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Thread: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* foxtrot824's Avatar
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    Party Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    As usual Cree is setting the bar with some reasonable numbers..

    http://www.cree.com/lighting/product...ype-a-led-bulb

    They are back ordered until mid March but when they become available I will put one in the sphere and see how it does.
    - 18350 HDS EDC XP-L 90 CRI -
    www.romanlilligren.com

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    I get one tomorrow

    Also, price is $12.97, not $13.97

  3. #3
    Flashaholic sigsour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    I got one now


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    What a smart move by Cree!
    Since the bulb is dimmable, warrantied for 25K hours, 84+ l/w and certified for indoor/outdoor use - we finally have a LED bulb that can begin to compete against CFL bulbs. Mind you the first cost is still too high. Unless you are running this bulb in excess of 8 hours per day, the resulting payback is still more than 8 years compared to a base CFL. Still, instant On, dimmable, no mercury, long life and a good price should make this bulb a winner with the early adopters and perhaps the upper edge of the mass market.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by sigsour View Post
    I got one now


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Nice! So HD has them on shelves already?

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    Flashaholic wws944's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Looks like there are three in the series:

    * 9.5w, 800 lumen, 2700k, $12.97
    * 9.0w, 800 lumen, 5000k, $13.97
    * 6.0w, 450 lumen, 2700k, $9.97

    CRI is 80, at least for the 2700k versions. Guess they aren't using their Truewhite technology on these?
    "Your light emits unnecessary heat" - Zar

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Looks like the Philips L-Prize 60w equiv dropped in price to compete.
    I noticed it's $14.97 at home depot.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by wws944 View Post
    CRI is 80, at least for the 2700k versions. Guess they aren't using their Truewhite technology on these?
    Go here and scroll down to watch the product video to see shots of the bulb's LEDs.
    http://www.creebulb.com

  9. #9
    Flashaholic wws944's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    CEO Chuck Swaboda sez it is made in the US too: http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/22050...-less-than-10/

    I'm in for a few.
    "Your light emits unnecessary heat" - Zar

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Looks like they are using a whole bunch of XT-E or XP-E high efficiency white LEDs in the bulb.

    Youtube link to the video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnVw0doTbJ4

    Picture of the bulb without its glass can be seen for example in this article.
    http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets...er-10-2013035/
    Last edited by Jarzaa; 03-05-2013 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic sigsour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
    Nice! So HD has them on shelves already?
    Actually they gave all the employees one today. Made in Durham, NC

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarzaa View Post
    Looks like they are using a whole bunch of XT-E or XP-E high efficiency white LEDs in the bulb.

    Picture of the bulb without its glass can be seen for example in this article.
    http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets...er-10-2013035/
    Thanks for the link to a very good(and positive) article. The author states the bulb uses 20 XP-E LEDs.
    Since the required Bin of XP-E sells in quantity for around $1.60 -well- Cree must get a very good discount from itself.

