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Thread: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

  1. #1
    Enlightened
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    Default Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    Hi All

    I have a Thrunite Archer 1a , which I initially ran on L91 Energizer which was OK , but I wanted more! so decided to try a 14500.

    I did a bit of research on here and other places on the net and got a little nervous of Li-lons so went for Lifepo4 , These make the Archer much brighter , I have been using it this way for a bit now and of course now I want even more!!!!

    So to my questions,

    1,Will I notice the difference between the Lifepo4 @ 3.2v and the Li-lon @ 3.7v? A 15% increase in voltage.

    2, If I use quality batteries and charger and I am sensible, Do I need to be very worried about Li-lons?
    I will of course respect the batteries and follow advice found on charging them found elsewhere.

    3,I am looking at getting Nitecore 14500s and a Xtar MP1S charger, are these a wise choice?

    Thanks in advance Roy

  2. #2
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    As long as you use a good charger and use "protected" batteries you should be fine, I have never had a problem with any of my Li-Ion batteries..

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sivy View Post
    1,Will I notice the difference between the Lifepo4 @ 3.2v and the Li-lon @ 3.7v? A 15% increase in voltage.

    2, If I use quality batteries and charger and I am sensible, Do I need to be very worried about Li-lons?
    I will of course respect the batteries and follow advice found on charging them found elsewhere.

    3,I am looking at getting Nitecore 14500s and a Xtar MP1S charger, are these a wise choice?

    Thanks in advance Roy

    1. You will probably not notice much of a brightness difference but you will get longer runtimes.
    2. As long as your sensible and follow some basic guidelines, lithium ions are fairly safe in my opinion. Just donít charge them unattended.
    3. Nitecore makes good batteries but they are extremely expensive for what they are. I would recommend getting the xtar VP1 as it will give you more flexibility in the future with lithium ion cells as well as it having a digital voltage readout.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    LiFePO4 is lithium ion.

    1) You will get longer runtime.
    2) Ask the Boeing 787 engineers if they need to worry about lithium-ion batteries.
    3) I don't see a problem with the choice.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    There are a couple of things to remember about brightness. Although LiFePO4 has a lower nominal voltage vs LiCo, many LiFePO4 cells are high current cells, and can deliver MUCH more current than LiCo. They can also do it with much less voltage sag. The result? At higher current draws, the voltage difference is narrowed or even negated. Also, LiFePO4 is unique among Li-Ion batteries (yes, LiFePO4 IS Li-Ion) in the sense that it is a constant voltage battery. This means that voltage doesn't drop with state of charge like LiCo (or other Li-Ion batteries). So if you consider that low voltage protection typically kicks in at around 2.5-2.8V with LiCo, the voltage of LiFePO4 will be above LiCo for much of the cycle. In a way, the comparison between LiCo and LiFePO4 sounds alot like alkaline vs NiMH (especially when you consider that alkaline typically has a higher capacity vs NiMH).

  6. #6

    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    And may I ask the difference between the Lifepo4 and Li-po used in RC cars?

  7. #7
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion


  8. #8

    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    I think I've found a more definitive answer here: (lipo and Lifepo4) and other similar chemistries

    http://www.eemb.com/Li-FePO4_battery/default.htm

  9. #9
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    Thanks to all those who replied.

    A couple of the replies suggest I would not notice the difference in brightness with the extra 0.5v supplied by the Nitecore NL147 LiCoO2 and the Lifepo4 I have.

    I have no real reason to doubt this but came across this review......

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...BEAMSHOTS-MORE!

    If you go down the review about half way to the "Throw/Output Summary Chart" it shows list the lumens of various torches run on CR123 3v batteries and the same torches with RCR 3.7v batteries and the extra 0.7v seams to make a large difference.

    Would I not I not see an uplift in Lumens like this?

    PS my torch is a Thrunite archer 1a , which as you may know has the XP-G2 similar to some in the chart.

    Thanks Roy

  10. #10
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    As a follow up to this , I went ahead and got some IMR 14500 3.7v efest batteries , and cannot tell any difference in brightness at all!

    Which is what most of the replies suggested.

    My guess is that the Archer is at full lumens at around 3v , It was fun to try it out and not to expensive , will no doubt use the new charger for a 18650 light I may get in the future.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    If you're using a quality charger and good protected cells, you shouldn't have need to be that worried.

    i use a soshine SC-S7 charger and never worry about the cells with it. It's a great charger and it plugs into my laptop so it's great for travel and will charge AA batteries too. It has a display that reads out actual voltage and % capacity which helps quickly test batteries.

    the real danger comes in lights that take more than one li-ion battery if you put them in and they aren't all at thensame capacity. That's why a good charger that reads out th capacity is important.

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Lifepo4 vs Li-ion

    Quote Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
    There are a couple of things to remember about brightness. Although LiFePO4 has a lower nominal voltage vs LiCo, many LiFePO4 cells are high current cells, and can deliver MUCH more current than LiCo. They can also do it with much less voltage sag. The result? At higher current draws, the voltage difference is narrowed or even negated. Also, LiFePO4 is unique among Li-Ion batteries (yes, LiFePO4 IS Li-Ion) in the sense that it is a constant voltage battery. This means that voltage doesn't drop with state of charge like LiCo (or other Li-Ion batteries). So if you consider that low voltage protection typically kicks in at around 2.5-2.8V with LiCo, the voltage of LiFePO4 will be above LiCo for much of the cycle. In a way, the comparison between LiCo and LiFePO4 sounds alot like alkaline vs NiMH (especially when you consider that alkaline typically has a higher capacity vs NiMH).
    both are li-ion with different chemistries. lithium cobalt has been around CPF almost from the beginning. our very own JsBurly was responsible for world's first protected CR123 cell. hocked his house to finance the project and basically got nothing out of it. Chinese took his technologies and ran with it... rest is history.

    lithium cobalt reaches full charge at 4.2v .. is basically dead at 3.65v .. .. LiFePO4 is fully charged at 3.65v .. at 3.2v about 15% remaining... normal voltage runs from 3.325 to 3.2v or almost flat discharge curve. at 2.875v is 99% discharged.

    LiFePO4 has substantially less energy density. all lithium batteries have low internal resistance and discharge at high rates. LiFePO4 are substantially safer with much higher charge cycles.

    LiFePO4 are used in motorcycle batteries due to safety and most importantly a match voltage wise with 12v charging systems.
    Tesla S uses LiNiO2 batteries with less cobalt than other models.

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