Future 4.35 Volt batteries for more power?

Has anyone heard of the next generation of batteries with 4.35 Volts?
Apparently, the previous generation of batteries were rated at 3.6 Volts nominal [average], and 4.1 Volts max.
Nowadays, the chemistry is improved, such that the nomimal voltage is 3.7, while the maximum voltage in 4.2.
However, apparently the next generation of batteries has an improved chemistry for a 4.35 Voltage maximum?
The higher voltage is said to give more power...

They are already used in many Samsung smartphones, also they are used in laptop battery packs.
Currently, 4.35V batteries are made only by 3 companies - LG, Samsung, Sanyo. Their nominal voltage is quite higher than that of 4.2V batteries.
For example, 4.35V 3000mAh LG vs 4.2V 3100mAh Panasonic:

peterharvey73 said:

Has anyone heard of the next generation of batteries with 4.35 Volts?
Apparently, the previous generation of batteries were rated at 3.6 Volts nominal [average], and 4.1 Volts max.
Nowadays, the chemistry is improved, such that the nomimal voltage is 3.7, while the maximum voltage in 4.2.
However, apparently the next generation of batteries has an improved chemistry for a 4.35 Voltage maximum?
The higher voltage is said to give more power...

Click to expand...

The Samsung 3000mAh cells with 4.35v charge voltage I tested had some serious quality issues.

When I first got them they performed great. When I tested a couple new cells I got that had never been used, they performed terribly just after 1 year in storage. Internal resistance had increased a lot. Nominal voltage was 0.2v lower than in previous tests, and there was at least a 10% capacity loss.

So it sounds like 4.35 Volt is new technology for potentially more power, but with a few hurdles to overcome esp regarding spontaneous aging via reduced capacity and greater internal resistance build-up...

So what exactly gives the 4.35 v chemistry that extra kick?

The chemistry is different and improved to give the extra 4.35 volts.
Power = Voltage multiplied by Amperage, so as the voltage rises, the power rises too.
However, I don't know how the chemistry is different to give that extra voltage...

Yeah, well, that was exactly the question. As far as I understand, the chemistry is pretty similar, but I can't seem to find any specifics as to what contributes to the increase in maximum voltage.

peterharvey73 said:

So it sounds like 4.35 Volt is new technology for potentially more power, but with a few hurdles to overcome esp regarding spontaneous aging via reduced capacity and greater internal resistance build-up...

Click to expand...

Well in all honesty that was just with a handful of Samsung cells I tested, but I had the same problems with the 28A and 30A (4.3v and 4.35v chemistry respectivly). It could have been some bad batches.. not sure.

I've not tried the Sanyo or LG 4.35v cells, but I have tried a 4.3v Sanyo cell with no issues.

moozooh said:

So what exactly gives the 4.35 v chemistry that extra kick?

Click to expand...

The chemical composition is different than most 4.20v cells. The Samsung ICR-18650-30A is LiMn2O4 (Co,Ni)/carbon chemistry, vs the more traditional LiCoO2.

What is the maximum current for those? From the curve, it looks like they would have higher discharge current capability.

wanna know too. not much info to read about the sanyo ur18650tz. planning to buy a whole bunch of those...

jasonck08 said:

The Samsung 3000mAh cells with 4.35v charge voltage I tested had some serious quality issues.

When I first got them they performed great. When I tested a couple new cells I got that had never been used, they performed terribly just after 1 year in storage. Internal resistance had increased a lot. Nominal voltage was 0.2v lower than in previous tests, and there was at least a 10% capacity loss.

Click to expand...

Did you store them charged at room temperature? If they were somewhat fully charged and at room temperature you may have been lucky to only have a 10% capacity loss

My concern with these new higher voltages is how does that effect standby capacity loss at full charge and especially at elevated temperatures?

That said, looking at the discharge curve for the LG batteries above, these may be fantastic if kept at 80% of charge and below. They would still have lots of usable capacity and this would extend their cycle and shelf life.

Thoughts?

I just got a pair of the LGD1s and tested them out (qualitatively) by running an AMC7135 based light and compared to my Redilast 2900 and I can say that the heat output stayed at approximately the same until the battery was close to out.

Hmmm, does anyone know how these would work with a lamp like the Lumens Factory EO-4? I feel like these cells perhaps give better performance, keeping a higher average voltage throughout the discharge curve.

Since the increase is so small, will there be any significant / noticeable difference in performance / lumens?

Benchiew said:

Since the increase is so small, will there be any significant / noticeable difference in performance / lumens?

Click to expand...

This is the power source, this doesn't affect "lumens" directly ofcourse. That all depends on the LED and how it is driven.

When using a 7135 based driver and a 3.3v Vf XM-L, the you will not have any increase when the batteries are full. At half charge, the extra voltage can just keep it in regulation.
However, when using a SST-90 with a higher Vf, this is a completely different matter. The 3.7v nominal chemistries (even IMR) can't sustain a high enough voltage under load to push these leds to their limits.

I haven't heard of this new chemistry though, but I understand from this topic that this is the voltage when fully charged.

Noted. Thanks.

I would like to see those 4.35V cells "in action "(laptop, cell phone...)
A) charged to 4.35V
B) charged to 4.20V
C) compared to standard 4.20V chemisty cell

Which one will have highest capacity after 1 year use and/or 200 cycles?
Right now I have 2800mAh orange 4.30V Sanyo cells in my laptop but I charge it only up to 80% and after 1 year and 80full cycles I have ~95% of initial capacity. So far - great result

czAtlantis said:

I would like to see those 4.35V cells "in action "(laptop, cell phone...)
A) charged to 4.35V
B) charged to 4.20V
C) compared to standard 4.20V chemisty cell

Which one will have highest capacity after 1 year use and/or 200 cycles?
Right now I have 2800mAh orange 4.30V Sanyo cells in my laptop but I charge it only up to 80% and after 1 year and 80full cycles I have ~95% of initial capacity. So far - great result

Click to expand...

I would like to see that too .... see my post above. I also keep my laptop set to the 80% level unless I know its going to be a long day on the road.

Semiman

Shadowww said:

They are already used in many Samsung smartphones, also they are used in laptop battery packs.
Currently, 4.35V batteries are made only by 3 companies - LG, Samsung, Sanyo. Their nominal voltage is quite higher than that of 4.2V batteries.
For example, 4.35V 3000mAh LG vs 4.2V 3100mAh Panasonic

Click to expand...

Shadowww,
Regarding the 4.35V LG 3000mAh, I've looked at HKJ's chart and couldn't find what would be the lowest voltage these cells can safely be?
I see the tests go down to 2.8V, is that too low?

HKJ: LG 4.35V 3000mAh test

THE_dAY said:

Shadowww,
Regarding the 4.35V LG 3000mAh, I've looked at HKJ's chart and couldn't find what would be the lowest voltage these cells can safely be?
I see the tests go down to 2.8V, is that too low?

HKJ: LG 4.35V 3000mAh test

Click to expand...

The LG datasheet has 3.0 volt as lowest voltage.