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Thread: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Was looking at the foursevens Quark Pro QPA here, 1x AA.
    https://www.foursevens.com/products/QPA-AE

    Shows it's XP-G2 with 109 Max lumens @ 1 hour run time.

    The only thing I have to compare it to that I would consider close is my Fenix LD12 XP-G2 and it's 125 Max lumens @ 2 hours and 20 minute run time.

    I'm wondering why such a difference? With both flashlights using 1x AA and the XP-G2 I would expect the foursevens with a 109 Max lumens to have a longer run time then my Fenix LD12 or at least close to the same run time, but IMHO it's a lot less run time on Max lumens.

    I would really like to try the foursevens, but why don't they get as much run time as other companies out of their XP-G2's?
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Have you checked selfbuilt's Quark XP-G2 review?
    Foursevens runtimes are ALWAYS measured with Alkalines. Foursevens underpromises and overdelivers with regard to runtimes and ANSI lumens specs

    I don't know about Fenix. They might use Eneloop XX for their runtime measurements.

    Fenix or Quark, both are top quality lights regarding battery efficiency and brightness stabilization.

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    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Never thought about the run times with different batteries. Really with AA batteries run time is not all the critical for me.
    Even max Lumens of 109 vs 125 is not a big deal as I have found anything around 100 lumens is fine for me. I'm interested in the textured reflector and the moonlight mode that the four sevens has to offer.

    Anyway after reading your reply I placed a order for the Quark Pro QPA XP-G2.

    Have you checked selfbuilt's Quark XP-G2 review?
    This one or is there another one?
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...BEAMSHOTS-MORE!

    Thanks!
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

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    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Wow, just got a update email from four sevens literally six minutes after I placed my order that it's been shipped today!
    I even went with the free shipping option, very impressive. I really did not expect it to be shipped today.
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Yes, that's the review!

    Congrats to the purchase.
    If you're unhappy with the delivered unit (Eneloop runtimes, tint, ..), you can always contact the shipper and ask for suggestions. So you're on the safe side anyway!!


  6. #6

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by appliancejunk View Post
    Wow, just got a update email from four sevens literally six minutes after I placed my order that it's been shipped today!
    I even went with the free shipping option, very impressive. I really did not expect it to be shipped today.
    That's their style - incredibly fast on sending out orders. On that same note -

    I live overseas and...it's really odd, but Foursevens is easily the fastest shipper to me out of any other company I've used. If I order something I can expect it about a week later. Aside from how fast they process an order, I'd guess their order fulfillment is located near a national distribution center...because really - things from anyone else (including my own family!) take 10 days after mailing.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Good to hear about their fast shipping.

    Can anyone tell me if the foursevens I ordered has any parasitic battery drain?
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    No p drain.

    I always thought 47s measured with NiHMs? How do you know it's alkalines?

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
    Full Size: Quark AA/^2 Tactical (Neutral White XP-E), Surefire 6P w/ NB XP-G (4000k), QTL (XP-G)
    Small Lights: L3 Illumination L10 (Nichia 219)

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    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Good to hear no P drain. My tracking number shows I should have it Friday, darn good for free shipping!
    Thought about paying the extra for priority mail, but I probably would have only got it one day sooner anyway.

    Really looking forward to get it. Looks like it's very close in size to my current favorite EDC Fenix LD12 G2.
    Just love that size of 1x AA flashlight with a clickie tail cap switch. Only thing missing on my Fenix LD12 is a moonlight mode.

    Had been using my photon freedom for really low output, but after it quite working on me this last weekend well out of town I decided to look for a new 1x AA with a lower power output then my LD12.

    Thinking this Quark Pro QPA will fit the niche nicely.
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
    I always thought 47s measured with NiHMs? How do you know it's alkalines?
    it was mentioned several times on the forum

    but let's not generalize it

  11. #11

    Default Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    David, the owner, has mentioned here that runtimes are spec'd with the included alkaline batteries - which makes sense. I think you'll find the Quark just as bright as the Fenix. In addition to moonlight, the other advantages to the Quark's are its broad voltage capability (try 14500 lithium ions, or 3V CRAA lithium primaries for twice the max output and full [R]CR123 equivalency), Lego-ability (use an optional 2xAA or 1xCR123 body) and long warranty/good US-based customer service. However, I think Fenix has a nicer build quality and might be a little more efficient due to its narrower voltage-tuned driver. If you're interested in seeing real world runtime tests, try THIS thread.

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    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    reppans, thanks!
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
    No p drain.

    I always thought 47s measured with NiHMs? How do you know it's alkalines?

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
    Interestingly, the ANSI FL1 standard states that the flashlight's runtime must be tested with the included batteries. I'm not sure why some companies seem to be dodging that requirement.

