Is there a good 75 watt equivalent LED bulb for an enclosed fixture?

I have an enclosed fixture that takes 75 watt bulbs. From reading here, it appears that LED bulbs do not do so well in enclosed fixtures where heat is retained to a greater extent. Does anyone know of a good LED bulb that is equivalent to a 75 watt incandescent bulb that will work? Or, should I stock up on 75 watt incandescents while I still can?

Any information regarding 100 watt equivalent bulbs is also appreciated, since I have some enclosed fixtures that use these as well.

Thanks in advance.

The XLEDIA X and D series claim to be rated for fully enclosed fixtures. Amazon sells them, too. They make 40W to 100W equivalents in directional or omnidirectional, and a 150W equivalent in a directional bulb. I just ordered a X40 2700K for our weather-sealed porch light.

When my dad had fixtures installed for our house in 70s-80s, pretty much all of them were weather-sealed types, including many of the interior lights, especially the bathrooms. This was back when incandescents were the only game in town. I've since replaced all of the incandescents with CFLs or LEDs, and so far the LEDs are doing fine but a couple of the CFLs suffered early deaths -- not sure if it's because of the sealed fixture or just a crappy brand/batch/luck.

If there's no way for the LED bulb to access fresh air (i.e. room temperature air), I have a hard time understanding how it can get rid of the waste heat. When I read the info from XLEDIA:
"Unlike most LED Bulbs which carry a strong warning about using the bulb in a fully enclosed fixture, X and D Series LED Bulbs are different. Thanks to a Thermal Tunneling Resistance (TTR) Technology, X and D Series LED Bulbs can be used in fully enclosed environments. TTR creates a thermal tunneling effect to enhance air particles to tunnel through the heat sink and to carry out more heat generated by LED emitters. It also reduces the weight of a bulb, up to 50% lighter, and improves the cooling efficiency up to 60 degrees F (15C) cooler. "

excuse me... "thermal tunneling resistance"???
there ain't no such thing. air particles do not tunnel through a heat sink. Air particles can flow over a heat sink and energy can be conducted to the air, but there's no tunneling going on.

Lifetime of the LEDs and electronics is largely determined by their temperature. There are good designs and bad designs, but enclosing the whole thing in an airtight chamber built of material that has low thermal conductivity is just not going to do much for the lifetime of the LED bulb. Maybe there's a way to provide a gap in the light fixture to let air in?

Well, mine is on it's way so I'm going to find out how well it does in an outdoor, weather-protected and sealed fixture. Will report back in either 15 days or 15 years after it's installed.

LED bulbs do not behave the same as incandescent.
Watch this videom - Picking the right 60W LED bulb - YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1DuVDD8Nmc
In some applications (where the bulb can be pointed at the area needing light) some LED bulbs can put 3X more light on the area needing light. Or to put it another way you can get away with replacing a 75W incandescent with a 40W equivalent LED of the correct type.
In other applications (where the bulb can not be pointed at the area needing light) LED bulbs are the same as or worse than incandescent.
Unfortunately most enclosed ceiling fixtures have the bulb pointed sideways. Which means with a lot of LED bulbs (including the Xledia X series) just shoots the light across the ceiling, not down into the room.
I do not have a D series, do not know how omnidirectional it is.

Considering the cost of the higher wattage bulbs, it may be easier to just buy some new lamps.
Use Xledia D series 40W bulbs in your enclosed fixtures. More than enough light to avoid running into walls and doors or trip over furniture. Then get desk lamps that point light where you need it. Bedside table, desks, on top of the fridge. A floor standing version next to your arm chair.

Xledia have lower lumen numbers than the competition regarding wattage equivalents. Their '75 watt' only have 1000 lumens. Need their '80 watt' to get 1160 lumens.

Steve K said:

If there's no way for the LED bulb to access fresh air (i.e. room temperature air), I have a hard time understanding how it can get rid of the waste heat.

Click to expand...

There is a rule of thumb for people building their own outdoor light fixtures which have to be water and therefor air tight. 10 square inches per watt.
With an A19 bulb the surface area is quite small.
With a foot wide enclosed light fixture the surface area 4*π*6*6 or 452 sq. in.. It can support up to 45 watts if the leds are attached to it. LEDs are not, but the calculation shows a lot of heat can CONDUCT through the glass.

Steve K said:

Thanks to a Thermal Tunneling Resistance (TTR) Technology, ...
excuse me... "thermal tunneling resistance"???
there ain't no such thing. air particles do not tunnel through a heat sink. Air particles can flow over a heat sink and energy can be conducted to the air, but there's no tunneling going on.

Click to expand...

Hee hee hee hee.
You can not tell the difference between engineering speak and marketing speak?
-
Most 1st generation heat sinks consists of a metal tube with fins sticking out of it. The tube wraps around the cylinder containing the electronics. So the electronics temperature is the same as the heat sink temperature which is the same temperature as the LED.
In the lower wattage bulbs (4W heat or less) enough heat gets transferred to the air that the electronics is around 60°C.
In the higher wattage bulbs the electronics is almost at the same temperature as the LED around 85°C.
Now capacitors last 50,000 hours at 60°C but only 6000 hours at 85°C.
-
Xledia's way of keeping the capacitor temperature low is not use the tube in the heat sink. The fins are attached to the top plate of the heat sink. There is a gap between the back of the fins and the cylinder containing the electronics. If you look at the back of the fins it looks like there is a TUNNEL between the fins and the electronics. Since air has more THERMAL RESISTANCE than metal less heat gets to the electronics. The electronics is now at the temperature of the surrounding air (60°C?) instead of the temperature of the metal of the heat sink (85°C?)
-
Between marketing speak and translation from Chinese to American they ended up with "thermal tunneling resistance".

