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Thread: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GordoJones88 View Post
    This is compliant with the ANSI/NEMA FL1 Standard specifications.
    Then the specification is written to mislead consumers IMO. A very small % will read this spec, but everyone reads Turbo / 1hr 45 minutes. And I'll bet that is why companies like Fenix and EagleTac do accumulative times. Me...I don't really care as Turbo is more occasional for me (and I own over 70 Eneloops)...but there are those that do, and some will even return their lights PO'ed over it.
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  2. #62
    Flashaholic* GordoJones88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
    Then the specification is written to mislead consumers IMO.
    No. It is impractical to pull the light out of an integrated sphere during the test to keep switching it back to Turbo mode every 3 minutes.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GordoJones88 View Post
    No. It is impractical to pull the light out of an integrated sphere during the test to keep switching it back to Turbo mode every 3 minutes.
    But it's not impractical to leave the light on for 50,000 hours to test the lifespan?
    Impractical should have nothing to do with it...it can also be easily calculated then verified in under 2 hours.
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  4. #64

    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Zebralight covers it this way "High: H1 500Lm with 750Lm turbo in the first 5 min (2hrs) or H2 200Lm (5.9hrs) / 330Lm (3hrs) / 500Lm (2.1hrs)"

    So in this case, 5 minutes of "turbo" time costs .1 hours or 6 minutes of "high" time. Pretty good rate. Compared to the Nitecore ratio of 3 min "turbo" costing 10 minutes of "high" time.

    But to add confusion, the EC25 claims a 1:30 hour "turbo" run time. And a 2 hour "high" run time (@540 lum). So using this theory, 3 minutes of turbo costs 1/2 hour of high run time...does not make sense....

  5. #65

    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
    But it's not impractical to leave the light on for 50,000 hours to test the lifespan?
    Impractical should have nothing to do with it...it can also be easily calculated then verified in under 2 hours.
    Should simply be done measuring the current draw on turbo...simple math...

  6. #66
    Enlightened windsurf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
    I disagree...certainly NOT how Fenix does it. Right from the LD41 U2 manual...

    http://www.fenixtactical.com/manuals...ser-manual.pdf
    *Please note that the LD41 will automatically enter into the High brightness level from the Turbobrightness level after a 30-minute working time with the security setting. So the runtime of the Turbo brightness level is the accumulated time.
    I'm still confused about this "accumulated" time. Is this Fenix's way of saying the total turbo time shown (2hr 10min) includes the 30 minutes of turbo and the remainder (100 min) on high?

    Or did they force turbo 4-5 times (with breaks or consecutively) and add those times up? If consecutively, it wouldn't be practical for the EA4 due to the high wattage (~10 watts) vs the LD41 (~4.0-5.5 watts).

    There's no way I can correlate Fenix's runtimes if they are using 4x 2500mAH NiMH cells in series. Only by using Cree's current tables with LED output lumens vs ANSI (not allowing for any optic loss), do some of the shown runtimes then come close to calculated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badbeams3 View Post
    Should simply be done measuring the current draw on turbo...simple math...
    Yes, math provides the theoretical values (as I posted one owner's current drain for each EA4 level), but the ANSI/NEMA FL1 spec does not allow theorectical.

    Could Nitecore have been completely transparent in the runtime table? Of course. In addition to the step down note under the Turbo Mode paragraph, put another note under the runtime chart. Such as: Turbo runtime is the sum of turbo plus high after auto step down from turbo.


