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Thread: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

  1. #31

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    If you pay close attention, the Cibie Z-beam lens is actually almost completely different from the non-Z-beam Cibie lens. It has to be; the optical concept is very different. But it's unfortunately a moot point; Z-beams are sadly discontinued (avoid the "replica" ones, which are trash).

    The Marchal Amplilux and its same-concept competitors from Cibie, Carello, Hella, and Bosch, with two bulbs and two reflectors behind a common lens, were the only way to have halogen low and high beam in a single headlamp -- the H1/H2/H3 came out in the early-mid '60s, but there was no 2-filament halogen bulb until the H4 came out in the early '70s. The Amplilux low beam was pretty good, but the high beam wasn't so great because of the small reflector (which nevertheless could be aim-adjusted independently of the low beam, making it a popular unit in some kinds of motorsport). The Cibie "Biode" had the opposite issue: a decent high beam but a poor low beam. Anyhow, this is moot too because all of these are discontinued.

    The Koito H4 is available as Toyota 90981-01035 (Yes, the catalog and the box say "sealed beam" -- no, the lamp inside the box is not a sealed beam unit, it's a replaceable-bulb H4) or Nissan 26705 C9901.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by irsa76 View Post
    Not the exact car I was looking for but it does show what you can do with a Z. A guy I know runs 7" Hella H4 with Hella compact HID drivinglights in the grill. Not an ideal mounting position but they work fairly well, would be better if he went 1 spot and 1 spread/cornering light though.
    I've seen a few Z's that run in rally that pack lights like that. If I were running in a SCORE race, yep I'd mount lights anywhere and everywhere on my Z. But it is mostly street with some trackdays.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
    Don't write off the JW Speaker 8700s so quickly. The long-term tests keep nudging them up over all the others in terms of overall satisfaction from my guinea pigs in the field.
    The camera isn't as kind to them as the subjective observations...
    I have one volunteer that has two Jeep XJs using the 5x7 variants of the JWS and Trucklite LED lights and he's loving the Speakers.

    But the science fiction look of them is love/hate.

    You can get a decent price on them from Discount Fleet Supply if you mention that you heard about them on a web forum and use the "Life Is Good" code words...
    I will take your word for the 8700. Do they still seel the 8700 non Evolution? I'll have to check out that code, thanks for the suggestion!

  4. #34

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Wow, that Z rally car is some light-packin' machine. I'm not sure I'd be willing to cut away my bumper and block most of my radiator inlet area on a street car, but it is impressive. Would compact driving lights atop the bumper look totally weird on a street 240Z?
    I've never seen driving lights atop the bumper, but I've seen a few fog lights mounted below the bumper. When air dams are equipped, I've seen them mounted in the brake duct. I'm pretty sure I don't want to mount any other lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Since we're doing flashbacks, I seem to recall that an old racing trick with cars that had 7" lights was to run Marchal Amplilux with high beam elevation set to coincide with low, both beams on simultaneously and the brightest bulbs they could stuff in there.

    I still have a set of New Old Stock Amplilux (well, New Stock when I bought them in the early 80's). One of the factory boxes has disappeared in the course of a divorce and two or three moves, but they're still with me and still new. I did put bulbs into one and light it up in my basement, just to see the beams. Interesting idea for the time. Don't know what I'd do with them now. But fascinating bit of history.
    That's an interesting trick. Would that kill bulb life?

  5. #35

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by svMike View Post
    I will take your word for the 8700. Do they still seel the 8700 non Evolution? I'll have to check out that code, thanks for the suggestion!
    Not sure ---- and you'd want to check the fitment before plunking down cash.
    The older 8700 was better -- glass lens, little fan to pump heat off the heatsink to the lens to prevent ice/snow build-up. But it was fatter in back and caused fitment issues.
    The Evo is much smaller and lighter ----- and the light output is about the same. I think it might even be better in the Evo...

