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Thread: New Surefire EB1 Clicky (Beamshots added) - Review and runtime results

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    880arm's Avatar
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    Default Surefire EB1 Backup Review

    The new EB1 from Surefire has been a hot topic for debate as its release has neared. Admittedly, when I saw the first runtime chart graciously shared by Robin24k I was disappointed in the apparent lack of (fairly) level output I was accustomed to with the venerable E1B. However, regardless of what I thought then, it was a forgone conclusion that I would be buying one of the EB1's just as soon as I could get my hands on it.

    Well, today is the day and the light has arrived. It comes packed in the same red outer retail box and inner black box that we have become accustomed to with Surefire lights. There are no surprises in the box, just a light (with battery installed), the warranty registration card, and a Surefire decal. Also, in case you were uncertain as to how the battery should be replaced, there is a very brief instruction manual . All in all, just what you would expect to find.

    The packaging clearly identifies which type of switch is provided, as well as the rated outputs of 200 lumens on high (1.3 hours) and 5 lumens on low (40 hours). The packaging also indicates the other colors that are (or will be) available - silver and tan - apparently with all of them being mil-spec anodized.



    The light itself measures in at 4.5" in length which is about 1/2" longer than the E1B it replaces. This extra length comes from both the head and tail which are each slightly longer than their counterparts on the E1B. As already noted in other reviews, the EB1 is compatible with other E-series heads but the tailcaps are not interchangeable.




    The head on the EB1 is distinctive, not just for its increased length, but also for its larger diameter, which at approximately 1 1/8" is slightly wider than the E1B head at its widest point. The head is essentially the same diameter from front to back and no longer has the contours found on the older E1B. Also, in a departure from previous E-series LED's a spring is used for the positive contact on the head.

    The tailcap on the clicky version has a large shroud which would seem to be effective at preventing accidental activation. I have large thumbs but I have no trouble reaching or activating the switch. The inside of the switch looks like a miniature version of the UB3T/M3LT tailcap and is notable due to its increased depth and much longer spring. I suspect this extra depth was added to accommodate the momentary tactical version of the switch. The light will tail stand, albeit somewhat wobbly, but it does not appear this was a design consideration. The button protrudes maybe 1/16" beyond the shroud.

    The 2-way pocket clip is slightly longer than its counterpart on the E1B and adds a hole in the upper bend which could be used to attach a lanyard.



    The business end of the light obviously uses an optic but it is different in appearance to the current generation E1B, LX2, or E2DL. It is difficult to tell from the photo but it almost appears as if the back side of the optic is coated with a reflective material. Also, the "bubble" over the emitter appears to be considerably smaller. (I will attempt to get a better photo later).



    (Note: the three bright spots unevenly spaced around the optic are reflections from another light I was using in an attempt to illuminate the optic)

    My initial impressions of the beam are as expected for a TIR equipped light. It has a very bright spot, small amount of spill, and some rings around the outer portions of the beam. There may be some degree of green tint to the beam but at full brightness it has not been overwhelming to me in the small amount of time I used it so far. The beam becomes very noticeably green on low. I will have a better idea of what this is like in the real world after some more use.

    The output of the light, on fresh batteries, seems comparable to the LX2 and E2DL and this baby throws when compared to other TIR Surefires. I took some quick and dirty 5m lux readings which were then converted to the following 1m readings (readings taken after lights had been on for 30 seconds):

    EB1 10,979
    E2DL 8,746
    LX2 #1 (A24309) 8,369
    LX2 #2 (A43439) 7,992
    L1 Lumamax (on AW16340) 7,373
    L1 Lumamax 4,440
    E1B (110 lumen) 4,279











    The runtime charts are provided for reference and entertainment value only and can be used to prove almost any point you want to make. Hopefully the discussions in this thread will stay cordial and on topic as I would really hate to have my first review LOCKED! (Thank you for your consideration of this matter)

    All tests were performed with new Surefire CR123a's from the same retail box with all batteries tested prior to use (all were within .004V of each other). A home made light box was used along with an Extech 401021 light meter and datalogging multimeter connected to my computer. The charts below show the relative outputs of a variety of Surefire TIR equipped lights with the 100% value being equal to the E1B's output after 30 seconds.

