Conversion of an OMS Phantom 10W HID light to LED - help needed

Greeting all,

First of all it should be noted that I have only a basic understanding of circuits. Thus I am here seeking guidance (and to be frank possibly even someone to take this project as a commission).

Background
Anyway, I have an OMS Phantom 10W HID canister light: http://www.omsdive.com/downloads/oms_10w_hid.pdf

The battery pack is comprised of 11x 4/3 NiMh cells for 13.2V and 3500mAh

However, I think that I must have version one of this, because instead of the magnetic reed switch that has been alluded to in a previous post: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?327491-OMS-phantom-HID-10w-repair my light has a mechanical switch that articulates a lever switch http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/D2F-L/?qs=ISjK4nnpKfGN15FPx5TQjg==

It runs the Welch Allyn B10N002 Ballast and I don't know what light. However, this doesn't matter because I would like to convert this to a LED as I am tired of spending so much on these fragile bulbs.

Project
Idea #1: 1x LED with reflector
Reflector: 35mm diameter x 32 mm length: http://dx.com/p/35mm-35mm-aluminum-textured-op-reflector-for-cree-led-emitters-2-pack-14599
LED: Cree XM-L2 U2 12mm Star (cool white): http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S021213
Driver ???

Idea #2: 3x LED using aspherics
LEDs: 3x Cree XM-L2 U2 12mm Star (cool white): http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S021213
Optics: 3x 15mm Optical Glass LED Lamp Lens - 1pc: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020649
Spacer: ???
Driver: ???

Discussion
Idea #1
This would seem to be the easiest, however the big problem that I see in going this route is the power input. Namely that I have a great deal of power that is going to need to be stepped down in order to avoid damaging the LED. The listed specs are 10W and 3A max. I figure that I would probably be running this at or near its max. So my question is (Q1) what diver and what sort of driver do I need? (Q2) Do I need to make a separate resistance circuit?

The other problem would then also be the heat that is going to be present. I do not have any machinery to create an aluminum heat sink. However, this is likely to be a problem regardless of whichever path I take. This problem will necessarily result in me having to contact a custom manufacturer.

Idea #2
This would make a monster of a light and I think I would prefer to undertake this project. For this I would need to find some 15mm o.d. x 13 mm i.d. tubing to use as spacers. The optics say that it has a focal length of 10mm, so I take it that I would need to cut 10mm lengths. (Q3) Do I cut 10mm spacers or is there some other measurement to take into account? Next I figure I would drive these at about 1.4A and 3V (Q4) What driver(s) should be used?

General discussion
I have a 35mm foot print hard limit to fit inside the exterior casing.

Once again this being the first generation there is a large problem: water tightness is maintained by pressing a piece of glass down using a spring washer (it is wavy thin piece of metal) onto an o-ring which is on a spacer. The spacer fit onto the HID lamp. The width of that spring thing is ~3.5mm, thus spacing tolerance is very low.

I am interested in hearing some feedback

(Q5) Is this project even reasonably feasible?

Thanks in advance for your sage advice.

can you draw a profile of headlight with dimensions ?

Yes, this project is very feasible.

You definitely want a buck type switchmode driver. The b3flex or H6CC from Taskled would be good choices, or you might find cheaper ones at places like kaidomain and dealextreme. Ultimately the best choice will depend on your desired operation (modes) and LED configuration.

I think the XM-L is a big LED for a 15mm lens, but maybe others can say more about that. If you are only going to drive them at 1.4A, then I would use XP-G instead of XM-L.

For triples and even quads, Ledil and Carclo make single-piece optics that cover all LEDs, with built-in spacers. You can also buy boards with LEDs mounted that are made to match. That would be the way to go if you want more light than a single XM-L2, unless you want to go with a single SST-90. The SST-90 wouldn't be as efficient, but simpler and brighter.

I have done heaps of 28mm aspheric and XML mods to 10w HID's.
They really do work well together.

Packhorse said:

I have done heaps of 28mm aspheric and XML mods to 10w HID's.
They really do work well together.

Click to expand...

I have seen some of the projects that you have uploaded here Packhorse. They were the primary inspiration behind the project idea #2. However, I did not have enough area inside the torch for a quad set up. Unless I went with either the QuadPod star or similar. I don't like the QuadPod, Indus, or Endor stars, for reasons discussed below.

However, I do not recall having seen any of your projects that utilized a single 28mm aspheric lens posted in your dive light thread.

What I really liked about each of your projects was that the beams were nice and tight and the lights themselves were really bright. From my limited understanding, there are really two ways to get "throw:" reflectors and aspheric lenses. The 35mm reflector seemed like the easiest solution as it would be a perfect fit. The larger aspheric lenses in addition to being thicker also require longer focal distances and space is at a premium. The other problem is just total lumens. The aspheric lens will take a toll and I worry that only using one LED, it will put me back in the 600 lumen range despite starting with the XM-L2 at 10W. Of course now that I have been shown the SST-90, I think that it would be my LED of choice for Idea #1

DIWdiver said:

Yes, this project is very feasible.

