Gift for a Future Boeing 747 Pilot

One of my students is going through flight school right now and will be basically finished in a few months. He has been assigned to the Boeing 747 and will probably stay on as a 3rd seat for awhile before being moved to a co-pilot. However, this is a great achievement for him and I would like to buy him a decent light for his bag or as a spare. I don't have money to buy him the type of light he may need for the walk around. Have no idea what he may need it for, cockpit maybe, just a spare perhaps. Batteries have be long life I think, but Lithium batteries he may forget to charge and I read on another thread they could explode, so... not sure how good of an idea that is, but... I may consider. I originally bought him a Maglight XL100 before I found this forum, and to be honest I hate it, it's a piece of junk and hard to use. Definitely not pilot material.


1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
_XXX___I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest!

____Less than $25.
_XXX___Less than $50.
_XXX___Less than $100.
____Less than $150.
____Less than $300.
____I have no limit.
____I'm flexible, tell me what you gotJ.
____Other, please specify ________


3) Format:

_XXX___I want a flashlight.
____I want a headlamp.
____I want a lantern.
____I want a dive light.
____I want a portable spotlight.


4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

____Keychain size.
__XXX__Every day carry small (2-4 inches).
__XXX__Every day carry medium (4-7 inches).
____Holster carry.
____Big enough to need its own travel caseJ.
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____N/A


5) Emitter/Light source:

_XXX___LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.


6) Manufacturer:

XXX____I want to buy a light from a traditional mass producing manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
____I would consider getting a light that is pieced together (for example a "host" or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a "drop-in" emitter from another source). Under the right circumstances, this path can provide more options to the consumer to meet specific needs, and can often be easily upgradeable as technology improves.


7) What battery type do you want to use?

_XXX___I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today's most powerful lights)
_XXX(Maybe)___I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
____I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
____I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

_XXX___I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
__XXX__I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
____I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
____I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.

_XXX___Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
_XXX___Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
_XXX___5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
_XXX___30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
____150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
_XXX___90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
_XXX___3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
_XXX___Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
_XXX___Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):

____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
____I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today's high end lights).
____I don't care.
_XXXX___I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
_XXX___I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
_XXX___I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
____I want a strobe mode. (Blinks to show location.)
____I want SOS mode.
____I want a beacon mode.
____I don't care.
____I don't know.

I think I need at least two, one for the cabin at night and one for other things. But needs to be easy. A twisty would work, but I am not familar with how the others work. So this is critical, if any pilots out there, let me know what works the best for you.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
_XXX___Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's flashlights).
_XXX___Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________.


15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.

_XXX___Red filter (for preserving night vision). Might be nice but not critical
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
____Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments

Ok have at it and thanks in advance. If you are a pilot and you think what I want is odd, then please give me your ideas, I have no idea what you guys really need. Again though I am not looking to buy him an expensive first hand light, I am looking at buying him something he can use in the cockpit and for emergencies and stuff like that.

Only one light! , Surefire A2 Aviator with red secondary leds , or a Surefire A2(red)Led Aviator! , designed for a pilot:wave:

stienke said:

Only one light! , Surefire A2 Aviator with red secondary leds , or a Surefire A2(red)Led Aviator! , designed for a pilot:wave:

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Thank you, Mmmmm yes, indeed, and a nice light at that, but I am not going to spend $300 for a light for him... Is there something equivalent that might be around the US$50-100 range?

stienke said:

Only one light! , Surefire A2 Aviator with red secondary leds , or a Surefire A2(red)Led Aviator! , designed for a pilot:wave:

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lightyearsaway said:

Thank you, Mmmmm yes, indeed, and a nice light at that, but I am not going to spend $300 for a light for him... Is there something equivalent that might be around the US$50-100 range?

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I have seen A2-RD and A2L-RD in reasonable shape sell for around that on the MarketPlace

archimedes said:

I have seen A2-RD and A2L-RD in reasonable shape sell for around that on the MarketPlace

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I hadn't planned on buying something used, but... And the other problem is getting it here if I do find one in good shape for low price...

lightyearsaway said:

I hadn't planned on buying something used, but... And the other problem is getting it here if I do find one in good shape for low price...

