100W-equivalent price trend?

g9019

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My porch light just burned out. It's a single-bulb fixture and I had a 100W incandescent in it. I had been hoping to replace the 100W incandescent with a 1600+ lumen LED. But, wow, these things are expensive. The Philips "100W equivalent" for example is more than $50 at Home Depot or Amazon. Even at my high electric rate (for the US) of ~$0.20/kWh, that's something like 3000 hours of use to break even, which would be perhaps 3 years of use for this fixture.

Prices for the 60W and lower LED equivalents have declined quite a bit over the last couple of years, especially with Cree's recent entry to the market. But the prices for the higher-lumen bulbs seem to have stayed pretty much constant. Any insights on when the price declines seen for the lower-lumen bulbs might come to the higher-lumen models?
 

EngrPaul

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You're right. The 100W equivalents are not much more efficient and are expensive. I have the Philips 22W A21 version you mentioned which is approximately 111W equivalent. It's brighter than the 23W CFL it replaced.

Otherwise, I'm finding the 10W L-Prize bulbs I paid under $25 for are almost as effective as 75W equivalence and work in many places where I was using 23W CFL. Definitely a payoff there.

Maybe cheap 100W A19's are just a couple years away...
 

etc6849

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I'm looking for a decent 100W equivalent too.

The philips 100w lamps are expensive. However, from 8/5 to 8/16 homedepot.com has them for $48.97 (the cheapest price I've seen). I think the sale started today if you're interested: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...3675471?keyword=100w+philips+led#.UgBId5KG2HM

I just ordered four to experiment with and return if I don't like them.

I tested quite a few led lamps from Lowes and Home Depot. The Utilitech Pro 100W LEDs are in stock at Lowes for $34.97. I bought three of them as using only two didn't supply enough standby current for my Z-Wave Vizia RF dimmers (the little green LED lamp would cut in and out). I suspect the Ultilitech's are made by Philips, but I'm not sure. I'm going to compare the two and keep the best.

I hooked the Utilitech's up to my oscilloscope using a Fluke i30 current clamp, and the wave form dims very nicely. No switching noise at all! In fact, the waveform looked very similar to a 100W incandescent, but only with a lower amplitude through the entire dimming range. The 75w Philips alien head dimmed the same way.

I also tried the ecosmart 75w LEDs from Home Depot. Too much switching noise, and you can even see this at certain brightness levels as the light flickers on/off very fast. The same was true with the Cree led I tried. I'm not sure if it's my dimmer or what, but Cree does recommend using a minimum of two with most dimmers. I only tried one, so this may have been my issue.
 

MichaelW

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I'd hope the prices improve. Feit has a 150watt equivalent remote phosphor. It is a bit down on lumens, IMO, at only 2200, and uses 32 watts.
Not positive on price, but I'd estimate $45.
 

etc6849

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When will the Feit 150watt equivalent be available? I'm interested as it sounds like an awesome work light. I think Feit makes the Ultratech Pro LEDs at Lowes (not Philips)?

PS: I bought a solar panel at Radioshack to test the Cree and Ecosmart LEDs for flicker using my oscilloscope (ac coupled input). Sure enough, both of them had flicker. I couldn't detect any flicker on the 100W Ultratech Pro. I'm very impressed with the Ultratech Pro with phosphors; far better than the incandescent I tried that had some flicker too.

Still waiting on the Philips lamps I ordered from homedepot.com.
 

MichaelW

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Don't know? I think someone asked that on the Feit Facebook page.
She is a big lady, A23 sized. Feit's 100watt remote phosphor is only A21, and 75w-A19.
 

etc6849

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Yes, that is big!

The Feit/Ultratech Pro 100W is about 2.75" x 5.125" (including the socket), and I thought that was big...
 

MichaelW

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Found an online location. earthled.com (which is overpriced; The Philips 100w remote phosphor is $55 (not on sale at HD) is $66) Their listing for Feit's 150w is $57.
 

etc6849

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The Philips bulb visually dims very well and has no flicker at any level. However, it has too many high current (3 amp) peaks every cycle. I'm not sure if the high current peaks will hurt my Vizia RF+ dimmers overtime or not, but I certainly wouldn't feel right putting 4 of them on one 600W dimmer.
 

etc6849

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Never mind. I tried a 100W incandescent with my dimmer and it has similar 2A peaks/spikes every cycle. I think the peak is due to switching noise of my Vizia RF+ dimmer. The alien head looks fine to use in a dimmer. Just don't put more alien heads than you would incandescents and you should be fine.