    First up, the EB1 is compared to a 110 lumen E1B and a 65 lumen (yeah right ) L1 Lumamax.



    The EB1 and E1B curves intersect right around the 50 minute mark. The EB1 then reaches its 50% point shortly thereafter at 52 minutes and then reaches the 10% mark at 86 minutes.

    The next chart compares the EB1 to some of its 2-cell cousins the LX2 (two samples) and the E2DL to see how close it comes to these 200 lumen rated lights



    If the output of the other lights is any indication, the EB1 seems to put out a solid 200 lumens initially. Of the four lights it actually had the highest output initially before settling down to a more middle of the road level for the next 10 or so minutes. One thing is for certain, compared to all the others, my old EDC LX2 (A43439) is looking like an underachiever!

    At the end of the day, this is about what I expected after seeing Robin24k's graphs. However, I know that in my usage, the light will rarely be on for more than 2 or 3 minutes at a time so I would expect more reasonable looking output levels after 30 minutes of use than what is reflected in the chart. If it gets me to an hour of real world use with good output I'm happy . . . but naturally the more time, the better.

    (Update 11/28/2012) - Per Maxbelg's request I compiled output and runtime information on the L1 when powered by an AW16340 cell. In this configuration the L1 compares very favorably, in my opinion, to the EB1 for the duration of its battery life. In this instance, the L1 ran for 40 minutes before cutting off due to the battery protection circuit kicking in.



    Looking ahead, I plan to do some more testing to reflect some type of real world use similar to what others have suggested - 5 minutes on, 5 minutes off - but that will have to wait for another day. I would also like to take some current and voltage measurements to try and figure out the stepped (?) regulation that seems to be in effect through much of the discharge curve. Some have suggested this is due to the battery being unable to keep up but the numbers show some very distinct steps which seem to indicate something else is at work. Unfortunately, my new box of Surefire CR123a's is now empty


    Outdoor Beamshots (Added 12/1/2012)

    The following beamshots were taken to give an example of the EB1's beam at a distance of 100 ft. and to compare it to a variety of well known 1 and 2 cell lights. The photos give an idea of the shape and size of each light's hotspot but the spill was considerably more spill than what is shown.

    Surefire EB1 on high


    Surefire E1B on high


    Surefire L1 Lumamax on high (using 1xCR123a)


    Surefire L1 Lumamax on high (using 1x AW 16340)


    Surefire LX2 Lumamax on high


    Quark 123 R5 on max


    Surefire G2X Tactical


    JetBeam RRT-0 S2 on high (using 1x AW 16340)


    Surefire Fury on high


    Cheapo "300 lumen" aspheric that was on sale for $5



    Overall I'm still excited about the light and can't wait to use it for something other than lighting up a box. I took a quick walk around outside with the EB1 and E2DL and quite honestly couldn't tell any difference between the two in performance. The EB1 puts out an intense beam and it definitely has some reach. I can't wait to try it out at work and in the "real world."

    I'm still trying to get used to the "feel" of the light as it is somewhat different than my old E1B. So far it doesn't feel as natural in my hand as the E1B but part of that is a matter of getting used to a new light. I shall provide updates after I have used the light for a few days.
    Last edited by 880arm; 05-18-2014 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Add runtime charts and beamshots

  2. #2
    Flashaholic Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Great review.
    And good to have some lux readings from different surefire lights to compare.


    Can I ask how do you convert 5m lux readings to 1m readings ?