You definitely want a buck type switchmode driver. The b3flex or H6CC from Taskled would be good choices, or you might find cheaper ones at places like kaidomain and dealextreme. Ultimately the best choice will depend on your desired operation (modes) and LED configuration.

I think the XM-L is a big LED for a 15mm lens, but maybe others can say more about that. If you are only going to drive them at 1.4A, then I would use XP-G instead of XM-L.

For triples and even quads, Ledil and Carclo make single-piece optics that cover all LEDs, with built-in spacers. You can also buy boards with LEDs mounted that are made to match. That would be the way to go if you want more light than a single XM-L2, unless you want to go with a single SST-90. The SST-90 wouldn't be as efficient, but simpler and brighter.

Click to expand...

At this point I do not think I would really want or need anything more than on/off operation in terms of modes. Both look to be able to fit so either of the recommended drivers work for either application. Great! That is one problem solved.

Now as aforementioned I am definitely not leaning toward adopting the QuadPod, Indus Star, or Endor Star solutions with their associated Carclo optics for the reason that implementing them with the XP-G LEDs you get beam angles of 24 degrees with the XP-G LEDs. I just do not know if that will be satisfactory. I think that I would be wanting something more in the range of 12-16, but this being my first project feel free to enlighten me. On this note, I am also abandoning the reflector idea.

However, abandoning that creates some new problems, namely centering the large aspheric lens.

Ok, as promised here is a crude obviously not to scale technical diagram. I am having problems posting images so: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7gV1Qi16tvQOFliT2pCbGtLSkE/edit?usp=sharing

The XM-L2 with Ahorton aspheric lens will be brighter than the 10W HID. Check the thread of my MJ-852 mod with XM-L2. The lens I used is not as good as the Ahorton, but the light still equals the 10W HID. And I think it was only running at 2A.

The efficacy of the SST-90 will be well below that of the Gen2 Crees, and the driver running 9A at 3.9V off the 12V battery will have much lower efficiency than a Taskled driver running triples.

Unless you are trying to greatly improve upon the light output of the HID, either Cree option would be plenty.
You have gobs of depth in the head, so no worries there. I think your main problem is going to be getting the heat from the LED to the head. I've been thinking for a while about how to mount 70-100W of LEDs in a 3" ID tube. Plan A at the moment is to thermal epoxy (or maybe braze) an aluminum ring in the tube, and screw an aluminum plate to the ring.


At much lower power levels, and since you have lots of depth to play with, you could get away with an aluminum slug that fits close and is slathered with thermal compound. You could use a set screw to lock it into the head. The screw would be parallel to the axis of the slug, and well off-center. It would have a conical tip, which when advanced would force a second piece in a cross-drilled hole to push out to the wall, locking everything in place.

So, how did the conversion work out? What did you end up using for parts?

Dawsona2 said:

So, how did the conversion work out? What did you end up using for parts?

Click to expand...

Greetings,

Status: most parts received in need of mounting heat sink and assembly; sitting in my closet in a box.

So, unfortunately, I have not yet actually done the conversion. I ordered all of the parts, an aspherical lens, a b3flex buck driver with heat sink from taskled, and a cree xm-L2 U2 on a 12mm star. However, I lost heart when calling machinists to make a heat sink/mounting platform for the the led and driver.

Oh, one other thing caused me to lose heart. I was attempting a repair of another old incandescent 4xAA underwater flashlight. This was just supposed to be a simple soldering operation of the battery contact to the electronics. I discovered that my soldering techniques have atrophied in the 8 years since I last used them. Thus since my technique was so poor, I worried about attempting to do this with something that actually mattered.

I also got a new led underwater light from UK, after my old Xenon one flooded and they lost it while processing (their system had inadvertently issued two of the same tracking numbers). So the urgency just was no longer there.

Anyway, that is how things stand.

Thank you for your interest, my apologies if this is disappointing.

From my experiences I can warmly recommend the 35mm (fits like a MR11 bulb!) Fraen frc-n1-oe2b Reflector for low and mid vis diving. It focusses very tight with the most aesthetical transition to the low spill I ever saw!
Additionally the fraen frc-m1-oe2b (m1!) is a very good medium reflector for high vis diving and has the same measurements so you can exchange them for the cause.

CosmoKramer said:

From my experiences I can warmly recommend the 35mm (fits like a MR11 bulb!) Fraen frc-n1-oe2b Reflector for low and mid vis diving. It focusses very tight with the most aesthetical transition to the low spill I ever saw!
Additionally the fraen frc-m1-oe2b (m1!) is a very good medium reflector for high vis diving and has the same measurements so you can exchange them for the cause.

Click to expand...

Which LED did you use with these reflectors?
Would the narrow reflector work well with a cree XML2 or MTG2?

Hi Johan,

I use it with XM-L2 T6 (dunno which bin). Works very well!
However MT-G2 and the brand new XP-L (both on noctigon) are on their way for testing... I always have to fumble around

btw Fresnel arrived savely...