    I'll ping John at JWS and see if he knows about the older model.
    Last edited by Hilldweller; 02-21-2013 at 10:23 AM.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    If you pay close attention, the Cibie Z-beam lens is actually almost completely different from the non-Z-beam Cibie lens. It has to be; the optical concept is very different. But it's unfortunately a moot point; Z-beams are sadly discontinued (avoid the "replica" ones, which are trash).

    The Marchal Amplilux and its same-concept competitors from Cibie, Carello, Hella, and Bosch, with two bulbs and two reflectors behind a common lens, were the only way to have halogen low and high beam in a single headlamp -- the H1/H2/H3 came out in the early-mid '60s, but there was no 2-filament halogen bulb until the H4 came out in the early '70s. The Amplilux low beam was pretty good, but the high beam wasn't so great because of the small reflector (which nevertheless could be aim-adjusted independently of the low beam, making it a popular unit in some kinds of motorsport). The Cibie "Biode" had the opposite issue: a decent high beam but a poor low beam. Anyhow, this is moot too because all of these are discontinued.

    The Koito H4 is available as Toyota 90981-01035 (Yes, the catalog and the box say "sealed beam" -- no, the lamp inside the box is not a sealed beam unit, it's a replaceable-bulb H4) or Nissan 26705 C9901.
    That is all good to know. Tucking away that part number for reference, thanks. Still firmly on the fence at this point, but I have time to noodle on it.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by svMike View Post
    That is all good to know. Tucking away that part number for reference, thanks. Still firmly on the fence at this point, but I have time to noodle on it.
    Koitos are great but it's still an H4.
    Just sayin'...

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights


    Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix
    Since we're doing flashbacks, I seem to recall that an old racing trick with cars that had 7" lights was to run Marchal Amplilux with high beam elevation set to coincide with low, both beams on simultaneously and the brightest bulbs they could stuff in there.

    I still have a set of New Old Stock Amplilux (well, New Stock when I bought them in the early 80's). One of the factory boxes has disappeared in the course of a divorce and two or three moves, but they're still with me and still new. I did put bulbs into one and light it up in my basement, just to see the beams. Interesting idea for the time. Don't know what I'd do with them now. But fascinating bit of history.
    Originally posted by svMike: That's an interesting trick. Would that kill bulb life?
    No, because the Amplilux is really two lights behind one dual purpose lens. IIRC, the bulb in the low beam reflector is H1 and the bulb in the high beam reflector is H3.
    Good low beam, "tunnel vison" high beam, independent elevation adjustment on the high reflector, which sits inside the bottom 1/3 of the main 7" lens/reflector unit that is the low beam and uses the upper 2/3 or the lens.
    There are two kinds of light - the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures. ~James Thurber

  9. #39

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
    Not sure ---- and you'd want to check the fitment before plunking down cash.
    The older 8700 was better -- glass lens, little fan to pump heat off the heatsink to the lens to prevent ice/snow build-up. But it was fatter in back and caused fitment issues.
    The Evo is much smaller and lighter.

    I'll ping John at JWS and see if he knows about the older model.
    Thanks, I appreciate that.
    I'll look for specs on the 8700. JW Speaker website only has info on the Evolution model at this point...

  10. #40

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    That's an oversimplification of the case. An HB2/9003 bulb is not necessarily better than an H4.

    The Koito lamps are still being made, but it's difficult to find them. Expect to pay about $145/ea or so. They have a bulb shield (which the Cibies lack), which means less upward stray light causing backscatter in fog, snow, or rain. There are other major-brand H4 lamps with bulb shields (Hella, Bosch) but their optics are very inefficient and their performance is poor as a result.
    I cant recall seeing a Koito with a bulb shield. They do come stock on Nissans and I think Toyotas (round lights), but never seen the shield in one.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Quote Originally Posted by lwil1962 View Post
    I cant recall seeing a Koito with a bulb shield.
    The Koito 7" round standard-fit H4 headlamp does in fact have a bulb shield -- a large one.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Still haven't heard back from JWS about the older 8700s with the glass lens.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

    Thanks for checking Hilldweller.

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