    BTW
    I think the first lux reading is from EB1 ( you have written E1B )

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Can you lego the components with E-series lights. Would be nice to run the head on an E2D/E2DL body using 1x17670.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Can I ask how do you convert 5m lux readings to 1m readings ?
    Surface light intensity (lux) x distance^2 = peak beam intensity (cd)

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin24k View Post
    Surface light intensity (lux) x distance^2 = peak beam intensity (cd)
    What does the up pointing arrow mean ( just before 2 ) ?

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Can I ask how do you convert 5m lux readings to 1m readings ?
    Do you multiply by 25 perhaps?

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    Flashaholic* Robin24k's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    What does the up pointing arrow mean ( just before 2 ) ?
    Exponent. Distance^2 = distance * distance.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Robin24K's formula works for a point source but I would suggest that things might not be as simple for the far field light distribution of a somewhat collimated source like the EB1. If the light were ideally collimated, i.e. plane waves, the intensity would be the same at one meter and five meters, right?

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Vox Clamatis in Deserto; 11-27-2012 at 09:08 PM.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin24k View Post
    Exponent. Distance^2 = distance * distance.
    Okay , think I got it :-)


    So for 5 meter readings , I shall multiply the lux reading by 25 , and then I have candela.

    Right ?

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    Flashaholic* Robin24k's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Yes, but he already converted them to candela so you do not need to multiply them anymore. Lux at 1 meter would be equal to candela (although it would not be a good idea to use these values, as 1 meter is usually not enough distance for beams to fully focus).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox Clamatis in Deserto View Post
    Robin24K's formula works for a point source but I would suggest that things might not be as simple for the far field light distribution of a somewhat collimated source like the EB1. If the light were ideally collimated, i.e. plane waves, the intensity would be the same at one meter and five meters, right?

    Any thoughts?
    I don't know the physics behind it (my background is electrical engineering), but that's the formula for peak beam intensity from the ANSI FL1 Standard...

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Thank you Robin. I will of course not multiply the numbers anymore.


    880arm.

    Sorry for stealing your thread like that.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Great review.
    And good to have some lux readings from different surefire lights to compare.


    Can I ask how do you convert 5m lux readings to 1m readings ?


    BTW
    I think the first lux reading is from EB1 ( you have written E1B )
    As the others suggested, I multiplied by 25. Also thanks for pointing out my typo. I wish I had a nickle for every time I typed E1B when I meant EB1.

    That's what happens when I stay up past my bedtime

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by seattlite View Post
    Can you lego the components with E-series lights. Would be nice to run the head on an E2D/E2DL body using 1x17670.
    You can lego the head onto any other E-series compatible light but I don't think the 17670 will work for you. See Vox's informative post in the other thread.

  14. #14

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Thanks for the review, 880arm, and for the 'entertainment only' graphs, , will be interested to see your results for the on off, modes, it seems that the light is indeed brighter for the first 45 min, but drops off quickly after that... I wonder how obvious that will be to my eyes. I will definitely get one, but I am really impressed on the L1's performance, dispite it's age it held up well and appears to have the best performance runtime wise of the three, despite the fact that it is the oldest. I am eagerly awaiting my 'new' L1, (at least I don't have to wait long for that one!) I want to see how it holds up to my e1b. Looks like the money was worth it.
    thanks again, and also to Robin24k who started it all
    Last edited by Bearlight; 11-28-2012 at 02:29 AM.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Thanks for a great review. I have decided not to get this light. I just don't like flashlights with this type of poor regulation. Your needs might differ of course and regulation might not be important for your usage, but I prefer both the E1B and my L1. I especially like my L1 6th generation on IMRs! It would be interesting to see a graph comparing the EB1 to the L1 with RCRs in terms of total output and throw.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    The highlight of this EB1 light is the nearly 11k lux, and will be one of the best throwers in the EDC class. At least, it will at turn on, and for a little while thereafter.

    While other lights do offer flatter regulation by far, this light has some things going for it, and it will perform equal or better than its E1B predecessor until the 50 minute mark.