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Post into the WTB section on CPFMarketplace and ask for a minty one with the box etc. included , shipping is doable , I've sent lot of lights around the world without any problems.
A second hand light is not a problem , most people here do baby they lights .
Another option is the Nitecore SRT3/5/6/or7 , nice light with secondary led(s) including red! , it's not so original as a Aviator (and no lifetime warranty) but they seems to be good!

One thing about the surefire is it runs on CR123's. Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked luggage (below the plane). They are allowed on carry on luggage.

When the pilot brings his bag, I'm assuming they throw it under the plane, but maybe not (is there room for the bags in the cockpit, I don't know). If that is the case, then he would have to keep any spares on him, and finding extra batteries might be difficult in some cities (I didn't see any when I was flying, although I didn't need them, so I wasn't looking specifically for them). It may not matter, but its something to think about. (will he be hauling freight, or people, as I'm sure the rules for lithium batteries may be different)

tel0004 said:

One thing about the surefire is it runs on CR123's. Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked luggage (below the plane). They are allowed on carry on luggage.

When the pilot brings his bag, I'm assuming they throw it under the plane, but maybe not (is there room for the bags in the cockpit, I don't know). If that is the case, then he would have to keep any spares on him, and finding extra batteries might be difficult in some cities (I didn't see any when I was flying, although I didn't need them, so I wasn't looking specifically for them). It may not matter, but its something to think about. (will he be hauling freight, or people, as I'm sure the rules for lithium batteries may be different)

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Having just went threw this for an international flight last month lithium batteries ARE permitted in checked luggage if installed in the device, its only loose batteries that must be in your carry-one. If he were to use some sort of sealed battery holder (like the tubes illumination gear sells) or a spare body tube with end caps or even a complete spare light (because having a spare light is just as important as having spare batteries) he would be able to have spares below while complying with the FAA rules.

He could also carry 4 spares in a powerpax "slimline 123" holder, aviation is afterall their original intended use.

What is the difference between the A2-RD and A2L-RD? I assum ethe A2L-RD is a newer model?

I wwould recommemd a zebralight H51w. It is a a headlamp but can be used as either that or a regular flashlight. Plenty bright enough on high to use outside and low enough on low to use in the cockpit without disturbing the pikot and co-pilot. With it being a headlamp it would allow hi, to have his hands free in case of an emergency or he needed both hands.

I'm a 747 pilot (whale driver) myself. I'd like to clarify a few points before making a recommendation...

You mentioned third seat...Do you mean as a Flight Engineer, or as an IRO (International relief officer) sometimes referred to as the "cruise crew" The 747-200/300 series does utilize a flight engineer. The 747-400 series does not.

Is this an all cargo airline, or a passenger carrier? Personal baggage for the crew is never placed in belly compartments. He will have access to all his baggage. We keep ours (all cargo airline) on the main deck which is accessible in flight. If it a passenger carrier, then it may be stowed on the upper deck.

Lastly and probably the most important what kind of flashlight does his Operations manual specify under personal equipment. US FARs specify a 2-D cell or "equivalent" that equivalent term is subject to much debate. But if his Ops manual says 2 D cell and dropped the "equivalent" Then he is locked into that. I went through this at a past airline where our FAA rep just would not buy off on anything less than 2 D cells.

I will tell you what I carry....

A surefire A2 with the Cipulssi ring in red/WW
I do have a Nitecore EA2 that uses 2AA batteries and I am quite impressed with it. It may replace my surefire.
I also keep a smallish pocket sized light. Very handy for wandering in the back without waking up the dead head crew. (ITP EOS III)

If I were to be at another airline where I was locked into the 2 D-Cell again...I would carry the Fenix TK50.

Bicycleflyer said:

I'm a 747 pilot (whale driver) myself. I'd like to clarify a few points before making a recommendation...

You mentioned third seat...Do you mean as a Flight Engineer, or as an IRO (International relief officer) sometimes referred to as the "cruise crew" The 747-200/300 series does utilize a flight engineer. The 747-400 series does not.