I pasted all of my oscilloscope views here if anyone wants to see them:
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/17552-more-led-bulb-options/page-24#entry200139

The Philips bulb visually dims very well and has no flicker at any level. However, it has too many high current (3 amp) peaks every cycle. I'm not sure if the high current peaks will hurt my Vizia RF+ dimmers overtime or not, but I certainly wouldn't feel right putting 4 of them on one 600W dimmer.
 

LEDninja

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Found an online location. earthled.com (which is overpriced; The Philips 100w remote phosphor is $55 (not on sale at HD) is $66) Their listing for Feit's 150w is $57.
Got a spam mail from them.
Their Xledia 125W 5000°K and 100W 2700°K are $44.99.

My HD (Canada) does not have the Philips 100W. I paid $44.98 for the 75W.
 

EngrPaul

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I'm looking for a decent 100W equivalent too.

The philips 100w lamps are expensive. However, from 8/5 to 8/16 homedepot.com has them for $48.97 (the cheapest price I've seen).

Hope you didn't buy them at that price, they were just lowered again...

Philips 22-Watt (100W) A21 Household Soft White (2700K ) Dimmable LED Light Bulb (E*)
Brightness: 1780 lumens
Light Appearance: 2700k
Model # 424432
Internet # 203675471
$39.97/each (WAS $54.97)
Online Special Valid : 08/15/2013 - 08/31/2013



I would say the price trend is downward :)
 
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Anders Hoveland

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100W-equivalent
Well, the term "100 watt equivalent" can mean different things, because a 100 Watt incandescent bulb can give off a fairly wide range of different light intensities depending on its design, quality, and the type of bulb. The 100 watt light bulbs in my little stockpile are rated 1670 lumens (frosted). I also have some "double life" 100w bulbs rated at 1500 lumens, 1500 hour lifespan.
 

Anders Hoveland

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120 volt lamp 1,700 lumens.
230 volt lamp 1,160 lumens.
???
Why the difference? I expect the numbers to be different but not by that much.
It is actually more efficient to use lower voltages. If a higher voltage is used, the filament has to be longer to maintain the same resistance. But this also means a larger area emitting heat, so the temperature would be lower. In practice, this is compensated for by using a thinner filament and not as long, so as to maintain a higher temperature, given the same resistance value. But a thinner filament means reduced life. So to maintain an acceptable lifespan with the thinner filament, a sacrifice in filament temperature has to be made.

The most efficient filaments run at 6 volts. Because they are much thicker, this allows them to operate at a somewhat higher temperature while still maintaining an acceptable lifespan. But designing a power outlet to supply 6 volts would be impractical because of voltage drop in the long electrical wires. And just in case you were wondering, below 6 volts the filament would be impractically short and this would lead to thermal losses decreasing efficiency again.

Although it is a simple concept, the design considerations behind incandescent technology are actually fairly complex.
 

MichaelW

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Hope you didn't buy them at that price, they were just lowered again...

Philips 22-Watt (100W) A21 Household Soft White (2700K ) Dimmable LED Light Bulb (E*)
Brightness: 1780 lumens
Light Appearance: 2700k
Model # 424432
Internet # 203675471
$39.97/each (WAS $54.97)
Online Special Valid : 08/15/2013 - 08/31/2013



I would say the price trend is downward :)
and Home Depot has a new version of Philips 100watt A21 design. It appears if the remote phosphor is gone, and the metal body color is a shade or two lighter.
and $35.

I saw the Feit "150"w equivalent at Menards, $48 for the warm-white, $49 for the cool-white 5000K. Wide, but not that long (for an A23 form factor); and not as heavy as I was expecting.
 
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EngrPaul

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and Home Depot has a new version of Philips 100watt A21 design. It appears if the remote phosphor is gone, and the metal body color is a shade or two lighter.
and $35

I had not seen this, thanks! 100 fewer lumens and 3 less watts, it's closer to 100w/equiv and a tad bit more efficient. I might give them a shot - not in stock yet.
 
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carnal

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and Home Depot has a new version of Philips 100watt A21 design. It appears if the remote phosphor is gone, and the metal body color is a shade or two lighter.
and $35.

Interesting. i'll bet there is still phosphor in the mix, just whiter. AND $5 CHEAPER. Wonder if the CRI goes down with this vers.
Brian
 
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