    So, I'd say that if you typically use your EDC light for short term use, and recharge batteries before 50 minutes, it's all on the up-side vs the E1B.
    There are reasons some will really like this light, and reasons that some will hate it.
    Classic SureFire.

    I never intended to buy this light anyway, so it's of no concern to me, but I like to study the new lights coming on to the market, just for my own knowledge.
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    ......... and recharge batteries before 50 minutes.........
    I thought it was a no-no with RCR. Are you referring to LiPO4? The runtime will be less than 30 minutes then, so you'd have to recharge quite a bit more!

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ashlight/page8 POST 232

    Of course the E1B doesn't run on RCRs either, but the L1 does and runtime on mine with IMRs is 40 minutes. That's why I'd like to see the output with this setup compared to the EB1 and especially lux comparison to the L1 on RCRs. If I have similar output and throw (lux) and similar or longer rechargeable runtime, I won't "upgrade" to the EB1 from my trusty L1.
    Last edited by Maxbelg; 11-28-2012 at 06:22 AM.

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbelg View Post
    I thought it was a no-no with RCR. Are you referring to LiPO4? The runtime will be less than 30 minutes then, so you'd have to recharge quite a bit more!

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ashlight/page8 POST 232

    Of course the E1B doesn't run on RCRs either, but the L1 does and runtime on mine with IMRs is 40 minutes. That's why I'd like to see the output with this setup compared to the EB1 and especially lux comparison to the L1 on RCRs. If I have similar output and throw (lux) and similar or longer rechargeable runtime, I won't "upgrade" to the EB1 from my trusty L1.
    Well, I always use rechargeable batteries in my lights, so it is the way I think about things.
    You could substitute "replace" as the word, instead of "recharge" and get the same meaning.
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    Well, I always use rechargeable batteries in my lights, so it is the way I think about things.
    You could substitute "replace" as the word, instead of "recharge" and get the same meaning.
    Yes and replace the 50 minutes with 25 minutes if you're using rechargeable batteries. That is my point exactly as I'm also using rechargeable batteries always. My L1 runs 40 minutes regulated on IMRs and is visually a LOT brighter than my E1B and even my LX2 so that is why I want them compared. My E1B ran close to 40 minutes on LiPO4, but it wasn't as bright as the LX2 but was well regulated.

    So what I'm saying is that I'd like to see the E1B, EB1 and L1 compared on rechargeable set-ups. At this point in time I suspect that the EB1 is not an upgrade FOR ME compared to the L1 because of the RCR compatibility and output of my L1.
    Last edited by Maxbelg; 11-28-2012 at 06:42 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    How is the durability?

    Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors. Do the internal parts look robust? Tailswitch feel strong?

    Obviously to some extent we are relying on SF reputation for durability, but is the build quality look to the same standard as say the old E1B or is it more in line with the build quality of the 6PX/G2X/Fury line?

    E1B was very good in hand, not pleased that the EB1 seems to be a larger light in general.

    How does the weight compare?

    My E1B measures 68g (no battery)
    “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

  21. #21

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    The highlight of this EB1 light is the nearly 11k lux, and will be one of the best throwers in the EDC class. At least, it will at turn on, and for a little while thereafter.

    While other lights do offer flatter regulation by far, this light has some things going for it, and it will perform equal or better than its E1B predecessor until the 50 minute mark.

    So, I'd say that if you typically use your EDC light for short term use, and recharge batteries before 50 minutes, it's all on the up-side vs the E1B.
    There are reasons some will really like this light, and reasons that some will hate it.
    Classic SureFire.

    I never intended to buy this light anyway, so it's of no concern to me, but I like to study the new lights coming on to the market, just for my own knowledge.
    Could the addition of:

    1. More lux

    2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

    ... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

    E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.
    “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

  22. #22

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Great write up! Thanks!
    ....