    Edit: See below for a correction.
    Last edited by AnAppleSnail; 04-10-2013 at 01:00 PM.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    Interestingly, the ANSI FL1 standard states that the flashlight's runtime must be tested with the included batteries. I'm not sure why some companies seem to be dodging that requirement.
    Just to clarify, it is true that the ANSI FL-1 standard requires that the batteries used for reported run time measures must be the same type as those offered for sale with the product. But when the light is sold without batteries, the standard states that it is up to the manufacture to specify what type they are recommending, and then to report runtimes with that type.

    So, since Foursevens currently includes Duracell alkalines with their AA lights, they are limited to reporting on alkaline. Since most other makers don't include batteries, they can use what they want, as long as they list it (e.g., Nitecore usually specifies 2400mAh 1.2V on their products).

    In terms of the OP question, in my experience Fenix and Foursevens both have excellent current-controlled circuitry. Fenix ANSI FL-1 output, beam and runtime measures tend to be very accurate for typical performance, whereas Foursevens is often somewhat conservative (i.e., more a minimum spec, as opposed to an average one). In cases where output is actually comparable, I would expect runtimes to be as well, on comparable batteries.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 04-10-2013 at 12:53 PM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: Fenix LD60.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post

    So, since Foursevens currently includes Duracell alkalines with their AA lights, they are limited to reporting on alkaline.
    That's a rather stringent regulation, in my opinion. It seems reasonable that manufacturers are required to report performance on the included batteries, but I can see no harm in providing additional information for other chemistries, if presented in a way that is readable and unlikely to cause confusion or unrealistic expectations.

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    Flashaholic Photon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by appliancejunk View Post
    Really looking forward to get it. Looks like it's very close in size to my current favorite EDC Fenix LD12 G2.
    Just love that size of 1x AA flashlight with a clickie tail cap switch. Only thing missing on my Fenix LD12 is a moonlight mode.
    [...]
    Thinking this Quark Pro QPA will fit the niche nicely.
    I have a Quark Pro QPA and I love it.

    Note however, on the lowest mode the tint of the light is discernibly greenish. Not too bad, but it bugs some people. It can't be helped; it is due to such low current driving the LED. On the plus side, you get exceptionally long run times, and even with the tint you can still readily differentiate colors.

    If you, like many others, have an appreciation for low mode when your eyes are dark adapted, then you will love this light.
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    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Note however, on the lowest mode the tint of the light is discernibly greenish.
    Even with the XP-G2?
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swede74 View Post
    That's a rather stringent regulation, in my opinion. It seems reasonable that manufacturers are required to report performance on the included batteries, but I can see no harm in providing additional information for other chemistries, if presented in a way that is readable and unlikely to cause confusion or unrealistic expectations.
    Agreed, I suspect the point was that if you going to provide a single metric, it has to be consistent with what's actually bundled.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: Fenix LD60.
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    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    The new 4Sevens site seems to round the runtimes too coarsely. The runtime is longer than 1 hour.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by appliancejunk View Post
    Even with the XP-G2?
    All white LEDs shift tint with current and temperature. Depending on the individual LED in a given tint bin and the tint bin, Crees will look varyingly green or blue-purple. PWM dimming does not have as much tint shift as constant-current dimming. I find that my neutral-white Quark has no tint problems at low levels.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  21. #21

    Default Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    JMHO, but I believe "tint shift" to be a human perception thing. I can see a light's tint better shining on a white wall on the lower modes, but that's because lower modes are relatively underexposed to my eyes, and just like a camera, underexposure saturates color while overexposure washes it out. HERE'S a picture of some of my moonlight collection - top half on moonlight and bottom half on something around 100-125 lms. Only one is PWM. Also, I can't tell any difference in between current regulated and PWM in terms of "tint shift." Course, YMMV.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggle View Post
    The new 4Sevens site seems to round the runtimes too coarsely. The runtime is longer than 1 hour.
    Hmmm, well, the ANSI FL-1 standard calls for runtimes over 1 hour (but less than 10 hours) be reported in hours and minutes, rounded to the nearest 15 mins. For runtimes under 1 hour, they are supposed to be in actual minutes. For runtimes over 10 hours, they are to be report in hours only.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: Fenix LD60.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Hmmm, well, the ANSI FL-1 standard calls for runtimes over 1 hour (but less than 10 hours) be reported in hours and minutes, rounded to the nearest 15 mins. For runtimes under 1 hour, they are supposed to be in actual minutes. For runtimes over 10 hours, they are to be report in hours only.
    SB, where can we find the ANSI FL-1 standards? Maybe we can make that a Sticky, I think it would be very helpful to the community.
    Full Size: Quark AA/^2 Tactical (Neutral White XP-E), Surefire 6P w/ NB XP-G (4000k), QTL (XP-G)
    Small Lights: L3 Illumination L10 (Nichia 219)

    Support Systems: LaCrosse BC-900 NiHM and SheKor Li-Ion Chargers

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    *Flashaholic* carrot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
    SB, where can we find the ANSI FL-1 standards? Maybe we can make that a Sticky, I think it would be very helpful to the community.
    You can't. The spec must be purchased from ANSI or NEMA.