    I do have one concern voiced by the author of that article. He mentions the bulb has a tacky exterior surface over the glass bulb. He pointed out that this could be a possible concern for trapping dirt etc. The article states the tackiness is caused by a coating Cree applied to make the glass globe shatter proof. If this is accurate then the bulb's usefulness could be restricted, particularly with outdoor use or dusty households. We need comments from actual users of the bulb. It is hard to believe that Cree would release a bulb that would not function in a normal environment.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    I question whether using glass is a good design decision here. One of the selling points of LED bulbs is that they're unbreakable. As for using 20 XP-Es, they have to be using the bottom of the barrel as far as bin goes but this is understandable given the price point. I'm figuring each LED is being driven at less than 0.4 watts. That should translate into 15% or 20% higher efficiency than driving at the one watt level, which in turn means probably 115 or 125 lm/W in warm white, even using the worst XT-E bins. Actually more because I'm sure junction temperatures are well under 85°C at that drive level. Despite that, the bulb as a whole is getting 84 lm/W, implying optical and driver losses of greater than 25%. That seems kind of high to me. You can design dimmable 120 VAC drivers with about 90% efficiency. That still leaves us well above 100 lm/W. So optical losses are over 15%? I know the goal here is to get something which "looks like a bulb", but most of the time bulbs are hiding in fixtures or behind lamp shades. I think the light distribution would have been similar just using a clear plastic globe, and Cree could have been above 100 lm/W. Don't get me wrong, this looks like a nice product, and I'm sure I'll pick up the 5000K version at Home Depot, but I think they could have done even better. I wouldn't expect them to use anything except the lowest bins given the price, but I think they could have taken the crown for the world's first production 100+ lm/W A19 retrofit with a few minor design changes. I think a clear globe with a removable diffuser might have made more sense. If looking like a bulb is important, you leave the diffuser on. If not, take it off and get 10% to 15% more light.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by slebans View Post
    Thanks for the link to a very good(and positive) article. The author states the bulb uses 20 XP-E LEDs.
    Since the required Bin of XT-E sells in quantity for around $1.60 -well- Cree must get a very good discount from itself.
    Actually the lowest bin XT-Es are going for roughly $1 each in 1000s at Mouser. Given that both Cree and Mouser are making money at that price level, I would expect the production cost to be substantially less than that. It wouldn't surprise me if it costs Cree under $0.25 each to make XT-Es. So that's $5 for the LEDs, probably $2 for the driver, maybe another $2 for everything else. $9 for Cree to make, maybe they split the profit 50-50 with Home Depot with a wholesale price around $11.50 or so. Just guessing of course, but that's how these things usually work.
    Last edited by jtr1962; 03-05-2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: I meant XT-Es, not XP-Es

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by sigsour View Post
    Actually they gave all the employes one today. Made in Durham, NC

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    So you work for Cree as well. I would have had mine today but I was of since I worked the weekend. Where do you work?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    Actually the lowest bin XP-Es are going for roughly $1 each in 1000s at Mouser. Given that both Cree and Mouser are making money at that price level, I would expect the production cost to be substantially less than that. It wouldn't surprise me if it costs Cree under $0.25 each to make XT-Es. So that's $5 for the LEDs, probably $2 for the driver, maybe another $2 for everything else. $9 for Cree to make, maybe they split the profit 50-50 with Home Depot with a wholesale price around $11.50 or so. Just guessing of course, but that's how these things usually work.
    I used the Cree PCT to play with different XP-E bins before my original post. At 90% efficiency for both Power and Optical, using 20 LEDs, I needed to select one of the highest XP-E bins to arrive at the bulb's posted specs. I do agree with you that the public LED prices on any suppliers web site are nowhere near the actual cost of the product. If I remember correctly, Cree's average product margins ran into the mid 40s before the drop to the 30s last year.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by slebans View Post
    I used the Cree PCT to play with different XP-E bins before my original post. At 90% efficiency for both Power and Optical, using 20 LEDs, I needed to select one of the highest XP-E bins to arrive at the bulb's posted specs. I do agree with you that the public LED prices on any suppliers web site are nowhere near the actual cost of the product. If I remember correctly, Cree's average product margins ran into the mid 40s before the drop to the 30s last year.
    There is no way the bulb is using XP-E, has to be a misprint in the article. XT-E is MUCH cheaper than XP-E and also has more output, I am 99.999% sure it's XT-Es in there.

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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
    There is no way the bulb is using XP-E, has to be a misprint in the article. XT-E is MUCH cheaper than XP-E and also has more output, I am 99.999% sure it's XT-Es in there.
    Perhaps you could check when you go to work tomorrow and post back!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
    There is no way the bulb is using XP-E, has to be a misprint in the article. XT-E is MUCH cheaper than XP-E and also has more output, I am 99.999% sure it's XT-Es in there.
    I just went back and re-read the article - the author did mention "high voltage" so I would agree that is must be XT-E High Voltage. Also the bottom of the LED package in the article's photo matches that of the XT-E not the XP-E.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by slebans View Post
    Perhaps you could check when you go to work tomorrow and post back!
    I'm not going to crack it open to check, I am going to use it, haha.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Looks like pronounced side-emission. I would like to see a real graph of the light distribution.

