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View Poll Results: Do you prefer Warm White or Neutral White?

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  • Neutral White

    277 79.37%
  • Warm White

    72 20.63%
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Thread: POLL ADDED: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

  1. #1
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    Default POLL ADDED: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    At first I was going CW all the way. Then I found out NW is much better for color rendering. I don't live in an area that has lots of rain or fog therefore can't really test out the rain/fog cutting statements.

    I always wanted to give warm white a try but when I saw the tint on my old maglite incan.; it's too yellow. I hope warm white LED is not like that...

    There are many discussions of warm vs cool or neutral vs cool. But I don't recall seeing a warm vs neutral.

    Which do you prefer?


    Thanks for voting!
    Last edited by dealgrabber2002; 12-27-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    hi thanks, excellent topic this; was just this minute thinking about all this.
    was reading that 4000K-4300k is actually better than 5000k, and upwards.
    how true really is that statement ?.

    i really like the neutral white of my PD32UE, but really, does being at 5000k make it much worse by say if this was a 4000k LED light?.
    then why would fenix make it if it really werent good for eyes?.
    i really do like the warm light too, and 4000 would be the lowest I would go.
    anything over 5000, more likely no way, now that I have found neutral.

    would like to see some shots though of the 4000k compared to higher neutrals.

    thanks lots.
    nice thread.

    taken from the site ;




    THE PROS OF 4000K LIGHT

    For a short time during the day, at noon, when the sun is the brightest, the light is about +6000k. A human eye is designed to protect itself during this time of day because of the high level of UV light. There is more than enough light to see therefore the eyes over react towards this colour of light by reducing the aperture. This is not the reaction that you want at night. To improve the response and focus time more light needs to enter the eye, not less.

    The benefit of having 4000k light is that it does not appear bright/harsh to the eyes and more light can enter. Most people will say that a cold white (+6000k) looks brighter than a warm white light and this is true. It does "appear" brighter but it is not. The result is that the eye has difficultly to focus due to the reduced amount of light entering the eye. Also the blue sensitive cones are not in the middle of theretina(macula) which makes focusing on blueish objects difficult.
    SUMMARY


    We are at a point where adding more light does not improve night cycling safety. To get a better response from our eyes we need equipment to be designed for us. It should be clear from the facts, that warmer coloured lights are preferred for night cycling above colder lights. We have selected 4000k LED based on testing over the last year and so far have had positive feed back. We believe that you will notice the improvement.

    Last edited by neutralwhite; 12-26-2012 at 10:21 AM.
    AT Viking Pro Quadtrix 9080 E21A 6500k, Jetbeam AAA 9080 E21A 5700k,
    Jetbeam AAA Nichia E17A HCRI Red Led.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    I really like neutral. I absolutely do not like warm white, and would prefer cool white to warm white (as long as the cool white isn't the purple white like on those cheap LEDs crappy flashlights have).

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    I prefer cool over them both, but having to choose I'd take neutral.
    Keep it between the ditches and the shiny side up.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vortus View Post
    I prefer cool over them both, but having to choose I'd take neutral.
    Get out ta here! I am just kidding buddy. Did you give both of them a try before coming to your conclusion?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    I prefer a cool white that is not heavily blue. I can take a little bit of blue in the beam.
    The cool white that borders on the higher end of neutral is my favorite.
    I can accept neutral tints down as far as 4500K, but that's as warm as I can stand. I actually feel that even 4500K is a little too warm for my taste, but I can tolerate it. I have one light that is 4500k, but I'm not too sure that I would buy another one that warm.
    Brawndo. It's got what plants crave!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    I personally prefer warmer tints, partly because they tend to render colors more accurately but also because I find warmer tints simply more pleasing than cooler tints which appear harsh to my eyes. I will be absolutely thrilled the day someone introduces an LED with 3200K and a CRI of 100. That's the Holy Grail of flashlights as far as I'm concerned.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    I personally prefer warmer tints, partly because they tend to render colors more accurately but also because I find warmer tints simply more pleasing than cooler tints which appear harsh to my eyes. I will be absolutely thrilled the day someone introduces an LED with 3200K and a CRI of 100. That's the Holy Grail of flashlights as far as I'm concerned.
    Doesn't warm tint makes things orange?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    hi thanks, excellent topic this; was just this minute thinking about all this.
    was reading that 4000K-4300k is actually better than 5000k, and upwards.
    how true really is that statement ?.

