koala
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi cpfers,
Seeing a lot of interest in rechargeable Lithium Ion going in cpf, I've decided to write up faq/infomation thread on the characteristic, usage and danger. I hope this thread will be useful and protect members so no one will be making news on the papers.
This post will focus on the safety of you and your rechargeable Lithium Ion cells. If you are new and interested in using rechargeable Lithium Ion technology please do have a read. If you are knowledgeable and find some error in my post, please correct my mistake. Please suggest some, I will continue to maintain. Below FAQ is based on a Li-Ion cell without any protection circuit.
Li-Ion Characteristic
=====================
Voltage per cell – High 4.2v : Low 3.6v
Life Cycle – 200 to 500 depending on usage
Shelf Life – 3 to 5 years
Type - Available in all sorts of sizes
Power – High power to weight ratio
Li-Ion – Lithium Ion
NiCd – Nickel Cadmium
NiMh – Nickel Metal Hydride
Li-Ion Charging
=================
i) Can I charge my Lithium Ion batteries with a NiCd or NiMh charger?
No, NiCd/Mh charger is not compatible with the charging characteristic of Li-Ion. Do not wire up your NiCd/Mh charger to charge Li-Ion it will not work. Please use a charger designed for rechargeable Li-Ion.
ii) My Li-Ion cell does not warm up during charging why is that?
Unlike NiCd/Mh, most Li-Ion will take a charge of 1C happily and will be cool through the charging process. Some Li-Ion are non standard and can only accept slow charging current please check with the manufacturer.
iii) My grandpa said batteries should be discharged completely before recharging if not they will lose their memory. Is it true?
Yes your grandpa is right. Memory lost exists in NiCd technology. Some manufacturer also claims that memory exists in NiMh. These cells are designed for complete cycle (discharge and charge) to work properly.
Li-Ion is NOT subjected to memory lost. So you can recharge it whenever you like.
iv) I like to have my Li-Ion cell full capacity at all times. I want to have a fully charged cell when I need. Can I leave the cell in the charger to maintain the charge?
Li-Ion does not like to be overcharged. If you have an intelligent charger it will be fine. Overcharging is dangerous for you and your cell. Li-Ion has good low self discharge so you won't find yourself picking up a half discharged cell.
v) My Li-Ion cell(s) fits nicely in to my rechargeable surefire, it's brighter than my neighbor's HID. Can I also recharge the Li-Ion cell with the surefire charger?
Current surefire rechargeable flashlights charger is not compatible with Li-Ion. So do not try to recharge with a surefire charger. However, it may change in the future.
First of all, you need to make sure that the battery chemistry is correct and matches your Li-Ion cell(s). Secondly, identify the voltage of the battery pack. If all matches, you should be safe.
vi) I manage to find some Li-Ion cells from a laptop battery, are they useful?
Start with some simple diagnostic. Separate the cells and check the voltage of each cell. If the cell measures some voltage above 0.1 volts you are in luck. Li-Ion cell below 3.0 volts requires a slow charge. Apply a small current of 0.01C until the cell voltage reaches 3.0 volts. Then a charge current of 1.0C can be applied. Some Li-Ion are non standard and can only accept slow charging current please check with the manufacturer.
vii) I keep reading 1.0C? 0.01C? What is it?
C = Capacity of a given cell.
C is used as a measurement of charge and discharge current to the battery capacity.
If a cell has a mAh rating of 2100 then C equals to 2100.
e.g. Sanyo NiMH 2100mAh
----------------------------------
1.0C = 2100mAh x 1.0C
= 2100ma
0.01C = 2100mAh x 0.01C
= 21ma
Li-Ion Usage
============
i) Can I use rechargeable Li-Ion instead of CR123A Lithium cells?
Depending on the equipment you have. Li-Ion has a voltage of 3.6 volts per cell. CR123A Lithium and other non-rechargeable Lithium batteries are available in 1.5volts and 3.0 volts. The electronics in your equipment may or may not malfunction if it does not have voltage toleration. Check with the manufacturer.
ii) If a Li-Ion is 3.6v per cell, can I use it as a replacement of 3xAA 3.6v NiCd/Mh(1.2v per cell)?
Yes, in terms of voltage it is fine. However, you should not over discharge Li-Ion. Safe discharge voltage of Li-Ion is 3.2 volts. Do not try to discharge the cell to 3.0 volts. It is not safe as the voltage drops rapidly as the cell depletes.
iii) I acquired some used Li-Ion cells from laptop battery packs. I've used them for sometime but they are leaking liquid. What should I do?
