Best H11 bulb?

I have looked at various options for H11 bulbs for our 2005 Acura MDX. It uses NAL projectors for the low beam, with parabolic reflectors with HB3 for the high beam.

I do not believe that Philips produced the Xtreme Power bulbs in H11, and the only readily available upgrade bulb I found was the Sylvania Xtravision (which I have and have been happy with). They are actually OSRAM bulbs from Germany. Anyway, it seems that Philips does make the new Xtreme Vision in H11, but only a single eBay auction has them, and from Australia. The other upgrade H11 bulb that most online stores have is the OSRAM Night Breaker. I have used GE Nighthawks before and were happy with them; GE appears to make the Nighthawk Platinum in H11, but here again, few sellers seem to have them.

I realize that I could upgrade to H9 bulbs, but I've done that once in a projector (NAL projectors in a 2011 Camry) and the light from the "squirrel spotters" was intensely bright with those bulbs. Light reflected back from signs was too bright in my eyes, and I believe that the glare was too much for other drivers. I'm not really considering them for the MDX for that reason, but also because we use the headlamps a lot, and I don't think I'd care for the short life of the H9. I believe that even the upgrade H11s should have a greater lifespan than H9s; am I right about that?

If H9 is really the only upgrade I should consider, despite the potential for unwanted glare from the "squirrel spotters", then I might try them again.

Here is a reference photo of the MDX's beam pattern, with the "squirrel spotters" circled. This is not my photo, but one posted to MDXers.org. What is the technical/correct name for those "squirrel spotters"?

The "squirrel spotters" are to light up overhead signs. The light in this location is controlled by a metal flap protruding horizontally, rearward from the (vertical) cutoff shield, above the cutout in the cutoff shield that provides the overhead sign light's exit path. You can reach forward into the projector with something small and grippy (new pencil with soft eraser or somesuch) and push this "awning" downward towards the cutoff shield. This will reduce the amount of light exiting through the cutout. You can fold it about halfway closed if you still want some light from the "spotters", or all the way closed if you feel you'll have enough road bounce light to read overhead signs without the spotters, and want to reduce self-glare in rain/fog/snow to a minimum.

Then go ahead and use the H9, which is a much more cost-effective upgrade than any of the high-oomph H11s.

Tell me more about the H9 for this; is it a pop-in or is there a mod to fit it?

It looks to be pretty simple mod. As a 4th dan in Google Foo, I found some pics that seem to be what you need to do. Unless it's an elaborate ruse, and if so-- well played, photobucketer. Well played.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/dkny10001/H11 and H9/H9toH11_1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/dkny10001/H11 and H9/H9toH11_2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/dkny10001/H11 and H9/H9toH11_3.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/dkny10001/H11 and H9/H9toH11_4.jpg

It does appear that he's suggesting one does this to fog lamps-- I wouldn't recommend it for fog lamps.

Also, it appears that he was so close, yet so far away, by getting a blue-tinted H9. What a Goofus. (Gallant uses only untinted bulbs).

Right, that's important: this mod works safely in projector low beams aimed properly, and in any type of H11 high beam or driving lamp, but not in many reflector-type US low beams and not in fog lamps (too much glare no matter how the lamps are aimed).

Props to A.D. for the Goofus and Gallant reference!

Thanks.

I was asking on behalf of FIAT owners with H11 lowbeams. It comes with a very nice Osram H11 that does a fantastic job. Best stock fogs I've ever owned.
A member on the FIAT board installed PIAA yellow H11 bulbs ---- not a horrible outcome.
I haven't looked at how the lamp is assembled yet but I let them know about the Duplicolor Metalcast Yellow approach to tinting.

Thanks guys. One thing that interests me in the H9 vs. H11 discussion is the actual difference in heat output from the bulb. Does it stand to reason that since the bulb is nominally rated at 65W vs. 55W (an 18% increase), then one could assume that an H9 bulb runs at a physical temperature of 18% higher than an H11 bulb, such as 295*C vs. 250*C or something similar?

hokiefyd said:

Thanks guys. One thing that interests me in the H9 vs. H11 discussion is the actual difference in heat output from the bulb. Does it stand to reason that since the bulb is nominally rated at 65W vs. 55W (an 18% increase), then one could assume that an H9 bulb runs at a physical temperature of 18% higher than an H11 bulb, such as 295*C vs. 250*C or something similar?

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Temperature is not a measure of heat. The filament temperatures may be rather close to each other, but the heat output can be significantly different.

Assuming (just for absolute simplicity), that the bulbs in question release ONLY heat, a 55W bulb would release 188Btu/hr, and the 65W bulb would release 222Btu/hr. Because these bulbs put out light, the efficiency of the bulb may change those numbers slightly, as more (or less) of the input electricity is converted to light. The more efficient the bulb, the less heat is emitted.

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying; is there any way to estimate the difference in heat generated?

The H11 is actually nominally rated at 50W, according to Mr. Stern's website, so that was my mistake from before (calling it 55W). It produces 1200 lumens @ 50W. An H9 produces 2100 lumens @ 65W. An H9 is more efficient (32 lumens/watt) than an H11 (24 lumens/watt), but uses more current. If I understand you correctly, the H9 would necessarily generate more heat if its efficiency were the same (24 lumens/watt, or 1560 lumens), due to the greater watts. The inverse would also true, right: it would necessarily generate less heat if its wattage were the same and it put out more light, because it would have a higher efficiency.