    i really like the neutral white of my PD32UE, but really, does being at 5000k make it much worse by say if this was a 4000k LED light?.
    then why would fenix make it if it really werent good for eyes?.
    i really do like the warm light too, and 4000 would be the lowest I would go.
    anything over 5000, more likely no way, now that I have found neutral.

    would like to see some shots though of the 4000k compared to higher neutrals.

    thanks lots.
    nice thread.

    taken from the site ;




    THE PROS OF 4000K LIGHT

    For a short time during the day, at noon, when the sun is the brightest, the light is about +6000k. A human eye is designed to protect itself during this time of day because of the high level of UV light. There is more than enough light to see therefore the eyes over react towards this colour of light by reducing the aperture. This is not the reaction that you want at night. To improve the response and focus time more light needs to enter the eye, not less.

    The benefit of having 4000k light is that it does not appear bright/harsh to the eyes and more light can enter. Most people will say that a cold white (+6000k) looks brighter than a warm white light and this is true. It does "appear" brighter but it is not. The result is that the eye has difficultly to focus due to the reduced amount of light entering the eye. Also the blue sensitive cones are not in the middle of theretina(macula) which makes focusing on blueish objects difficult.
    SUMMARY


    We are at a point where adding more light does not improve night cycling safety. To get a better response from our eyes we need equipment to be designed for us. It should be clear from the facts, that warmer coloured lights are preferred for night cycling above colder lights. We have selected 4000k LED based on testing over the last year and so far have had positive feed back. We believe that you will notice the improvement.

    Thanks for the info neutralwhite

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    hi thanks, excellent topic this; was just this minute thinking about all this.
    was reading that 4000K-4300k is actually better than 5000k, and upwards.
    how true really is that statement ?.

    i really like the neutral white of my PD32UE, but really, does being at 5000k make it much worse by say if this was a 4000k LED light?.
    then why would fenix make it if it really werent good for eyes?.
    i really do like the warm light too, and 4000 would be the lowest I would go.
    anything over 5000, more likely no way, now that I have found neutral.

    would like to see some shots though of the 4000k compared to higher neutrals.

    thanks lots.
    nice thread.

    taken from the site ;




    THE PROS OF 4000K LIGHT

    For a short time during the day, at noon, when the sun is the brightest, the light is about +6000k. A human eye is designed to protect itself during this time of day because of the high level of UV light. There is more than enough light to see therefore the eyes over react towards this colour of light by reducing the aperture. This is not the reaction that you want at night. To improve the response and focus time more light needs to enter the eye, not less.

    The benefit of having 4000k light is that it does not appear bright/harsh to the eyes and more light can enter. Most people will say that a cold white (+6000k) looks brighter than a warm white light and this is true. It does "appear" brighter but it is not. The result is that the eye has difficultly to focus due to the reduced amount of light entering the eye. Also the blue sensitive cones are not in the middle of theretina(macula) which makes focusing on blueish objects difficult.
    SUMMARY


    We are at a point where adding more light does not improve night cycling safety. To get a better response from our eyes we need equipment to be designed for us. It should be clear from the facts, that warmer coloured lights are preferred for night cycling above colder lights. We have selected 4000k LED based on testing over the last year and so far have had positive feed back. We believe that you will notice the improvement.

    Actually, the quote from whatever site that was, is mostly FALSE.


    The "warm" LEDS actually ARE less bright than the cool ones of the same type and drive level, and in fact usually are significantly dimmer. Sometimes up to 40% dimmer. And this is because the LED manufacturer has to put coatings of phosphors on the emitting surface of the LED to give it this "warm" coloring, and that inherently blocks some of the light that comes out of the LED. This is widely known.

    So, it actually doesn't have anything to do with any of that hocus pocus that was written on that site.
    The warm LEDs are just dimmer than the cool ones, and that's all there is to it.
    Last edited by twl; 12-26-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by dealgrabber2002 View Post
    Doesn't warm tint makes things orange?
    Not really. Do incandescent bulbs around your home make things look orange?