  7. #67
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf View Post
    I'm still confused about this "accumulated" time. Is this Fenix's way of saying the total turbo time shown (2hr 10min) includes the 30 minutes of turbo and the remainder (100 min) on high?
    No, the accumulative time would be adding up the total time on turbo by resetting when needed (total accumulative turbo only time). 2hr and 10 min. on a 4 cell @520 lumens is pretty close to the 2hr @550 on the EA4.
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  8. #68
    Flashaholic* GordoJones88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    It was only just a few years ago there was no global scientific standard by which to measure the output of lights. The adoption of the ANSI FL1 standard was pretty quick and universal. Being a new standard, there has to be flexibility built in to allow for a wide variation of different lights. While most of the new lights we like are current regulated for constant brightness, lots of lights are not. There is no presupposition in the FL1 standard that a light has to be regulated or that the FL1 standard only applies to regulated lights. It allows for the output of a light to be measured after activation and then the runtime is calculated until it is down to 10% of it's initial output. So a light starts out at 100%, then an 1 hour later it is down to 50%, then 2 hours later it is down to 10%. The light manufacturer states the initial output and the length of time until the light reached 10% of it's initial output. There should be no misunderstanding that the initial output was sustained for any length of time. Though the FL1 standard allows for the runtime to be measured down to 10%, Selfbuilt estimates it down to 50% for reasons one should read listed on his webpage.


    Last edited by GordoJones88; 01-22-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #69
    Flashaholic* CarpentryHero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Just ordered an Ea4 a few days ago and now there's an EA8 in the works
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...updated-Olight
    I'm glad I found CPF, I was beginning to think I was strange
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    Thanks CPF, thanks Think2x

  10. #70
    Flashaholic* GordoJones88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
    No, the accumulative time would be adding up the total time on turbo by resetting when needed (total accumulative turbo only time). 2hr and 10 min. on a 4 cell @520 lumens is pretty close to the 2hr @550 on the EA4.
    That is a good observation. Since by definition, Turbo Boost is a burst of temporary extreme output, taking the High Mode as the real cumulative runtime total of current regulation of constant brightness is a good approximation of what to expect from a light. Even so, when looking at the runtime charts of Selfbuilt, it is clear that Turbo Mode is not regulated until the step down to High Mode kicks in. Note that the chart uses Max mode as some lights do not have Turbo Boost and start in a current regulated High Mode. Since the Fenix LD41 lists Turbo Mode with 520 lumens output for 2 hours, it is reasonable to expect that it is not current regulated. Indeed nowhere in any of the LD41 literature does it suggest the light is current regulated for constant brightness in any of the modes. By ANSI FL1 standards, the light starts at 520 lumen Turbo and then the runtime of consecutive Turbo until it reaches 10% of the initial output. I suspect the LD41 Turbo output graph may look something like the grey Thrunite Scorpion graph. However, the EA4 High Mode is current regulated for constant brightness at 550 lumens for 2 hours.


    Last edited by GordoJones88; 01-22-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GordoJones88 View Post
    Eagletac is by far my favorite light manufacturer. Is there somewhere at the bottom of the technical specifications that say it is an aggregated run time of continuous Turbo output. I see the "Turbo mode offers 20% more output for the first 200 seconds". Using napkin calculations, the math would support an accumulated run time of Turbo output.

    550 lumens for 90 minutes = ~50,000 lumen*minutes
    370 lumens for 144 minutes= ~53,000 lumen*minutes

    However, Selfbuilt got 87 minutes of Turbo output with the 200 second Turbo step down included. So, it's still not really clear.
    I know its a napkin calculation, but I don't think lumen*minutes is a meaningful metric. You need to take the current draw into account which is obviously not linear at higher outputs. Selfbuilt's empirical result would seem to imply that ET is using the exact same method Nitecore uses.

  12. #72
    Enlightened windsurf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Listing runtimes with or without stepdown is still confusing. Eagletac example http://www.eagletac.com/html/sx25a6/specs.html has a lumen range for the highest level. Initially looked like the turboboost to turbo stepdown, but more likely U2 vs T6.

    Debate still rages about whether runtimes are misleading when stepdown is not explicitly noted in the time panel.
    Last edited by windsurf; 01-23-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    What is recommended with this light? NiMH or lithium (both rechargeable)???

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Question for any Nitecore EA4 owners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7hns View Post
    What is recommended with this light? NiMH or lithium (both rechargeable)???
    Just use nimh cells...aka rechargeable AA.
    Lithium Aa are fine.
    Lithium ion AA will kill your light.
    Alkaleaks are also fine.
    Just use nimh rechargables.

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