Foxfury Rook
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

  1. #1

    Default Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Hello!

    Finally I've found somewhere people will understand me and what I need some help with!

    I'm a filmmaker and it's not always convenient for me to carry a huge 2.5k HMI lamp somewhere and plug it in to light a scene.
    I'd love to sometimes be more dynamic and pack lighter with a powerful torch, now I see how bright they can be!



    BEST I'VE SEEN SO FAR:
    If you go to Amazon UK and search for
    HIGHLY TRUSTFIRE 13000 LUMENS
    that's probably the most exciting thing I've found within my price range, though I still haven't found it with batteries & charger for less than £100.



    FEATURES I'D LIKE (in priority order):

    • Less than £100 for entire kit, delivered
    • Super bright (at least 8,000 lumens?)
    • Battery lasts at least 30 mins... ideally at least 1 or 2 hours (unless spare batteries are cheap & recharge fast)
    • Varying levels of brightness would be brilliant
    • Ideally focusable (though I can use blackwrap or something to crop the light if I have to)




    Thanks so much for reading : ]

  2. #2
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Posts
    12,663

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Your biggest limitation would be runtime. Any battery operated lighting instrument will have a finite runtime, usually measured in hours. In the mean time, a fat load of factors such as heat, efficacy, and power will vary the intensity to which the light operates. You mentioned varying levels, find yourself a light that has linear dimming and not by PWM, because the camera can distinguish the on and off times of a light dimmed by PWM. Your eyes will see it as "dim" while the camera interprets it as "slow strobe." There's no way to use it for filming.
    Color balance will be your next issue, LEDs emit rather cold light. Recent technologies enables them to product high color rendition by the use of advanced phosphor fabrication techniques. However, this comes at a cost, predominantly intensity. I have yet to locate a decent LED light for photography. Closest so far is one with a triple Nichia 219 lamp assembly

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,062

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Illum View Post
    ...I have yet to locate a decent LED light for photography. Closest so far is one with a triple Nichia 219 lamp assembly
    How close will that get to 8,000 lumens?

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South Hill, VA
    Posts
    4,061

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    About 6500 lumens short. My experience with digital photography is that CCT is most critical to match. Get that right and you're golden.

    You're probably going to want a slightly custom jobby, or a.few torches. Top output ones run around 1000 lumens and most are well served by that.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    The best photography flashlights made today are the McGizmo Mule and Sundrop. These are much lower in the power you are asking for. They are also more expensive than what you are talking about. There is a thread about using these flashlights for photography thread on the McGizmo forum here. What attracted me to these expensive flashlights is that they were actually designed for use in photography and they are just about the only flashlight that has a good 1/4"-20 mounting hole. Which, of course, makes it a snap to mount on a ballhead, gaffer clips, etc. If nothing else, it can give you idea of what at lease some of us think that a photography flashlight is all about.

    The Mule is particularly useful since it is a pure flood light with no optics or reflector. A high powered mule style flashlight can be obtained by using one of the high powered Aspheric Lens flashlight Dereelight and others make these. When the aspheric lens is removed what you are left with is a mule. The Sundrop is also a very effective photography flashlights.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    A caveat/Clarification:

    Those "fill-in-the blank-FIRE" brand lights, cells, etc, are for the most part, fabrications of imagination and marketing chutzpa more than actual performance based.

    IE: 13,000 lumens might really be 700 lumens, and so forth....and might be delivered dead in the box (Zero lumens) - you never know.


    Lumens are the total output, lux is what you see though. Lux is the amount of light that bounces back yo your eyes after hitting something.


  7. #7
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Malaysia/Ship to Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    3,095

    Default Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    I like threads like this. basically what you are after with your criteria does not exist. Maybe in another 100 years it will.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,062

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    ...Lux is the amount of light that bounces back yo your eyes after hitting something.

    Really??

  9. #9

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    I'm thinking along the lines of an HID, but regardless of light source, I don't think you can get 8K lumens with a £100 budget.