How does one use both variables (wattage and efficiency) to understand the amount of heat generated?

Or, perhaps more simply, is there absolutely no worry with heat (ie. housing damage) running an H9 in an H11 projector?

Thank you again.

Alaric D, I see a nit to pick: when you are talking about bulb "efficiency" having an influence on the amount of heat vs. the amount of light, you should be talking about efficacy, which is expressed in lumens (light output) per watt (power input).

Also keep in mind that when we are talking about glowing-filament light sources, whether tungsten or tungsten-halogen, the overwhelming majority of their output is heat, so even if the efficacy of 55w bulb "A" is (let's say) 40% greater than that of 55w bulb "B", the two bulbs' heat output will be very closely similar.

hokiefyd said:

The H11 is actually nominally rated at 50W, according to Mr. Stern's website

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Mmm...no, the H11's rating is 55w nominal at 12.0v; max 62 actual watts at 13.2v per ECE Reg 37 and 55w nominal/59w max at 12.8v per US 49CFR564. Stern's site shows this; I'm looking here

It produces 1200 lumens @ 50W.

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No, it produces 1350 ± 135 lumens at 13.2v; 1250 ± 150 lumens at 12.8v.

An H9 produces 2100 lumens @ 65W

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2100 ± 210 lumens at 13.2v with 73w max consumption; 2000 ± 240 lumens at 12.8v with 70w max consumption.

An H9 is more efficient

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An H9 is more efficacious. Efficiency is not the relevant quantity here.

is there absolutely no worry with heat (ie. housing damage) running an H9 in an H11 projector?

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An absolute general assertion of this nature couldn't be made, but in the projector in your application there'd be no problem.

Scheinwerfermann said:

Mmm...no, the H11's rating is 55w nominal at 12.0v; max 62 actual watts at 13.2v per ECE Reg 37 and 55w nominal/59w max at 12.8v per US 49CFR564. Stern's site shows this; I'm looking here.

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That's very odd. I looked at that very page just this morning when I made that post, and I swear it said 50W! I use his site so often, it's bookmarked on my computer.

Either way, thank you for the correction.

Scheinwerfermann said:

An absolute general assertion of this nature couldn't be made, but in the projector in your application there'd be no problem.

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I guess that's the bottom line. I'm still interested in the theoretical difference in heat generated between the two bulbs, but it doesn't appear that there's an easy answer to that.

I'm curious: when would this be known to NOT be a viable swap, in terms of heat? Are you perhaps talking about very small, maybe weather-sealed projector units (such as the fog lamps on a newer Ford Fusion for example)?

The H9 swap can never be considered appropriate for a fog lamp, regardless of its optical configuration or size. A cheap lamp (or a very small one) designed for an H11 light source would likely not fare well with an H9. I can't think of any specific examples at the moment, but I know they are out there.

Scheinwerfermann said:

Alaric D, I see a nit to pick: when you are talking about bulb "efficiency" having an influence on the amount of heat vs. the amount of light, you should be talking about efficacy, which is expressed in lumens (light output) per watt (power input).

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I was lingering over the word choice. I chose... Poorly.

Also keep in mind that when we are talking about glowing-filament light sources, whether tungsten or tungsten-halogen, the overwhelming majority of their output is heat, so even if the efficacy of 55w bulb "A" is (let's say) 40% greater than that of 55w bulb "B", the two bulbs' heat output will be very closely similar.

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Using as XXTREME examples, the "Vintage Style Bulb" by/sold by Feit Electric with its 275lm output puts out more heat than a 72W halogen at 1490lm. (4.6lm/W vs. 20.7lm/W). The first bulb would put out about 194.6Btu/hr; the second would put out about 194.8Btu/hr. A particular 60W halogen bulb I found elsewhere was only 840lm, or 14lm/W, and is therefore more ridonkulously more efficacious than the "Vintage" bulb, but the heat output is 176Btu/Hr (granted, there is also UV energy released by each that can also reintroduce heat into the system, and all that).

It takes quite a bit of luminous efficacy at the same wattage to produce a measurable difference. If the additional 20Btu/hr is that critical to a lighting system, *wow*. So, yes, it's a very minor difference and the system has problems if it can't accomodate such a difference.

Does this mean that it's safe to use a 72W halogen in a household fixture that can handle the 60W "vintage" bulb? *I* wouldn't risk it, especially in a base up configuration...

I spent years routinely disregarding those "CAUTION: 60W BULB MAX!" decals on household light fixtures. I used 100w items. Never burned anything up or down. That does not mean it was a good idea, but while I would take a careful look at the luminaire (fixture), I would generally not hesitate to replace a 60w bulb with a 72w bulb. But these days I'd put in the 17w Philips LED bulb instead, and now we're way off topic!

Perhaps the caution is in case someone puts a 100W bulb in a luminaire marked for 60W, and then throws a red towel over the shade to "set the mood" If it's got a ceramic base, and it's base down, I'm much more likely to upgrade (so long as the shade isn't so close to the bulb and the venting at the top is decent).

Going from 55W to 65W in an automotive fixture shouldn't be a thermal problem, but I would wager that if the wiring is too thin, that 65W bulb will be pretty starved for voltage, negating the advantage that might be gained with such a bulb. The lamp assemblies *should* be good for it...

Alaric Darconville said:

Perhaps the caution is in case someone puts a 100W bulb in a luminaire marked for 60W, and then throws a red towel over the shade to "set the mood"

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Or to make the bird stop squawking.