  12. #12
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    Buttrock Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    Actually, the quote from whatever site that was is entirely FALSE.


    The "warm" LEDS actually ARE less bright than the cool ones of the same type and drive level, and in fact usually are significantly dimmer. Sometimes up to 40% dimmer. And this is because the LED manufacturer has to put coatings of phosphors on the emitting surface of the LED to give it this "warm" coloring, and that inherently blocks some of the light that comes out of the LED. This is widely known.

    So, it actually doesn't have anything to do with any of that hocus pocus that was written on that site.
    The warm LEDs are just dimmer than the cool ones, and that's all there is to it.
    Well, one is a general concept, and one is LED dependent.

    For example, on say a particular LED, if its white Bin was putting out ~750 L OTF, the warm bin might be putting out ~500 - 650 L...because it takes less POWER to send out bluer light. (Phosphors, etc...)

    The way you would USE that info would be to FIRST decide on the needed lux on target/lumens in what beam angle...so you have an idea of what END RESULT you're after...and then buy a light that can DO THAT regardless of the tint, etc. So if you want a yellower beam because you find it makes your cockles toasty, etc...get one that puts out what you need in that tint.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    Actually, the quote from whatever site that was is entirely FALSE.


    The "warm" LEDS actually ARE less bright than the cool ones of the same type and drive level, and in fact usually are significantly dimmer. Sometimes up to 40% dimmer. And this is because the LED manufacturer has to put coatings of phosphors on the emitting surface of the LED to give it this "warm" coloring, and that inherently blocks some of the light that comes out of the LED. This is widely known.

    So, it actually doesn't have anything to do with any of that hocus pocus that was written on that site.
    The warm LEDs are just dimmer than the cool ones, and that's all there is to it.
    I don't think you understand what the information is saying. If all other things are equal, a cool source will appear to be brighter. That is a cool white emitter at 200 lumens will appear brighter than a warm white emitter at 200 lumens.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    thanks, so is 5000k still good enough for our eyes, or is 4000-4300k better ?.
    why has like BMW LED ADAPTIVE lighting use 5500k then?. strange.

    thank you again...

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    Actually, the quote from whatever site that was, is mostly FALSE.


    The "warm" LEDS actually ARE less bright than the cool ones of the same type and drive level, and in fact usually are significantly dimmer. Sometimes up to 40% dimmer. And this is because the LED manufacturer has to put coatings of phosphors on the emitting surface of the LED to give it this "warm" coloring, and that inherently blocks some of the light that comes out of the LED. This is widely known.

    So, it actually doesn't have anything to do with any of that hocus pocus that was written on that site.
    The warm LEDs are just dimmer than the cool ones, and that's all there is to it.
    AT Viking Pro Quadtrix 9080 E21A 6500k, Jetbeam AAA 9080 E21A 5700k,
    Jetbeam AAA Nichia E17A HCRI Red Led.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    I don't think you understand what the information is saying. If all other things are equal, a cool source will appear to be brighter. That is a cool white emitter at 200 lumens will appear brighter than a warm white emitter at 200 lumens.
    I understand his contention.
    Last edited by twl; 12-26-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    thanks, so is 5000k still good enough for our eyes, or is 4000-4300k better ?.
    why has like BMW LED ADAPTIVE lighting use 5500k then?. strange.

    thank you again...
    Just to clarify...the Kelvin temperatures are not really the color of the beam and/or its color rendition per se...there are other factors, such as CRI, CCT, SPD, etc.



    So, for that one LED, in two flavors....the yellower one IS dimmer/has fewer lumens.

    For two completely different LEDs...the whiter one will LOOK brighter even if they are both pumping out the same lumens.
    Last edited by TEEJ; 12-26-2012 at 10:55 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    Not really. Do incandescent bulbs around your home make things look orange?
    yeah it does. I already know I am colorblind cus I took a colorblind test.
    Last edited by dealgrabber2002; 12-26-2012 at 01:10 PM. Reason: typo

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by dealgrabber2002 View Post
    yeah it does. I already I am colorblind cus I took a colorblind test.
    Dang, I never heard of a TEST making someone color blind.