  10. #10
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Posts
    12,663

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    About 6500 lumens short.
    lets not kid ourselves, OTF is probably 7300 lumens short

    HID cannot maintain a steady enough color temperature. Closest to natural intensity was a 4500K HID I had, when certain gases flow through the arc I actually see green and pink briefly. The need for the highest level of color rendition on top of a stable output is the reason why most film lights are halogen, xenon, or both. I can see LEDs being a viable photography light, film is still a bit dim.
    Last edited by Illum; 03-03-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Wales UK
    Posts
    3,450

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    I like threads like this. basically what you are after with your criteria does not exist. Maybe in another 100 years it will.
    +1 on what you said.
    Sent from my Mobile using my sticky fingers.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Thanks so much for the input guys.. good to hear your thoughts.

    Finding this on Amazon, it seems to tick all my boxes:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIGHLY%C3%82...merDiscussions

    Except that it's not focusable.

    Doesn't it just burn daylight? 55 kelvin?
    I can gel it otherwise I assume.

    I could even afford 2 sets of batteries for this, charging one while using the other..

    This wouldn't strobe either would it?

    Cheers

  13. #13

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Don't do it, you will hate yourself. Severe False Advertising.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by lukeflegg View Post
    Thanks so much for the input guys.. good to hear your thoughts.

    Finding this on Amazon, it seems to tick all my boxes:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIGHLY%C3%82...merDiscussions

    Except that it's not focusable.

    Doesn't it just burn daylight? 55 kelvin?
    I can gel it otherwise I assume.

    I could even afford 2 sets of batteries for this, charging one while using the other..

    This wouldn't strobe either would it?

    Cheers
    Are you ignoring all the replies?

    Its not relevant...no matter what they claim, they are LYING.

    Stop looking at that crap.

    One more post along those lines, and I at least, will start to assume you're a spammer.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    Are you ignoring all the replies?

    Its not relevant...no matter what they claim, they are LYING.

    Stop looking at that crap.

    One more post along those lines, and I at least, will start to assume you're a spammer.
    He might not know better...

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,150

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Jeez, you aren't kidding...unless they literally invented a brand new technology, that is just impossible. Exaggerating a little is one thing, but that is really a flat-out lie. The TM26 produces 3500 lumens with 4 18650s + 4 LEDs, and this one claims it can power 13000 from 12 LEDs and 2 or 3 18650s. Even if it could (and I think we all agree it cannot, nor anything close), the runtime would be about 45 seconds.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South Hill, VA
    Posts
    4,061

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    An XM-L can get about 750 lumen each without heroic measures, or 9000 lumen with twelve LED... At 120W. An 18650 is good for about 15W continuous. So you actually have 45W, or absolute maximum 3000-4000 lumens. Assuming they spent every cent maxing out the driver. Assuming it doesn't explode. Expect 2000 lumen. Bright, while it works. Do you trust a manufacturer who lies 650%?
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    I would have thought making something that produces 13,000 lumens for 30 minutes IS possible, but you'd have to build it yourself and (once you fit a battery pack) it wouldn't be as portable as you want and would cost more than £100.

    Calculations: If you had 21 of those XML LED's being driven at 2 Amps each, you'd have about 13,335 Lumens. But that's a bit of an idealisic calculation, it doesn't take into account losses from reflector/glass lens, and, more importantly, you'd need a hell of a lot more power than 2 18650 cells.

    For an example of what you're after output wise, have a look at the FourSevens XM18.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Closest I think he will come is a couple Skyray Kings or something along those lines and a set of batteries/charger. He's talking pounds, so that would be about $150 dollars. There is also a unknown name 85/65/40w HID kit (cncquality sells it, likely on ebay and other dealers as well) for about that much as well, claimed 8k lm but likely less. Still, prob the most he will get for that amount.
    Keep it between the ditches and the shiny side up.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Wow, lots of useful information here, thanks.
    I ended up getting a £70 (delivered) 7 x LED version of the torch I linked to (different seller who did me a deal) including charger and 2 x triple battery packs...

