic "plinker" rifle, the 10/22 is relatively cheap, can be decently accurate out of the box, and has a huge accessories aftermarket. Like all .22 autoloaders, it's sensitive to ammunition choice and needs to be well-cleaned/lubricated.
Savage 10FP Bolt-action in numerous calibers. I have experience with the .308 heavy barrel version. Extremely accurate with a good scope. - I regret that I never had the chance to experiment with this at ranges >100 yards.
Maverick Model 88 12-gauge pump-action. "Budget" model of the Mossberg 500. I've shot trap with one of these with a 28" barrel and it handles well. I've also shot buckshot from one with an 18.5" barrel and ... well ... best not to be hit with buckshot from 15 paces.
Remington 870 12-gauge pump-action. Really similar to the Model 88, only the 870 is immensely more friendly to modification.
I'd love to get into black power. I'm presently eyeing replica 1858 Remington and 1860 Army models. Will supposedly teach you not to "race to the bottom of the magazine" since reloading is a time-consuming process.
If budget is a concern when shopping for pistols, look for a used piece in good shape. Used steel-frame S&W's and Rugers are great values in addition to being extremely durable.
Last edited by idleprocess; 07-29-2012 at 08:46 PM. Reason: info++ ... since clearly you need MORE! Also, fact-checking courtesy Bullzeyebill
I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter
Good post idleprocess. My Rem 870 ejects from the right side, not the bottom. My Ithica's did eject from the bottom.