    PS - If you are color blind...what does orange LOOK like?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    Dang, I never heard of a TEST making someone color blind.



    PS - If you are color blind...what does orange LOOK like?
    lol.. That test lets you know if you're colorblind or not.

    some colors are fine, it's mostly mix colors that throws me off..
    Last edited by dealgrabber2002; 12-26-2012 at 11:02 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by dealgrabber2002 View Post
    lol.. That test lets you know if you're colorblind or not.

    some colors are fine, it's mostly mix colors that throws me off..
    LOL

    Just joshing.

    If your (YOUR) eyes see colors a certain way...some things will simply be different for you than for others here.

    Think of it like those florescent glowing orange safety vests a hunter might wear, a other HUNTERS will see it as a glowing orange...but, the color blind deer DON'T see it as any different from the leaves you are hiding in, etc.

    The DEER says, hey...I don't see any vests...and the hunters say hey...look, a DEER!


  21. #21
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    so all this talk on that site about anything higher than 4300k is bad for our eyes.
    is that really correct?.

    can't our eyes be OK with 5000k or CW.?
    thanks.
    Last edited by neutralwhite; 12-26-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    I recently got a neutral white and found out what I've been missing all along. Warm is usually a bit too much for me, but compared to cool white I'll take it. Cool white is simply a blue joke anymore. I'll gladly take a reduction in lumens for real light.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    sorry misread

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    yes

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    As far as I'm concerned, I prefer warmer tints. But I think this is mainly related to CRI, I got lights with XP-G High CRI 85+, and love them because of their tint and color rendition. I also have Nichia 219 4500°K lights, and found them by far superior to my other NW flashlights
    Maybe it's also a bit of nostalgia from the old times of incan !

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    thanks, where could I buy these Nichia 219 lights?.
    thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium466 View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, I prefer warmer tints. But I think this is mainly related to CRI, I got lights with XP-G High CRI 85+, and love them because of their tint and color rendition. I also have Nichia 219 4500°K lights, and found them by far superior to my other NW flashlights
    Maybe it's also a bit of nostalgia from the old times of incan !
    AT Viking Pro Quadtrix 9080 E21A 6500k, Jetbeam AAA 9080 E21A 5700k,
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    thanks, where could I buy these Nichia 219 lights?.
    thanks.
    You could have Vinh make you whatever you want.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    The Nichia 219 being used by most people have a CRI of 92. That's very high CRI that gives very natural color rendition.
    It's more than just being 4500k tint. The Nichia 219 is a high CRI type of LED.
    There are other 4500K tint LEDs that are not high CRI. There is a difference.
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  29. #29
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    a difference in say the MCE LED at 4500k? what CRI is that one?.

    which one would be better?
    thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    The Nichia 219 being used by most people have a CRI of 92. That's very high CRI that gives very natural color rendition.
    It's more than just being 4500k tint. The Nichia 219 is a high CRI type of LED.
    There are other 4500K tint LEDs that are not high CRI. There is a difference.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    a difference in say the MCE LED at 4500k? what CRI is that one?.

    which one would be better?
    thanks.
    I don't know about the MCE and their CRI ratings.
    But the CRI will be listed in the specs for the LED, and there are often different CRI selections that can be bought, depending on how much CRI you want, and how much you want to pay, and whether it is available.
    Not all LEDs are available with a high CRI. Most of them are low CRI, or moderate CRI, and you have to select. If you don't specify, you likely get below 70 CRI as a standard low-cost selection.

    Neutral or warm does NOT necessarily indicate that it has high CRI. However, you will have some very warm LEDs which have high CRI, and some neutral LEDs with high CRI.
    Also, the CRI is a relative figure based on the CRI for that particular color temperature. So, if you have an XPG with a 95 CRI at 3200K color temp. it has one of the highest CRI for any LED that is at 3200K. Not necessarily better than a Nichia 219 with 92 CRI at 4500K color temp, on an absolute scale.
    So, it can get tricky.
    Last edited by twl; 12-26-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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