Even though they are old, the chemical from the battery can be quite reactive. Clean up with dry paper towel. It's also a time to bin the cell.
iv) The Li-Ion cells from the laptop battery have shallow tab/nipple. How can I use it?
Some members have success with magnets in order to raise the tabs. *** Need mode info ***
v) I love to throw my lights on the floor to demonstrate the tough construction of my lights. Will the battery survive the impact?
If your light is strong to survive the impact, then the battery should also survive. Cell manufacturer are forced to put more density in to a smaller size. This means Li-Ion cells have thin walls. They can be crushed in an impact.
Some battery manufactures warn users not to disassemble batteries. Lithium is a dangerous chemical, it reacts violently in water. The chemical in your Li-Ion is not quite the same as bare Lithium but it should be treated with respect. If the cell leaks, please bin it appropriately. Most countries support battery recycling facilities please check with your town council.
vi) I like to short circuit cells to watch sparks flying in my dark closet. I heard that Li-Ion has superior power. I want more sparks. Can I play with them?
If you read warning on any of the batteries that you have, you should see 'Do Not Short Circuit'.
vii) My Li-Ion just exploded and killed my dog. What can I do?
Either you are not doing this correctly or you are having a bad luck. It's your responsibility for the risk of use.
Li-Ion Storage
==============
i) Some people keep cells in fridge to prolong life. Should I do that?
If you wish to store your Li-Ion cells, you can put them in to the fridge but make sure it is dry. Humidity will cause harm.
ii) I found a source of cheap Li-Ion cells, I want to buy a whole lot and bury them in my underground cellar.
The chemical in Li-Ion cells starts to degrade once it leaves the factory. Buy appropriate amount so you can always get fresh cells when you run out. Share the source with other cpf members. That's what cpf for.
iii) Is it safe to leave Li-Ion in my car?
This question is like " Is it safe to leave my 8 months old baby in the car? " You get the idea...
Depending on the cabin max temperature of your car. It can reach 80c in some parts of this world. Some laptops have high operating temperature that kills the Li-Ion cells quickly.
Li-Ion batteries will probably survive very low temperature.
Finally, I am not responsible for your use of Li-Ion and also the correctness of the information here. Treat your Li-Ion with respect as though they are like explosive material.
Vince.
Seeing a lot of interest in rechargeable Lithium Ion going in cpf, I've decided to write up faq/infomation thread on the characteristic, usage and danger. I hope this thread will be useful and protect members so no one will be making news on the papers.
This post will focus on the safety of you and your rechargeable Lithium Ion cells. If you are new and interested in using rechargeable Lithium Ion technology please do have a read. If you are knowledgeable and find some error in my post, please correct my mistake. Please suggest some, I will continue to maintain. Below FAQ is based on a Li-Ion cell without any protection circuit.
Li-Ion Characteristic
=====================
Voltage per cell – High 4.2v : Low 3.6v
Life Cycle – 200 to 500 depending on usage
Shelf Life – 3 to 5 years
Type - Available in all sorts of sizes
Power – High power to weight ratio
Li-Ion – Lithium Ion
NiCd – Nickel Cadmium
NiMh – Nickel Metal Hydride
Li-Ion Charging
=================
i) Can I charge my Lithium Ion batteries with a NiCd or NiMh charger?
No, NiCd/Mh charger is not compatible with the charging characteristic of Li-Ion. Do not wire up your NiCd/Mh charger to charge Li-Ion it will not work. Please use a charger designed for rechargeable Li-Ion.
ii) My Li-Ion cell does not warm up during charging why is that?
Unlike NiCd/Mh, most Li-Ion will take a charge of 1C happily and will be cool through the charging process. Some Li-Ion are non standard and can only accept slow charging current please check with the manufacturer.
iii) My grandpa said batteries should be discharged completely before recharging if not they will lose their memory. Is it true?
Yes your grandpa is right. Memory lost exists in NiCd technology. Some manufacturer also claims that memory exists in NiMh. These cells are designed for complete cycle (discharge and charge) to work properly.
Li-Ion is NOT subjected to memory lost. So you can recharge it whenever you like.
iv) I like to have my Li-Ion cell full capacity at all times. I want to have a fully charged cell when I need. Can I leave the cell in the charger to maintain the charge?
Li-Ion does not like to be overcharged. If you have an intelligent charger it will be fine. Overcharging is dangerous for you and your cell. Li-Ion has good low self discharge so you won't find yourself picking up a half discharged cell.
v) My Li-Ion cell(s) fits nicely in to my rechargeable surefire, it's brighter than my neighbor's HID. Can I also recharge the Li-Ion cell with the surefire charger?
