Idea I concocted

[ganz-lite]

While playing with my malkoff XML'd maglite (9AAs to 3D via mdocod's converter kit, 4.5v)... a thought came to my mind. If 9 Energizer AA lithiums could blast this mag idea to 700 to 800 lumens... then to make a 3D-sized mag beam-thrower would be of the utmost in awesome.

Here's how the idea would work (and no, it's not practical, but it'd be fun to watch).

We have the 9AA to 3D rack, so we can use AA-sized batteries. Now we know that with the converter it's 4.5v - a good amount, but more volts = harder drive. So what I was thinking was to use the current rack with 9 of http://www.batteryjunction.com/titan...-craa--3v.html. The result would be 9 volts within the maglite. This would kill the current malkoff drop-in (which maxes out at 6v), but would be amazing for a multi-LED setup. (maybe 3 or 4 XMLs in a cluster for a nasty throw light.)

What I would like to know is the following:
1. what do people think of the linked batteries
2. which drop-in would work with such a battery? (I wish malkoff would make an xml LED capable of 9v and higher)
3. does anyone on CPF make such a multi-XML drop-in for a 3D mag that has a HS?

Jason

[AnAppleSnail]

a good amount, but more volts = harder drive

A common misconception. The LED driver determines the range of acceptable voltages. That driver may run 'hotter' at higher voltages, but usually won't tolerate over-volting. More voltage DOES put less strain on your batteries, though.

So what I was thinking was to use the current rack with 9 of http://www.batteryjunction.com/titan...-craa--3v.html. The result would be 9 volts within the maglite. This would kill the current malkoff drop-in (which maxes out at 6v), but would be amazing for a multi-LED setup. (maybe 3 or 4 XMLs in a cluster for a nasty throw light.)

Not if you want it to be small. 4 XMLs would have poor throw in a mag-sized head. 1 LED (Even a dinky XP-C) in the Mag Lite reflector, or behind a single aspheric, would vastly out-perform for throw. Now, if you're going to start duct-taping mag heads together, you're on the right track! But throw basically follows the LED to optic size ratio.

What I would like to know is the following:
1. what do people think of the linked batteries
2. which drop-in would work with such a battery? (I wish malkoff would make an xml LED capable of 9v and higher)
3. does anyone on CPF make such a multi-XML drop-in for a 3D mag that has a HS?
Jason

If you want big light, why not:
1. Get a 3D mag. Stack 9 17670s in it in series for 32.4V nominal, and wire it to a Bridgelux 9000-lm (BXRA-56C9000-J-00). It'll take about 3 amps, which most batteries and switches can handle. You'll probably want this on a solid copper slug to take 90W for a few seconds at a time.
2. Get the cutter 16-XM-L board with no optic in a mag lite.
3. Build that mag light.

More LEDs in the same size == less throw possible.

[Gunner12]

The voltage doesn't has much to do with how powerful the light is, you also have to think about how much current the battery can hold. If you want, a 1 D Li-ion battery can probably support 3 XM-Ls at full current (for around 30 min), that would make the light even shorter while still providing a large amount of light. Or you can use 3 NiMh D cell and get a similar voltage but more runtime (and without cutting the Maglite).

Personally, I'd avoid using a ton of Li-ion batteries because if something does go wrong, you could have a pipe bomb in your hands (most of the force would probably blow out the front). If you want high voltage, it might be better to go with 3 D size Li-ions or 3 26650s (C cell diameter and a bit longer then a D cell). Less battery = lower chance of something going wrong.

I haven't see any triple XM-L drop-ins but there have been some multi LED Maglite mods. You can get the heatsink for the mod from the Custom B/S/T forum and a few places online. If I was making this myself, I'd use 3 drivers, one for each LED to avoid any Vf mismatch, and 3 NiMh D cells. It might not throw as well as single XM-L in the mag reflector because the single XM-L will get one large reflector, instead of many smaller ones for the multi emitter mod.

Multimode with multiple drivers might be hard to do, unless you can connect all the drivers to the same microcontroller.

In short:
1. That man Li-ion batteries could be dangerous, plus you don't need higher voltages to drive more LEDs, just the right driver, or one driver per LED.
2. Any drop-in that can take 6 cells can take 9v (6 1.5v cells in series = 9v)
3. I don't know of any multi XM-L drop-ins, but people have modded maglites to have multiple Cree XM-L emitters.

Good luck with your search!

[ganz-lite]

A common misconception. The LED driver determines the range of acceptable voltages. That driver may run 'hotter' at higher voltages, but usually won't tolerate over-volting. More voltage DOES put less strain on your batteries, though.

Not if you want it to be small. 4 XMLs would have poor throw in a mag-sized head. 1 LED (Even a dinky XP-C) in the Mag Lite reflector, or behind a single aspheric, would vastly out-perform for throw. Now, if you're going to start duct-taping mag heads together, you're on the right track! But throw basically follows the LED to optic size ratio.