    Some information is publicly known and shared on various websites. But the full spec is not public.
    [gearcarrot.com] Collector and distributor of (mis)information.
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
    SB, where can we find the ANSI FL-1 standards? Maybe we can make that a Sticky, I think it would be very helpful to the community.
    If you have $67.00 you don't want to spend on a new flashlight, you can buy your copy of ANSI FL-1 2009 here
    http://webstore.ansi.org/RecordDetai...FTR2cAod0VIAbQ

    or if you prefer to take a peek at a free overview, try this link instead
    http://flashlightwiki.com/ANSI-NEMA_FL-1

    or one of these (to manufacturers)
    http://www.streamlight.com/documents/ansi/ansi-pres.pdf
    http://www.fenixlight.com/NewsMore.aspx?id=32&cid=1
    Last edited by Swede74; 04-11-2013 at 07:55 AM.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    All interesting replies, thanks!
    Tracking show I should have my first Quark in my hands tomorrow afternoon, can't wait!
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

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    Flashaholic Photon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by appliancejunk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Photon View Post
    Note however, on the lowest mode the tint of the light is discernibly greenish.
    Even with the XP-G2?
    I checked again last night. The tint shift is barely noticeable. Unless the beam is against a white wall and you are looking specifically for the whiteness of the color, you may not even notice it. In retrospect I probably should not have even mentioned it.

    A few years ago I got a mini-sized shake light. It was a decent one with magnets at either end (instead of rubber bumpers) to repel the main magnet. I shook it for a bit and turned it on. Nothing. Shook it some more. Still no light. Shook it a bit more. Finally some light, very dim, but it was so green I thought it was a cyan LED. Continued shaking and eventually it produced a decent amount of light that was acceptably white.

    So yes, LEDs when underdriven will have a tint shift. But on the Quark AA QPA (and also the 2xAA model as well) the tint shift is small enough to be very acceptable, at least for me.

    I'm sure you will enjoy your light. Let us know.
    Light Emitting Diode: A third less calories than a regular Emitting Diode.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    In retrospect I probably should not have even mentioned it.
    I would have noticed sooner or later, lol...

    I doubt it will bother me. Either way it's interesting to know.

    Thanks,
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  29. #29
    Flashaholic appliancejunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    David, the owner, has mentioned here that runtimes are spec'd with the included alkaline batteries - which makes sense. I think you'll find the Quark just as bright as the Fenix. In addition to moonlight, the other advantages to the Quark's are its broad voltage capability (try 14500 lithium ions, or 3V CRAA lithium primaries for twice the max output and full [R]CR123 equivalency), Lego-ability (use an optional 2xAA or 1xCR123 body) and long warranty/good US-based customer service. However, I think Fenix has a nicer build quality and might be a little more efficient due to its narrower voltage-tuned driver. If you're interested in seeing real world runtime tests, try THIS thread.
    I'm trying to learn more about the 14500 lithium ions you mention.
    The 14500 lithium ion would fit in the Quark Pro QPA as-is?
    The specs on the flashlight says 0.9V-4.2V and this 14500 lithium ion would give me 3.6V from what I have read about them.

    So if I'm correct in my thinking that I will simply be able to drop this 14500 lithium ion into my new Quark then sign me up!
    Anything I should look for or watch out for well shopping for a set of 14500 lithium ions and charger?

    Thanks!
    Fenix: PD32 (G2) | PD22 (G2) | LD12 (G2) | E15 | MC11 | E11 | LD01 FourSevens: QPA (G2) | QTLC (G2) | MLR2 (G2)

  30. #30

    Default Quark Pro QPA - Why such run time even with lower max output?

    Quote Originally Posted by appliancejunk View Post
    I'm trying to learn more about the 14500 lithium ions you mention.
    The 14500 lithium ion would fit in the Quark Pro QPA as-is?
    The specs on the flashlight says 0.9V-4.2V and this 14500 lithium ion would give me 3.6V from what I have read about them.

    So if I'm correct in my thinking that I will simply be able to drop this 14500 lithium ion into my new Quark then sign me up!
    Anything I should look for or watch out for well shopping for a set of 14500 lithium ions and charger?

    Thanks!
    Yeah the Quarks will take anything in single cell form with perfect regulation - all lower modes retained at spec and only Turbo will double in lumens (~40% perceived increase). Good thing you have a AA - 14500s are 20-25% more capacity than 16340s. Li-ions run up to 4.2v btw. Make sure you use a multimeter and do some reading on precautions and safe handling of Li-ions though, they can be burn-your-house-down dangerous if mishandled. For batts, take a look HKJ's website, he's the CPF resident battery tester.

    http://lygte-info.dk/review/batterie...Test%20UK.html

    I'm using 47s charger and Cottonpicker's smallest USB charger with display (more expensive but has integrated volt meter and it's tiny). But research the battery subforum for other choices.

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