Current surefire rechargeable flashlights charger is not compatible with Li-Ion. So do not try to recharge with a surefire charger. However, it may change in the future.
First of all, you need to make sure that the battery chemistry is correct and matches your Li-Ion cell(s). Secondly, identify the voltage of the battery pack. If all matches, you should be safe.
vi) I manage to find some Li-Ion cells from a laptop battery, are they useful?
Start with some simple diagnostic. Separate the cells and check the voltage of each cell. If the cell measures some voltage above 0.1 volts you are in luck. Li-Ion cell below 3.0 volts requires a slow charge. Apply a small current of 0.01C until the cell voltage reaches 3.0 volts. Then a charge current of 1.0C can be applied. Some Li-Ion are non standard and can only accept slow charging current please check with the manufacturer.
vii) I keep reading 1.0C? 0.01C? What is it?
C = Capacity of a given cell.
C is used as a measurement of charge and discharge current to the battery capacity.
If a cell has a mAh rating of 2100 then C equals to 2100.
e.g. Sanyo NiMH 2100mAh
----------------------------------
1.0C = 2100mAh x 1.0C
= 2100ma
0.01C = 2100mAh x 0.01C
= 21ma
Li-Ion Usage
============
i) Can I use rechargeable Li-Ion instead of CR123A Lithium cells?
Depending on the equipment you have. Li-Ion has a voltage of 3.6 volts per cell. CR123A Lithium and other non-rechargeable Lithium batteries are available in 1.5volts and 3.0 volts. The electronics in your equipment may or may not malfunction if it does not have voltage toleration. Check with the manufacturer.
ii) If a Li-Ion is 3.6v per cell, can I use it as a replacement of 3xAA 3.6v NiCd/Mh(1.2v per cell)?
Yes, in terms of voltage it is fine. However, you should not over discharge Li-Ion. Safe discharge voltage of Li-Ion is 3.2 volts. Do not try to discharge the cell to 3.0 volts. It is not safe as the voltage drops rapidly as the cell depletes.
iii) I acquired some used Li-Ion cells from laptop battery packs. I've used them for sometime but they are leaking liquid. What should I do?
Even though they are old, the chemical from the battery can be quite reactive. Clean up with dry paper towel. It's also a time to bin the cell.
iv) The Li-Ion cells from the laptop battery have shallow tab/nipple. How can I use it?
Some members have success with magnets in order to raise the tabs. *** Need mode info ***
v) I love to throw my lights on the floor to demonstrate the tough construction of my lights. Will the battery survive the impact?
If your light is strong to survive the impact, then the battery should also survive. Cell manufacturer are forced to put more density in to a smaller size. This means Li-Ion cells have thin walls. They can be crushed in an impact.
Some battery manufactures warn users not to disassemble batteries. Lithium is a dangerous chemical, it reacts violently in water. The chemical in your Li-Ion is not quite the same as bare Lithium but it should be treated with respect. If the cell leaks, please bin it appropriately. Most countries support battery recycling facilities please check with your town council.
vi) I like to short circuit cells to watch sparks flying in my dark closet. I heard that Li-Ion has superior power. I want more sparks. Can I play with them?
If you read warning on any of the batteries that you have, you should see 'Do Not Short Circuit'.
vii) My Li-Ion just exploded and killed my dog. What can I do?
Either you are not doing this correctly or you are having a bad luck. It's your responsibility for the risk of use.
Li-Ion Storage
==============
i) Some people keep cells in fridge to prolong life. Should I do that?
If you wish to store your Li-Ion cells, you can put them in to the fridge but make sure it is dry. Humidity will cause harm.
ii) I found a source of cheap Li-Ion cells, I want to buy a whole lot and bury them in my underground cellar.
The chemical in Li-Ion cells starts to degrade once it leaves the factory. Buy appropriate amount so you can always get fresh cells when you run out. Share the source with other cpf members. That's what cpf for.
iii) Is it safe to leave Li-Ion in my car?
This question is like " Is it safe to leave my 8 months old baby in the car? " You get the idea...
Depending on the cabin max temperature of your car. It can reach 80c in some parts of this world. Some laptops have high operating temperature that kills the Li-Ion cells quickly.
Li-Ion batteries will probably survive very low temperature.
Finally, I am not responsible for your use of Li-Ion and also the correctness of the information here. Treat your Li-Ion with respect as though they are like explosive material.
Vince.