I currently have an XML from Malkoff, but I don't want to overvolt the driver and cause *KABOOM!*

If you want big light, why not:
1. Get a 3D mag. Stack 9 17670s in it in series for 32.4V nominal, and wire it to a Bridgelux 9000-lm (BXRA-56C9000-J-00). It'll take about 3 amps, which most batteries and switches can handle. You'll probably want this on a solid copper slug to take 90W for a few seconds at a time.
2. Get the cutter 16-XM-L board with no optic in a mag lite.
3. Build that mag light.

More LEDs in the same size == less throw possible.

Where do i get the cutter 16 xml board with no optic? I aslo can't solder for health reasons

[AnAppleSnail]

Where do i get the cutter 16 xml board with no optic? I aslo can't solder for health reasons

Not even wearing a respirator? The 3M 6000 half-mask is pretty dang comfy and affordable.

www.cutter.com.au, products.php, ?cat=Leds+on+50mm+MCPCB

A 50mm PCB may be a bit large for the Mag Lite.

[ganz-lite]

Not even wearing a respirator? The 3M 6000 half-mask is pretty dang comfy and affordable.

www.cutter.com.au, products.php, ?cat=Leds+on+50mm+MCPCB

A 50mm PCB may be a bit large for the Mag Lite.

nope, i either get hives or an asthma attack, pick your poison.

[ganz-lite]

The voltage doesn't has much to do with how powerful the light is, you also have to think about how much current the battery can hold. If you want, a 1 D Li-ion battery can probably support 3 XM-Ls at full current (for around 30 min), that would make the light even shorter while still providing a large amount of light. Or you can use 3 NiMh D cell and get a similar voltage but more runtime (and without cutting the Maglite).

Personally, I'd avoid using a ton of Li-ion batteries because if something does go wrong, you could have a pipe bomb in your hands (most of the force would probably blow out the front). If you want high voltage, it might be better to go with 3 D size Li-ions or 3 26650s (C cell diameter and a bit longer then a D cell). Less battery = lower chance of something going wrong.

I haven't see any triple XM-L drop-ins but there have been some multi LED Maglite mods. You can get the heatsink for the mod from the Custom B/S/T forum and a few places online. If I was making this myself, I'd use 3 drivers, one for each LED to avoid any Vf mismatch, and 3 NiMh D cells. It might not throw as well as single XM-L in the mag reflector because the single XM-L will get one large reflector, instead of many smaller ones for the multi emitter mod.

Multimode with multiple drivers might be hard to do, unless you can connect all the drivers to the same microcontroller.

In short:
1. That man Li-ion batteries could be dangerous, plus you don't need higher voltages to drive more LEDs, just the right driver, or one driver per LED.
2. Any drop-in that can take 6 cells can take 9v (6 1.5v cells in series = 9v)
3. I don't know of any multi XM-L drop-ins, but people have modded maglites to have multiple Cree XM-L emitters.

Good luck with your search!

Gunner, even if all the lithium ions were in 3P:1S (ie: 3 in parallel = 3v), it'd be a pipebomb?

[fyrstormer]

nope, i either get hives or an asthma attack, pick your poison.

Suck it up. Lead fumes build character.

Seriously though, a solder fume extractor should let you work without an allergic reaction, because it sucks the fumes in, ionizes them, and traps them in an electrostatic filter.

[AnAppleSnail]

Gunner, even if all the lithium ions were in 3P:1S (ie: 3 in parallel = 3v), it'd be a pipebomb?

Li-Ions in parallel: One dead Li-Ion (dead short and safe fail, for example) would catastrophically drain the others. One dead Li-Ion (Dead open, safe failure) would make the others each work 50% harder...and then the next one fails (Open or closed, safely or spectacularly), and then the last Li-Ion is at 300% load...and probably will not go quietly.

Protection circuits help A LOT. But you shouldn't stake life n' limb on them. Stick to chemistries that can handle the welding-current loads and are intrinsically safe. See Battery U for more info.

[ganz-lite]

Li-Ions in parallel: One dead Li-Ion (dead short and safe fail, for example) would catastrophically drain the others. One dead Li-Ion (Dead open, safe failure) would make the others each work 50% harder...and then the next one fails (Open or closed, safely or spectacularly), and then the last Li-Ion is at 300% load...and probably will not go quietly.

Protection circuits help A LOT. But you shouldn't stake life n' limb on them. Stick to chemistries that can handle the welding-current loads and are intrinsically safe. See Battery U for more info.

Ah, ok. See, I never knew that about parallel and lithium ions (the closest i have is 9 ultimate lithium energizers... so i do admit to being a noob). What exactly is "Battery U"? Also, spectacularly... i assume that's "battery go boom, pictures of hand with stitches, shards galore"?

[AnAppleSnail]

What exactly is "Battery U"? Also, spectacularly... i assume that's "battery go boom, pictures of hand with stitches, shards galore"?

Read the 'Over-Discharging' section for Li-Ions. Batteries have some very poisonous things in them. Primaries can, if horribly abused, emit really nasty stuff (skin-absorbed vapors that cause nasty things). Lithium is pretty toxic, as are the other metals involved. In short: If you abuse batteries, they can bite. If you treat them well, they rarely will.