Is Energizer trying to kill rechargeable batteries? They're sure trying.

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
Saw these in Target as I hit the fourth and last store in my area trying to score some cheap Duraloops.

http://www.energizer.com/batteries/rechargeable-batteries/Pages/d.aspx

Seriously? a 2500 mAh NiMH D cell? So you want me to pay the same price for a 2-pack of fake *** D cells as I would for a GOOD pack of 4 AAs that each have almost the same capacity? Are you HIGH?

But wait, there's more

http://www.energizer.com/batteries/rechargeable-batteries/Pages/c.aspx

they come in C cell size too! Oh joy!

I mean, really. It's not that they managed to put out a *bad* cell, to make one this pathetic takes real effort. It's like they're just saying expletive you, consumers, we want to sell you our (admittedly excellent) lithium primaries, so we're going to make our rechargeables suck so much dong that if you're dumb enough to actually buy them the taste in your mouth will be literally like kissing your crazy bipolar ex-girlfriend, but without any of the good parts."

And *good* brands like Eneloop, Maha Imedion, and Tenergy Centura are nowhere to be seen on your average store's shelves. (Notable exception: I have seen Tenergy Centuras in C, D, and 9V - but not in AA or AAA - on the shelf at Micro Center.)

Am I alone in being insulted by this?

Please moderate your language - Norm
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,506
Location
Flushing, NY
Am I alone in being insulted by this?
No, I'm disgusted that with decent LSD NiMH pretty much being a defacto replacement for alkaline cells we still even see alkalines on the store shelves. It's no surprise both Duracell and Energizer have made little effort to educate the average consumer on LSD cells when their primary business is alkalines. The retail stores can't be blamed much either when they make way more money off alkalines than from rechargeables. At best, they'll have a few packs of rechargeables sitting behind a display full of alkalines. IMO we should do one of two things-either require putting information on LSD cells on packages of alkalines and next to store battery displays OR levy a $1 per cell tax on alkaline batteries. Most people would adopt LSD cells in a heartbeat if they were properly informed. By the same token, selling standard high-discharge NiMH and C/D cells with crappy capacities will do nothing but turn people off to the idea of rechargeables. Then again, that's probably the point here. It's a pity because we have a great product which should have garnered near 100% market share by now, and yet too many people still reach for the alkalines, even for high-drain devices where the economics are horrible.

Really, this is a case of Energizer treating customers like morons and also blatantly trying to extend the shelf life of a product which was functionally obsolete about three years ago.
 

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
I would say that your average Target has maybe 1/5 to 1/4 of their battery shelf space devoted to rechargeables... but most of them are Energizer, with the remainder Duracell. Nothing decent in the lot, unless the latest batch of Duracells turns out to be good. Since they're so new though, I'm going to stick with what I know works.

If I'm still pissed tomorrow I might write a letter to Target corporate suggesting they start carrying Eneloop and Centura instead of Energizer, and maybe offer a decent charger as well. They already sell Eneloops on their web site, just not in stores. And post it here so you all can cut 'n' paste into your own correspondence, and maybe also edit appropriately and send to the store of your choice.
 

TinderBox (UK)

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
3,488
Location
England, United Kingdom
Most people don't have fancy charger`s that can handle 10.000mah+ capacity's though most can handle 2500mah fine with their low charge rates, that is why the D cells have such a low capacity so they can get a reliable charge termination with capacity's any higher than 2500mah the charger might miss termination, it`s not a rip off unless they are extortionately priced.

John.
 

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
It'd be way more honest to just sell AA to D adapter sleeves like eneloop does, and more practical too as many chargers will take AAs but not Cs or Ds, and then you're not using "special" cells in your D cell using devices. Although I wish that the 3xAA to D adapters were more readily available, those get you to at least the same order of magnitude of capacity as a real D cell. I saw in another thread that there's a Chinese eBay seller selling them (and the 4xAAA to C) for a reasonable price, just waiting on a quality report before ordering. And yeah, the price is kind of high, it's about the same for 2xD as the regular price for 4xAA Duraloops. Or only slightly less than Tenergy Centura Ds. The Centura Cs are actually less than the 2500 mAh Energizer Cs on Amazon!

Or to look at it another way, the cheap "CTA" cells that DX sells are likely better than these!
 
Last edited:

torukmakto4

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
112
Well, other than people like us (who know why, where and how to seek out and purchase a real nickel D-cell and can make use of the capacity) who would EVER need a NiMH D cell with 10 AMP-hours?

Most devices that the mere mortal consumer type of market use are intended to run on alkalines, and while an alkie D may be a lot of capacity in rating terms and able to supply a lot of amps compared to other alkalines, it really doesn't hold up under load, as is expected from this crappy obsolete chemistry. Increasing the discharge current rapidly torpedoes the voltage and delivered capacity. So, if you have a device that expects D alkaleaks, you would probably be just as happy with AA NiMH cells, which have less internal resistance than the fresh D did and give up their full capacity at rated voltage under multi-amp loads.

I would expect it to be a minority of devices that use D cells because of capacity, and not because of the currents involved. As an example, one of my other hobbies is hacking nerf guns. "Mods" usually have lipos and NiMH packs and the like and are electrically similar to an airsoft gun after they have been fixed and upgraded, but off the shelf they are all set up to use these ridiculous alkaline batteries. One such application is 6 D cells on a 360 size electric motor. There is no way those would give up rated capacity - they are D cells purely so the motor will have enough current available to turn over the gearbox. If you just wanted to make that thing lighter you could put a six-pack of eneloops in there and it would run for ages at about one shot fired per mAh.

Not that I think the Energizer marketing is not a scam...

It is.
 

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
Judging by the Amazon reviews, people with kids are using D cell powered baby swings (makes sense as babies can't be trusted not to eat AC cords) and they're pretty disappointed in the Energizer cells.... so there's an app where a D is used for both current and capacity.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 4
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
7,197
Location
decamped
The AA is the most commonly-used cell in the world. As such, it receives the lion's share of development and production resources from major NiMH producers, with AAA a distant second and all other sizes seeing residuals.

If you've ever handled an Energizer, Duracell, or Ray-O-Vac D cell, you'll immediately notice how light they are. Combining that with their low capacity that happens to line up with AA cells, and you'll probably assume that inside they're really a AA cell permanently mated to a D adapter - I certainly do. It would be nice if some manufacturer of LSD cells would realize that there is demand for C and D cells with high capacity, but so far they remain niche items and we're kind of lucky that a few companies make "vanilla" NiMH cells in 5000 - 10,000 mAH capacities.

I wish I could find some quality 3x AA : D parallel adapters for some mod projects I've got in mind since one might die of old age waiting for the manufacturers to meet our admittedly niche demand.
 
Last edited:

bmel17

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
41
Location
East Coast
I wish I could find some quality 3x AA : D parallel adapters for some mod projects I've got in mind since one might die of old age waiting for the manufacturers to meet our admittedly niche demand.

I just ordered 2 adapters in the hopes they will fit my needs. Now to wait the 2 week to get them. sigh
 

snakebite

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Messages
2,721
Location
dayton oh
rechargeables are not duracell,energizer,rayovac,ect bread and butter.throwaways are.
really good rechageables threaten that.the big mfrs probably hate me as i go about "poisoning the well" so to speak.everyone i know is using the blue panasonic d nimh i got in a huge qty years back.
none buy alkaleaks now!
they are for disposeable things like crap plastic lights used for work so nobody will steal them ,ect.
i consider anything known to have problems with rechargeables to be junk not worth buying.
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
7,197
Location
decamped
IMO we should do one of two things-either require putting information on LSD cells on packages of alkalines and next to store battery displays OR levy a $1 per cell tax on alkaline batteries. Most people would adopt LSD cells in a heartbeat if they were properly informed. By the same token, selling standard high-discharge NiMH and C/D cells with crappy capacities will do nothing but turn people off to the idea of rechargeables. Then again, that's probably the point here. It's a pity because we have a great product which should have garnered near 100% market share by now, and yet too many people still reach for the alkalines, even for high-drain devices where the economics are horrible.
You would be amazed how many people are aware of NiMH and even LSD-NiMH that still buy alkalines. Unless it's a device they use near-daily, they just can't be bothered with the higher per-cell cost, additional expense of a charger, and the "hassle" of recharging.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,506
Location
Flushing, NY
You would be amazed how many people are aware of NiMH and even LSD-NiMH that still buy alkalines. Unless it's a device they use near-daily, they just can't be bothered with the higher per-cell cost, additional expense of a charger, and the "hassle" of recharging.
I'm still surprised here because for me the one thing which got me to retire alkalines permanently is their propensity to leak. Prior to LSD cells I agree it was a hassle keeping NiMH charged in lightly used devices but nowadays that's a complete non-issue. All it takes is one ruined device to make the cost of some rechargeables and a charger worthwhile.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,506
Location
Flushing, NY
It'd be way more honest to just sell AA to D adapter sleeves like eneloop does, and more practical too as many chargers will take AAs but not Cs or Ds, and then you're not using "special" cells in your D cell using devices. Although I wish that the 3xAA to D adapters were more readily available, those get you to at least the same order of magnitude of capacity as a real D cell. I saw in another thread that there's a Chinese eBay seller selling them (and the 4xAAA to C) for a reasonable price, just waiting on a quality report before ordering.
Yes, I actually agree that given the fairly low volumes of C/D cells sold compared to AA/AAA, it would just make more sense for the battery companies to sell adapters. The best LSD AAs are 2500 mAh, so a 3xAA to D adapter offers a capacity of 7500 mAh. This good enough compared to a real LSD D-cell (the best capacity I've heard is 9500 mAh for Imedion D-cells). And 4xAAA to C gets you 3200 mAh with most typical LSD AAA cells. Again, not quite the 5000 mAh capacity of the best LSD C-cells, but much better than "fake" Cs.
 

ampdude

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
4,584
Location
USA
Energizer (and other makers) have been doing that for a long, long time. Most people don't know any better so they sell just like the AA's.