  23. #23
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    Could the addition of:

    1. More lux

    2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

    ... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

    E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.
    Maybe they(SureFire) might be thinking that, perhaps.
    I really don't know what they are thinking.
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    How is the durability? Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors........
    From what I've seen, I'd suspect that the durability will be similar to the E1B/L1. Are there really people who buy Surefire for lumens, or do you mean throw (lux)? If you want more lumens there are a gazillion options, if you want more throw in a similar package options are limited. If I'm not looking for throw I prefer my HDS modded with a high cri Nichia 219 in this size, but for a nice throwy beam, the L1 on RCRs excels. It even has more throw than my LX2 and my M60W. If I can find a better thrower with similar runtimes on rechargeables in the same size and of similar quality, I'm interested. Therefore my initial interest in the EB1. So far I'm not convinced.
    Last edited by Maxbelg; 11-28-2012 at 07:03 AM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    Could the addition of:

    1. More lux

    2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

    ... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

    E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.
    There have been others who have commented on the apparent commonality of some sections of the EB1 and the X300 Ultra WeaponLight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    How is the durability?

    Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors. Do the internal parts look robust? Tailswitch feel strong?

    Obviously to some extent we are relying on SF reputation for durability, but is the build quality look to the same standard as say the old E1B or is it more in line with the build quality of the 6PX/G2X/Fury line?
    Here are some of my initial observations on the subject from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox Clamatis in Deserto View Post
    The fit and finish of both versions of the SF Backup are excellent as expected and the lights appear to originate from the same manufacturing process unlike, for example, a SF 6P and a SF 6PX placed next to each other. These E1B's and EB1 seem to definitely be from the old school of SF construction i.e. it appears that they can be disassembled for repair rather than tossed and replaced like the SF 6PX and the Fury.

    Whatever process SF uses to do the matte finish on the black Backups seems to work and wear well. Under bright light you can see some variation in the tint of the sections of the EB1 but it is so close that you would never notice it otherwise. It has been argued here that SF's are 'illumination tools', aesthetics don't matter to Rambo etc. but I do appreciate it when I get a good looking product for the premium price that I paid. Now, about that LED tint...
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=1#post4074045

    The runtime plots published here agree with my brief experience with the EB1. It's really bright out of the box for a while and then the output rapidly drops.

    As an added bonus, as the output declines the tint of the LED on my light automatically shifts toward that region where your eye is most sensitive (undoubtedly a brilliant design to counteract the reduction of lumens with time ). My EB1 gets greener and greener as the battery runs down.

    I do appreciate the fact that LED SF's tend to have a long tail on the output curve that will get you to the battery change.

    I realize as Quicksilver says folks buy SF for a lot of other reasons than the light output but I do think that it is a spec for discussion.

    Did SF intentionally pass on better regulation in order to meet the advertised 200 lumen mark with a less expensive LED?

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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    S
    Quote Originally Posted by Vox Clamatis in Deserto View Post
    .......As an added bonus, as the output declines the tint of the LED on my light automatically shifts toward that region where your eye is most sensitive (undoubtedly a brilliant design to counteract the reduction of lumens with time ).........
    I might have to get one after all: my L1 lacks this feature and stays a boring white even on low! No seriously I almost killed myself laughing!

  27. #27

    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    880arm very nice review. We can tell you put a lot of time and effort into it. I too am going to pass on the light. I just can't get passed the poor regulation.

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* Monocrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Nice review.

    I'm just happy to see the EB1 is out there.
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    Default Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

    Drool! Thanks for the very informative review. I must pick one of these up in the near future.

  30. #30

    Default Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

    Hello,

    I am still trying to decide between these two lights. I have read the reviews, looked at the graphs, ect. However, I am wondering what the overall actual real life experience between these two lights is (for those of you fortunate enough to have both). Is there a significant difference in throw, ect that is more noticable in the EB1? Any feedback on these two lights would be much appreciated.

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