    Any word on colour balance? Guess I'll find out.. I've bought it now! Anyone want me to do any tests on it or report back? Sounds like I should be prepared for some misleading advertising. If it's really disgracefully over sold at least I can argue that the item didn't fit description...

    I bought a dodgy "4,500"(?) lumen HID, unbranded Vortus, I think 40w and it charged about 3 times (taking about 5hrs each time if I remember rightly) then died. The charger just seems to click.. run time was only about 30 mins anyway.. hopefully this LED one will at least be a bit more reliable..

  21. #21

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by lukeflegg View Post
    Wow, lots of useful information here, thanks.
    I ended up getting a £70 (delivered) 7 x LED version of the torch I linked to (different seller who did me a deal) including charger and 2 x triple battery packs...

    Any word on colour balance? Guess I'll find out.. I've bought it now! Anyone want me to do any tests on it or report back? Sounds like I should be prepared for some misleading advertising. If it's really disgracefully over sold at least I can argue that the item didn't fit description...

    I bought a dodgy "4,500"(?) lumen HID, unbranded Vortus, I think 40w and it charged about 3 times (taking about 5hrs each time if I remember rightly) then died. The charger just seems to click.. run time was only about 30 mins anyway.. hopefully this LED one will at least be a bit more reliable..
    LOL

    You ARE an optimist.


  22. #22
    Flashaholic* subwoofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hove, UK
    Posts
    1,698

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Take a look at this review I posted of a similar light to the one on Amazon you linked to.

    UltraFire 9T6 (with 9 x XM-L) Review (2-3x 18650 or 26650)

    This was specified by the manufacturer as 7200lm. The runtime graph gives the real performance of this light.
    Subwoofer - Objective and Honest reviews
    Latest Reviews - @Subwoofer_CPF #SubwoofersReviews and Facebook
    ”The Torch Geek”

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Malaysia/Ship to Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    3,095

    Default Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    If I were the OP, I would not be mucking around with these lights. Especially using the accompanied dodgy multiple layout batteries. Might just go poof or worse still go boom boom.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    An XM-L can get about 750 lumen each without heroic measures, or 9000 lumen with twelve LED... At 120W. An 18650 is good for about 15W continuous. So you actually have 45W, or absolute maximum 3000-4000 lumens. Assuming they spent every cent maxing out the driver. Assuming it doesn't explode. Expect 2000 lumen. Bright, while it works. Do you trust a manufacturer who lies 650%?
    Can XM-L2 get more lumens each?

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South Hill, VA
    Posts
    4,061

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFlashlight View Post
    Can XM-L2 get more lumens each?
    A bit (20% lumens, up to). I'll bet you a buck you wouldn't notice without being told which is which.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    You're probably right but i'd still put out the extra cash for the upgraded one

  27. #27
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Wales UK
    Posts
    3,450

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by lukeflegg View Post
    Wow, lots of useful information here, thanks.
    I ended up getting a £70 (delivered) 7 x LED version of the torch I linked to (different seller who did me a deal) including charger and 2 x triple battery packs...

    Any word on colour balance? Guess I'll find out.. I've bought it now! Anyone want me to do any tests on it or report back? Sounds like I should be prepared for some misleading advertising. If it's really disgracefully over sold at least I can argue that the item didn't fit description...

    I bought a dodgy "4,500"(?) lumen HID, unbranded Vortus, I think 40w and it charged about 3 times (taking about 5hrs each time if I remember rightly) then died. The charger just seems to click.. run time was only about 30 mins anyway.. hopefully this LED one will at least be a bit more reliable..

    You really should have done some more probing,your seller has done you a deal right enough.
    Sent from my Mobile using my sticky fingers.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South Hill, VA
    Posts
    4,061

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFlashlight View Post
    You're probably right but i'd still put out the extra cash for the upgraded one
    2000 lumen plus 20% is still far short of 12000 lumen.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Seeking a super-powerful torch for film production work!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    2000 lumen plus 20% is still far short of 12000 lumen.
    But adding a mere 500% would do it.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •