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Thread: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

  1. #1

    Default Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    I was looking at Eneloop's, and was looking at the XX's, but after reading Sanyo's website, I am not sure about the XX anymore.

    The latest standard Eneloop's are rated for 2,000 mAh (min 1,900 mAh) and upto 1800 charge cycles - that's a possible total of 3,600,000 mAh. But they also claim 90% capacity after 1 year and 70% after 5 years!

    The XX version are rated to 2,550 mAh (min 2,450 mAh) and upto 500 charge cycles - which gives a much more disappointing total of 122,500 mAh. The claimed capacity after 1 year for these is 85%, but no other time-scales are mentioned.

    So with all that in mind, is there any real benefit (apart from the extra 500 mAh in a charge) of the XX? It seems to me, that unless runtime is mission critical standard Eneloop's are better, and might even hold a bigger charge for a longer period.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    I don't think the XX's are worth it just based on price. 50% price increase for 25% more capacity.

    I have a lot of white shell Eneloops (sixteen sets of four [64 cells] just for my camera flashes, probably another forty or so kicking around the house) and I use them frequently and often drain multiple sets down to nothin' in a single sitting, but I doubt I have any sets that accrue more than 50 charge cycles a year. It'd take me ten years to work through the XX's nominal charge cycle rating, and I seriously doubt the batteries would be worth using by then...even if they'd been lightly used and only worn down a couple times a year.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Wrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Generally speaking, I agree and would say they aren't worth it. The regular Eneloops have a significantly higher cumulative lifetime capacity potential as well as cycle life potential, and of course a lower self discharge rate.

    What I do is have extra sets of cells that I store charged, ready to use, and then when my used Eneloops get too low, I put them on the charger and put in a matched charged set in the device. So there's no waiting for the cells to charge.

    The only time the XX cells might be worth it to get is when you specifically need/want a somewhat longer run time per charge from the cells you're using and it isn't practical to switch them out with a charged set.

    Oh, and FYI, off the top of my head I believe the newest gen. Eneloops in Japan are rated for 2,100 cycles and an even lower self discharge rate.

    These cycle life potentials are rated to 80% of original capacity per charge. This is an accelerating degradation, so for most of that life expectancy they should be performing closer to their initial 100% capacity rating.
    Last edited by Wrend; 08-23-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    As somebody who bought Sanyo 2700s, Accupower 2900s and Accupower 1200s, I'm not adverse to HiCap HSD cells, but I haven't felt the need to get the Eneloop Pros/XX cells at double the price.

    If you're using them up in short order, you'll get maybe a bit longer runtime out of the higher capacity batteries, but if you're using lots of the LSDs and don't need that extra 40%, then I'd pass, based on lifespan.

    Chris
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    From my experience, higher capacity batteries such as the Eneloop XX can DEFINITELY have value over lower capacity ones. Sometimes, you're in a situation (like camping or, especially, backpacking) where recharging batteries is not feasible. In these sorts of situations, having a higher capacity battery is truly a blessing. Even if you can just bring along a greater number of lower capacity batteries, you may want to bring a lighter load. Remember that four four packs of XX's is equal to five packs of regular batteries. Also, higher capacity batteries mean that you don't have to fumble around as much in the dark changing batteries.


    With all this said, there are cheaper and easier to get alternatives to Eneloop XX's. I've had good luck with Duracell 2450s. They're not LSD. But if I'm going for a hike at night (for instance), I'm going to charge my batteries before going rather than rely on something that has been sitting, regardless of whether or not it is LSD. I've also had good luck with Powerex 2700s. There is, of course, LOTS of doubt around here as to the lifetime of these batteries. But if they only last a couple of years, no biggie. If they give me two years of good service and I can benefit by having higher capacity, then that's worth a few bucks to me.

    The new 2400mAH Duracell Ion Cores may be good. And at around $11 at Wally World, they're certainly ALOT cheaper than Eneloop XX's (which cost closer to $15 and have to be mail ordered, so you have to pay shipping). But they are relatively new and untested.
    Last edited by StorminMatt; 08-23-2013 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Enlightened Yorgi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    I use XX Eneloops in my DSLR camera flashes only. In addition to the extra capacity they also have a 25% greater maximum discharge rate compared to standard Eneloops which comes in handy for very high draw applications like flashes.

    And keep in mind event at "only" 500 lifetime recharges, it will take 9.6 years before the battery is toast if you do one recharge per week.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Wrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Here are some test results for voltage/current performance which include the 1500 cycle Eneloops and the XX cells, for anyone interested: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ce-Test-Thread
    Last edited by Wrend; 08-24-2013 at 02:56 PM. Reason: looking at graphs upside down

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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
    Either way, we're talking some pretty good performance from either type of cells. I think 10 amps while holding above the rated 1.2V halfway depleted is pretty good.
    Eneloop does not do that, but it looks like Elite cell nearly does.
    My website with flashlight, battery and charger information: lygte-info.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Thank you for all the insightful answers, I hadn't even thought I might not see 500 cycles out of the battery. At 1 cycle a week (and that would be very high usage for me) it would take 10 years.

    The shelf time is also interesting. It is a pity they don't list 3 or 5 year data for the XX, but that aside after 1 year there isn't that much between them.

    85% of 2500 is 2125 whereas 90% of 2000 is 1800.

    So if we are going by capacity and 1 year shelf life only then the XX a aren't looking so bad after all. Plus they have slightly better high drain support.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    So if we are going by capacity and 1 year shelf life only then the XX a aren't looking so bad after all. Plus they have slightly better high drain support.
    The XXs do not work as well in my salt and pepper grinders as the regular white ones do.
    Leslie W. Knight

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCarrot View Post
    Thank you for all the insightful answers, I hadn't even thought I might not see 500 cycles out of the battery. At 1 cycle a week (and that would be very high usage for me) it would take 10 years.