    Cute heatsink, looks hot:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...a_Marquart.jpg

    I wonder how long they plan, by offering no 3000 to 4000K, to avoid "avoiding niche markets."

  22. #22
    Flashaholic sigsour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
    So you work for Cree as well. I would have had mine today but I was of since I worked the weekend. Where do you work?
    LLS bldg 10

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by slebans View Post
    I used the Cree PCT to play with different XP-E bins before my original post. At 90% efficiency for both Power and Optical, using 20 LEDs, I needed to select one of the highest XP-E bins to arrive at the bulb's posted specs. I do agree with you that the public LED prices on any suppliers web site are nowhere near the actual cost of the product. If I remember correctly, Cree's average product margins ran into the mid 40s before the drop to the 30s last year.
    Actually, my calculations were based on using XT-Es, not XP-Es. I fixed the typo in my post. XP-Es are inherently much more costly than XT-Es. You can definitely get the worst bin XT-Es for slightly under $1 in bulk (5000s). We're obviously dealing with much larger quantities here, and Cree avoids two sets of middlemen, themselves and the distributor, which would increase the costs for anyone else making a lamp like this.

    Thinking about the price, a possibility is both Cree and Home Depot might be selling the lamp at cost just to undercut everyone else. Or perhaps Cree is using the sales of bare LEDs to cover for short-term losses in the A19 retrofit market. Either one might actually be a smart business strategy. By the time everyone else loses a significant market share, Cree's production costs will have dropped so that it might make a good profit even lowering the retail price to $10 because it has volume on its side. There will be plenty of niche markets for A19 lamps with high CRI, or CCTs other than 2700K or 5000K, for the other manufacturers. Cree seems to be interested mainly in the high-volume products.
    Last edited by jtr1962; 03-05-2013 at 07:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Looking at the phosphor coating looks definitely XTE. The size is certainly right as well.

    I expect that estimation of $0.25 for manufacturing cost could even be a bit high. I would have gone more for $0.20 given the selling cost for low bins.

    The glass envelope is likely done for cost / efficiency. It is much easier to make a low cost highly efficient (light transfer) diffused glass surface versus plastic ... done in the billions already with a well established manufacturing base.

    Semiman

  25. #25

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by sigsour View Post
    LLS bldg 10

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Ahh, so you knew about this before it was even released, haha. I work in Nitride Epi, we're in bldgs 1, 5 and 8.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    I just bought 10 Philips L-Prize bulbs when I found out they were on sale for $15/each at HD. Now I see why they are on sale. Still, I think the L-Prize bulbs are a better deal (higher efficiency, more lumens, and higher CRI) at basically the same price. Anyway, the competition is great for the consumer.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    it's great to see good LED bulbs getting lower in price..

    now if only they get these to Europe which is currently lagging waaay behind in LED retrofits.

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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    I applaud Cree for manufacturing in the U.S. even if mainly final assembly (and die manufacturing).

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRiz View Post
    it's great to see good LED bulbs getting lower in price..

    now if only they get these to Europe which is currently lagging waaay behind in LED retrofits.
    It seems as if Cree, and their architecturally minded partner, Zumtobelgroup, haven't put much effort into entering the European consumer retail markets. We'll see where this partership, and where the recently sold-off LEDON are headed.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Cree A19 9.5w 60w 800lm 2700K for $13.97

    The heat sink looks way too small for the 60 watt replacements. How much heat is going to be rejected to the socket.
    Maybe they think the internal air circulation will transfer some of the heat to the glass envelope.
    They really need to offer something between 2700 & 5000K.
    6.5K diving light, 5K cool-white, 4K neutral-white, 3K warm-white, 2.7K extra warm-white

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