It's nothing new! Smart chargers will terminate properly regardless of capacity, I only ever own smart chargers.
 
Last edited:

TinderBox (UK)

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
3,488
Location
England, United Kingdom
I thought you had to charge at least 0.3C to be sure that the battery full voltage drop is detected to terminate the charge, so if you are charging an 5000mah D cell you need to charge at rate of 1500ma and this is beyond most normal store consumer chargers, and the safety timer would have to terminate the charge.

John.

Energizer (and other makers) have been doing that for a long, long time. Most people don't know any better so they sell just like the AA's.

It's nothing new! Smart chargers will terminate properly regardless of capacity, I only ever own smart chargers.
 

StorminMatt

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
2,263
Location
Norcal
I'm still surprised here because for me the one thing which got me to retire alkalines permanently is their propensity to leak. Prior to LSD cells I agree it was a hassle keeping NiMH charged in lightly used devices but nowadays that's a complete non-issue. All it takes is one ruined device to make the cost of some rechargeables and a charger worthwhile.


Very true about ruined devices from leakage. But besides that, I find there are other advantages to rechargeables. One is better performance. Quite simply, a light such as my Dereelight Javelin with a Solarforce XM-L2 drop-in would be completely useless with alkaline batteries at maximum brightness. But even with 2000mAH AA batteries, I get a solid 1:20 of bright light from it at maximum brightness. Dimmer lights may work OKAY on alkalines. But I like a light that doesn't dim as you use it. That's always been a pet peeve I've had with alkaline batteries. Quite simply, the constant voltage output of NiMH is something I've always liked.


But another thing I really like about rechargeables is the way that they inspire what we might call a 'culture of abundance' rather than a 'culture of scarcity'. Alkaline batteries cost you money every time you use them. They can't be recharged. You have to throw them away and get new ones every time they are used up. Because they cost you, there is a desire to conserve them. Don't use that light (or other device) unless you REALLY have to because this is costing money. Put up with poor performance as the light dims because they're still working. You don't want to throw your money in the garbage too soon! Even if you're getting 30 of them for a few bucks at Costco, it's still costing money. And when they run out, you will be without batteries until you go out and get more. Rechargeables, on the other hand, cost a negligible amount of electricity to recharge. And you don't have to go anywhere to buy them when they are drained or wait to have new ones shipped. So you use them as much as you want. And if you're doing something with friends, you lend them out because they cost you nothing. No more conserving batteries just because you don't want to waste money.


Energizer (and other makers) have been doing that for a long, long time. Most people don't know any better so they sell just like the AA's.


It's nothing new!


Exactly! Even back before you could get NiMH batteries, this was common practice with Nicads. Some places (like Radio Shack, I think) even sold both cheaper, low capacity C and D batteries (which were basically AA batteries) in addition to more expensive, full C and D batteries.
 
Last edited:

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
I just ordered 2 adapters in the hopes they will fit my needs. Now to wait the 2 week to get them. sigh

Yeah, I was in your other thread too, that was the first I've seen those, definitely intrigued as I have extra AAs but no Ds, and the only means I have to charge Ds is my C9000 with adapters.
 

N8N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,241
I'm still surprised here because for me the one thing which got me to retire alkalines permanently is their propensity to leak. Prior to LSD cells I agree it was a hassle keeping NiMH charged in lightly used devices but nowadays that's a complete non-issue. All it takes is one ruined device to make the cost of some rechargeables and a charger worthwhile.

YES! I had some alkalines leak in a laser distance finder earlier this year and had I had to replace it it would have cost more than the charger and all the Eneloops that I promptly ordered had I not been able to resuscitate it. I'm done with alkalines, 80% of my stuff is Eneloop powered now and I'm picking away at the rest.
 

BillSWPA

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
670
Location
Southwest PA
My previous experience with rechargeable batteries was many years ago, and quite poor. After reading about batteries on this forum, and also losing some devices to leaking alkaline batteries, I am thinking more and more about moving back towards rechargeables. My biggest concern with switching to rechargeables is making sure that I don't ruin the devices by using higher voltage and/or current rechargeables in a device that was designed around the performance characteristics of alkalines. I would be looking at AA, AAA, and D sizes primarily.
 

Mr Happy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
5,390
Location
Southern California
I thought you had to charge at least 0.3C to be sure that the battery full voltage drop is detected to terminate the charge, so if you are charging an 5000mah D cell you need to charge at rate of 1500ma and this is beyond most normal store consumer chargers, and the safety timer would have to terminate the charge.

The 0.3C rule of thumb is only really true of AA cells. If you try charging a 10 Ah D cell at 0.5 C you will risk damaging it. The typical maximum charge rate for most cells is not more than about 2 A. (The main reason being that C and D cells have a much smaller surface area to volume ratio, so they can't let the heat out so fast. Larger cells have to be charged at lower rates to keep the internal temperature within bounds.)
 
Top