    The shelf time is also interesting. It is a pity they don't list 3 or 5 year data for the XX, but that aside after 1 year there isn't that much between them.

    85% of 2500 is 2125 whereas 90% of 2000 is 1800.

    So if we are going by capacity and 1 year shelf life only then the XX a aren't looking so bad after all. Plus they have slightly better high drain support.
    Hi Caps definitely have their place. Hard and quick use is probably where they shine. If you're going to let them sit in a flashlight for a while, without monitoring, then maybe you want something else.

    Also, if you need a lot of cells in your armory, then maybe 2x the price isn't for you. Camera flashes, or hand held radios, like my Wouxun UV2-D and its 5 AA battery pack, maybe they'll yield more talk time than standard 2Ah Eneloops.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by lwknight View Post
    The XXs do not work as well in my salt and pepper grinders as the regular white ones do.
    How long time have you used the XX, before you found that out?
    My website with flashlight, battery and charger information: lygte-info.
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    Flashaholic* TinderBox (UK)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Anybody tried the new GP 2700mah professional, packet says stays charged longer, but no pre-charged or low discharge mentioned 500 cycles, the price is not bad.

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    Flashaholic* Wrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    Eneloop does not do that, but it looks like Elite cell nearly does.
    Yeah, not quite sure what I was thinking there other than looking at the graphs upside down.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGarrett View Post
    Hi Caps definitely have their place. Hard and quick use is probably where they shine.

    ...

    Camera flashes
    I wouldn't use them in a camera flash for one reason. Heat. I've melted more than one flash head on white shell Eneloops. Something that'll cycle a flash even faster is not good. At least for me.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Are you sure that is the fault of the battery's labeled capacity?

    It could be mismatched cells causing one cell to deep discharge and then reverse charge.

    Just a thought.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic Rosoku Chikara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    I started a thread to discuss this subject, and wrote "volumes" on this question.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...why&highlight=

    Others also contributed many useful opinions, experience and knowledge. But, in the end, it seems to be a matter of personal preference.
    My avatar photo is that of a small handmade toy boat that propels itself along the water in a realistic "chug-chug" kind of motion, yet is powered entirely by CandlePower. (Japanese children used to make them out of various types of junk, but now they are largely a "lost art.")

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    How long time have you used the XX, before you found that out?
    I charged them fresh and used them till they quit.

    I thought that the XXs would be great but it turns out that the motor was draggy with the XX where the regular cells did quite well.
    There is a little light that shines to aim your seasoning and when the grinder binds a little the light dims a lot with XXs.
    The regular eneloops turn the grinder faster and seem to hold the light better even when a new peppercorn drops in the teeth.

    I tried 2 different sets of XX just to rule out a bad cell and the results were the same. So far the energizer lithiums are the big winner in chopping peppercorn and rock salt.
    Leslie W. Knight

  19. #19

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCarrot View Post
    Are you sure that is the fault of the battery's labeled capacity?

    It could be mismatched cells causing one cell to deep discharge and then reverse charge.

    Just a thought.
    Just assuming you addressed that comment to me.

    It's not a battery problem per se. Nor is it a reverse charge problem. It's a simple heat problem coupled with poor thermal cutouts (from everyone--it's not a Nikon/Canon/Metz/whoever specific problem).

    The faster cycle times that XX's allegedly provide will, obviously, allow the end user to pop off flashes faster, generating more heat. And the higher capacity will let the end user keep the flash sealed up with warm batts inside it for longer.

    Gimme a flash and enough batteries--any flavor--and I guarantee you I can have that flash head melted or the electronics belching smoke within a week. I'm pretty hard on gear.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Fair enough

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    I had a different problem with XX - size. I bought a package of 4 and they weren't all the same size. The first XX I picked, wouldn't fit in the AA light. Only 2 of the 4 fit. (My white Eneloops were 12 for 12.)

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Wrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoyoman View Post
    I had a different problem with XX - size. I bought a package of 4 and they weren't all the same size. The first XX I picked, wouldn't fit in the AA light. Only 2 of the 4 fit. (My white Eneloops were 12 for 12.)
    That's kind of weird. You'd think they'd fit within they're specs, so kind of have to toss that up to random margins, or maybe you got some off cells.

    Maybe in your case there isn't much tolerance, but in general, I wouldn't say this is a factor in what others should choose for their needs.

    Anyway, as I said in my first response: If you need longer run times without needing to switch out cells, the XX cells are potentially a valid choice. Otherwise, they aren't. Simple as that. (No need to over complicate things here...)
    Last edited by Wrend; 08-26-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  23. #23

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    Default Re: Are XX Eneloop's worth it for the extra 500mAh?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCarrot View Post
    The latest standard Eneloop's are rated for 2,000 mAh (min 1,900 mAh) and upto 1800 charge cycles - that's a possible total of 3,600,000 mAh. But they also claim 90% capacity after 1 year and 70% after 5 years!

    The XX version are rated to 2,550 mAh (min 2,450 mAh) and upto 500 charge cycles - which gives a much more disappointing total of 122,500 mAh. The claimed capacity after 1 year for these is 85%, but no other time-scales are mentioned.
    You are missing a zero on your Eneloop XX calculation - off by a factor of ten. If you are still around, would be good to edit the original post. Tends to skew things pretty dramatically when you have an error like that.

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