Is this an all cargo airline, or a passenger carrier? Personal baggage for the crew is never placed in belly compartments. He will have access to all his baggage. We keep ours (all cargo airline) on the main deck which is accessible in flight. If it a passenger carrier, then it may be stowed on the upper deck.

Lastly and probably the most important what kind of flashlight does his Operations manual specify under personal equipment. US FARs specify a 2-D cell or "equivalent" that equivalent term is subject to much debate. But if his Ops manual says 2 D cell and dropped the "equivalent" Then he is locked into that. I went through this at a past airline where our FAA rep just would not buy off on anything less than 2 D cells.

I will tell you what I carry....

A surefire A2 with the Cipulssi ring in red/WW
I do have a Nitecore EA2 that uses 2AA batteries and I am quite impressed with it. It may replace my surefire.
I also keep a smallish pocket sized light. Very handy for wandering in the back without waking up the dead head crew. (ITP EOS III)

If I were to be at another airline where I was locked into the 2 D-Cell again...I would carry the Fenix TK50.

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Hi Bicycleflyer and thank you for your comments. Highly appreciated!

Sorry, I did make a small mistake when I wrote that. He is not an engineer, I said third seat at this moment becuase he is still in training. Meaning he is just watching what is going on in the cockpit right now, it is part of their training. So what seat he is actually sitting in, I have no idea, I just know he is sitting in the cockpit. Whether or not they let him take the contols sometimes for practice yet is something I am not sure of, and not sure he could tell me anyway. He is training on the 747-400 series for now. He is flying both cargo and passenger in this series. He will be made a co-pilot in the near future and then of course in many many years perhaps a captain.

As for the Ops manual recommendations for a flashlight I couldn't tell you, I have no idea. Do you mean that even in the cockpit they tell the pilots what kind of light they have to use? This is a foreign airline and not a US airline, though as you know most countries model their requirements after the US, so again something I don't know. If he uses the light I buy, would he be repremanded for it? This is for cockpit use only not for the walk around. Would the flight Ops manual specifically tell them what light they have to use for both things?

After your comments I hesitiate to buy anything because I am not sure if he could use it or not.. Unless I buy him something simple only as a back up. It seems your lights are all using alkaline batteries too, no?

Your comments had a lot of usable info...

First he is riding in the cockpit observers seat, there are two in the cockpit of a 400. Probably just getting in some time watching and learning. He may even be getting to do the walk-around. In which case a good flashlight is handy. Even in a dark cockpit a small dim light is useful.

You could ask him about the ops manual or another pilot if you know one. I see you're in Taiwan and I actually have a good idea what airline. I'll see if I cant nose around and learn something. You are correct, most countries do model their regs after US regs and "yes" they can dictate what flashlight he has to carry. But in that event, just get the legal flashlight and then carry and use what you want. That is what I did when I was locked into a certain flashlight. So don't be hesitant about getting him a good flashlight. No, he would not be reprimanded for it either. Things are changing. Airlines are beginning to understand that battery type does not dictate the quality or performance and letting crews pick their own lights.

You mention AA,

I have used the following models with success

Streamlight Sidewinder (I still keep this one in my GA bag)
Nitecore EA2 (current favorite)
Fenix LD25
JetBeam PA40 (uses 4xAA and a bit larger)

If you are willing to consider a CR123 battery, I have used these.

Surefire Aviator (expensive unless bought used) Mine has the cipppulsii ring
O light S20
Streamlight Nite.com
Surefire G2 (this was actually required by one airline)

If I was forced to make a recommendation at this very moment...I would go with the Nitecore EA2.