Steve K said:

Maybe there's a way to provide a gap in the light fixture to let air in?

Click to expand...

Another gap to let the HOT air OUT is equally important.
I have a closed top fixture, wide open on the bottom. The fixture runs HOT with just a 2 (TWO) watt LED bulb.

Yes, Kobi manufactures LED retrofits specifically designed for enclosed fixtures: http://www.bulbamerica.com/kobi-war...le-led-a19-shape-warm-white-light-bulb-1.html .

However, I think any LED retrofit bulb will operate okay in an enclosed fixture, provided it dissipates less than 15 watts of heat, and space inside the enclosure is not extremely small. Especially for outdoor lighting at night, where the temperature will be colder.

Anders Hoveland said:

Yes, Kobi manufactures LED retrofits specifically designed for enclosed fixtures: http://www.bulbamerica.com/kobi-war...le-led-a19-shape-warm-white-light-bulb-1.html .

However, I think any LED retrofit bulb will operate okay in an enclosed fixture, provided it dissipates less than 15 watts of heat, and space inside the enclosure is not extremely small. Especially for outdoor lighting at night, where the temperature will be colder.

Click to expand...

I do not see any mention of suitable for enclosed fixtures on that page. Checked Amazon and 1000 bulbs too.
The picture on Amazon does show the heatsink much wider at the top with the electronics pushed down to the bottom. This may dump more heat into the air before it reaches the capacitor but the bulb looks standard sized - they are dumping 10W into an area that normally can handle only 4W comfortably.
A lot of outdoor lighting in enclosed fixtures are done with PAR bulbs. And a PAR 38 bulb is HUGE with a lot of surface area.

Wonder who's LEDs those Xledia lamps are using.

1) How are those XLedia lamps doing? I am thinking of getting a few.

2) Here is their heatsink info page:

Link

I can't speak towards the "tunneling" mumbo jumbo, but the facts on the page about caps going bad/drivers failing and not the LEDs themselves going south is certainly accurate.

3) Link to Someone's Video Review

Unless the camera is automatically dimming, I disagree with the reviewer: the 80 watt equivalent is definitely not as bright as the 100 watt incandescent it replaced. It also appears to have a slight greenish cast...?

Jump to 3:15 seconds to see before and after he swaps the bulbs.

4) Now let's look at the X17.

Is that flicker I detect?

Thought it would be neat to pop by on the one year anniversary of my last post!

I discovered this thread (again) while checking to see if there was any new information on the XLedia LED bulbs.

Still thinking of picking up a couple or three for a commonly used fixture to try them out...

These days, the Cree 75w would be the way to go. It just so happens that my current workplace is almost all LED lit, but the owners aren't too savvy about it; the main hallway is lit by A19's in glass jars with cages, shipboard style, about 1 liter volume, fully enclosed. Had Home Depot LED's in it when I started, but all died late last year. Now running Cree 60W's, and no deaths yet despite running 12-24 hours per day.


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See the review on the Cree 60Ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DDFRBrSas&list=TL5ODXcWEvhytDk02IcnpynnWqmCJz4Tv0
At around the 10:05 mark there is a discussion on how heat affects the capacitor. The capacitor runs at 85 - 95°C. That is around 6000 hours. At 12-24 hours a day you should be getting close to the end of life for your bulbs. At 3 hours a day (1 hour in the morning, 2 in the evening) the capacitor gets a chance to cool off between uses and the total runtime should be better.
Let us know how long they actually last.

The Cree 100W equivalent has a larger heatsink. But it is much bigger. Does not fit inside the reviewer's enclosed light fixture. The Cree 60W does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EsShcfCldA&list=UUqp2_p4YjtaTKiHuNZv0mAQ

After much thought I bought the Cree 40W. It produces less heat so may last longer.

The reason the XLedia appeals to me is because the electronic components are physically/thermally isolated from the heat source.

I will probably buy three and report back...

I sent out an email to the customer service or sales address on their website, and the vice president wrote back. Neat!

I inquired as to whether I could purchase an XLedia 75 watt "equivalent" bulb but in high CRI.

In his reply, he stated that they could do a 75 watt equivalent bulb at 95 CRI, but, the efficiency would drop and the price would be higher.
I would need to commit to 500 pieces.

I am only a hobbyist, so, I had to decline his offer.

He stated that if you are involved in cinema, makeup/hairstyling, food industry, etc. you might notice the difference,
but that the 80 CRI of their "regular" offerings was sufficient for general use.

I wrote in my reply that Home Depot carries the Cree "TW" series of high CRI LED bulbs, and many people enjoy them,
and certainly not all those people are involved in art, photography, movies, etc.