A new light that has my curiosity is Nitecore's SRT3 It uses either RCR123x1, CR123x1, or AAx1. The total lumen output changes from 500 to 180 if you switch to the AA. But that is still very impressive and would be more than adequate for your friends needs. I may have to break down and get one, but if you decide to try it...drop me a line and let me know how it works.

not a pilot, but ive done plenty of walk-arounds on 747 and 777 as a technician.
and if i could go back, and just buy 1 light. it would probably be a surefire E2L-AA. uses 2xAA batteries. great runtimes, great heat management, good throw, durable, and reliable. it always starts on low which is around 3-5 lumens, and 2nd mode is high of around 80-100 lumens. and thats it, very simple, and versatile.
its low mode might be a little bright for cockpit use though. but surefire also makes a red filter (F05). there is also the diffuser (F04)

ive also owned a A2 red, incan verison. and found the secondary red was too bright for me. also the A2 is not as efficient and uses cr123 batteries.

do cockpit crews even use red lights anymore with all the cockpit lighting? it seems that all you need is an aa light such as an L3 illuminations 4-mode nichia for $25 which is a cream colored warm light with a moonlight mode for night adjusted eyes or any old 1" diameter single cell 123 surefire with a removable F06 red filter if red is even relevant anymore. I have red filters for my dual mode surefires but never use them. I do not pilot aircraft anymore but my brother is a united captain & flys boeings & airbuses & says all he carries is a disposable penlight with momentary only switch to use to see through the windshield to look at the deicing indicator. he says they dim the cockpit lights except when they read novels which is most of the time. he says most of his copilots usually carry mini maglites to do the walk around inspections. if your student is flying freight he may want 4-mode nichia if crew is snoozing & he wants to be considerate of snoozers. he may want one anyway because they have good run times on lithium energizers & are good inexpensive all purpose warm tint lights, imo. I never travel without one in my flight bag. the warm tint moonlight does not disturb co-passengers when I rummage around at night in my flight bag.

lightyearsaway said:

What is the difference between the A2-RD and A2L-RD? I assume the A2L-RD is a newer model?

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I was hoping that Bicycleflyer would notice this thread

The A2 has a central (white) incandescent lamp and peripheral LEDs.

The A2L has a central white power LED and peripheral LEDs.

The A2 (not A2L) may be upgraded with an aftermarket calipsoii (programmable) peripheral LED "ring".

archimedes said:

I was hoping that Bicycleflyer would notice this thread

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I did notice. I am using the A2 with the "calipsoii" ring. I just have not been spelling it correctly. Mine has a single red and two warm white LEDs.

The reason I did not respond was the OP specified AA batteries and a budget that the A2 does not fit into. So there was no point. Shoot, I even had to buy my A2 from the CPFMP.

I must admit, I have been very impressed with the Nitecore EA2. it has a good high beam, an excellent low, and the UI is easy to operate. It even tells me when the batteries are low. The reason I carried both was there was a lot said on CPF about the reliability. So far the EA2 has proven rock solid.

Bicycleflyer,
Again thank you for the feedback, very much appreciated. I did some checking on the EA2, looks like a nice light, only issue is that it probably needs the rechargeable batteries to have a decent lifespan. But it seems it can work off regulars, but different brands seem to have a huge impact on those lights. There is a review I found by searching for that light on this forum. Very informative too. the EA2 is within the amount I was willing to spend on a light for him also, and it has that Red LED like the A2 aviator has. My only concern with this light is the mode functions, I am not sure how they work and I wouldn't want him to accidently turn it on high in the cockpit or something.
Let me know what else you can find out for me, if the EA2 is acceptable I might choose it. I just don't know how long that electronic switch is going to last. Any bad things to say about this light? Seems you love it, how many hours of usage do you have with this light so far? And what type of batteries are you using in it?

Lots of great lights being recommended here, going to be a tough choice I think.

And thanks archimedes, I did figure out that actually it was the same model, just with different secondary LED colors.

lightyearsaway said:

....
And thanks archimedes, I did figure out that actually it was the same model, just with different secondary LED colors.

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Minor point perhaps(?), but the difference between the A2 & A2L is actually the central light source ... both versions are available with secondary LEDs in various colors (RD, BL, GN, WH, etc).

Oh doh! I misread your last post. I see now one is LED and one is incandescent, and honestly, actually I thought perhaps that the A2L did indeed mean LED. It's 1am here... Sorry about that.. But I do think this light is a little too pricey anyway, and there are so many other lights being mentioned here that it seems I have much choice. Though I have to say I love the fact that the EA2 and the A2 do have that RED LED. I might even buy the EA2 for myself for multi-purposes. It does seem like an all around all purpose light. But will away Bicyleflyers further comments.