Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill pack

Negeltu

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It is a 12volt nicad pack. I disassembled it and found 10 ALMOST C size NiCad batteries. They fit a few lights I have perfectly. I tested their current with a resistor and they are all good..except one...which is totally dead.

My Question is this... I have a radioshack NiCad charger..that charges 1400mAh C cells in 8 - 9 hours with 240mA charging current...How would I figure out how long to charge these... uhmm... ?sub? c cells...
 

DBrier

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You are right, you have some sub C cells. They are probably unmarked, so it would be difficult to tell what Mah rating they are.
If you like the sub C cells, look into the RC car world, they have some very nice sub C NiMh cells that are in the 3000 Mah range and designed for high rate discharge.
 

Ginseng

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

DBrier,

Do you have any tips for good sources from the RC world?

Wilkey
 

ubermensch

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Negeltu, what flashlights do they fit into? I busted open a Makita pack and have had these things sitting around not being used. They all have this weird metal braid soldered onto them, which I can't get off.
 

unnerv

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

If you are looking for sub-c's battery station has great deal on their cpf page
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

ubermensch,

Just clip them with scissors and bend the tab over to make buttons with /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

So there is no SAFE way for me to charge these batts? It would be a pity for them to go to waste. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I wish there was a way I could tell what their capacities are.
 

paulr

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

You should use a smart charger that senses the voltage drop that nicads exhibit when they're almost fully charged. Maha C777 is a popular one ( www.thomas-distributing.com ).
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

I did a search for the battery packs model number and I get 3 different Ah ratings. One is 1.5Ah...another is 1.7Ah..and the last one is 2.0Ah. The one I have is a few years old...So I assume it is one of the lower capacity ones.

paulr,

I have a smaller NiCad/NiMH charger that charges AA/AAA cells. It says on it's packaging that it senses the charge of the individual batteries and charges them accordingly to prevent overcharging. Is there someway I could make an adapter and hook it up to the batteries? I would prefer to use the Radioshack charger. The smaller charger that I have is a Maxxell.
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

If it helps... the charger for it says "Output 1.9A" And that it charges the Pack in One hour... It would seem to me that there is a way to use those figures to calculate the capacity of the sub c's.. Anyone know?
 

DBrier

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
DBrier,

Do you have any tips for good sources from the RC world?

Wilkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Just search for "RC batteries" and lots of sites show up. The GP 3300 NiMh cell seem to be the top dog right now. http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ragebattery&Product_Code=GP330SCHC-2M6
The only down side is that they are NOT button top batteries, you have to solder them together.
I have been out of RCs for a few years.
Someone will have to do some measureing, I'll bet that 4 of those in a 3C mag body should be close. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
These RC batteries are designed for high discharge too. You can drain those packs in 20-30 minutes in a race.

Hmmmm, I have some old NiCad Sub C's upstairs and TT 3C in my car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Yeah...it's an ok fit in my craftsman... which takes 3 d batts. Would probably be perfect in a 3 c cell light. I really would like to make use of the batteries. I have a whole other pack I can take apart. There has to be a way to figure out their capacity based on the output of their charger and the charge time.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I can't afford to buy anything right now.
 

Steelwolf

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Thinking logically, you have 10 sub C all in series to produce 12V. You have a charger which should output a bit over 12V (probably 13.8V) to charge the cells. The charger says it pumps 1.9A and will charge the cells in 1 hour. The 1.9A will pass through all the cells in series, so expect the capacity of those cells to be close to 1.9Ah. Probably 1.7Ah, the little bit of extra time is probably just to round it to something easily remembered and to ensure the cells are topped off, without excessive time on the charger to cause overcharging problems.

BTW, they could be 2.0Ah cells if DeWalt decides to play it safe and give a little more capacity to prevent overcharging problems. A highly possible scenario from an industry leader eager to ensure that its products don't fail prematurely.

Knowing that the upper limit would be 2.0Ah and the more likely capacity would be 1.7Ah, you could then do a first charge assuming it is 2.0Ah (That would be about 8hr 20min on that 240mA charger you have. 8hr 30min should be fine to ensure complete charge.) Allow it to cool to room temperature after charging.

Next, we can try and perform the standard Energizer battery test to check its capacity. This test will discharge the cell at the rate of 1/5C until the voltage of the cell drops below 1.0V. We assume it is 2.0Ah capacity, so 1/5C is 0.4Ah. We need to discharge at a rate of 0.4A. This can be achieved with a 3R resistor. Use a resistor that can handle at least 1.2W.

If it takes closer to 5hrs, you have a 2.0Ah cell. If it takes less than 4hr 15min you have a 1.7Ah cell. You should probably perform this test a couple of times and with a few different cells to average the results.

Or to make it simpler on yourself, just go out and buy a smart charger that works on delta V.
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

I can't afford to buy anything right now.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But your suggestion was very very helpful. Thank you.
 

turbodog

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Dewalt cells that are about 2 years old are not going to be over 2ah in capacity. Only recently have manufacturers started putting cells with over 2ah in packs.

On a side note, go to interstate battery/etc and you can buy single cells for repairing your pack. The cell will probably cost about $5 or so. I am sure they will be able to determine the proper size cell to use.

On another side note. R/C car battery packs are NOT what I would use in a flashlight. R/C cells tend to be the cream of the crop in quality, capacity, and VOLTAGE. Properly charged, they will be significantly higher voltage than a regular nicd/nimh cell. Enough so that you run a decent risk of popping your bulb/etc.
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

turbodog,

I didn't think that they would be 2Ah. And if I used them in a flashlight I would use a resistor to limit the current depending on what the cells read on the meter.
 

MrAl

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Hello there,

The Radio Shack charger can charge your cells just fine.

The rating of most sub C NiCd cells is about 1.1 to 2.2
ampere hour.

To determine the rating, charge at 240ma for 15 or so hours.
After the charge is complete take the batteries out and
wait about an hour or so. After the hour is up, take one
of the batteries and measure the voltage. It should be
greater then 1.2 and probably less then 1.4v. Connect
a 10 ohm resistor across this battery and also keep
the voltmeter connected across the battery so you can
monitor the voltage as the cell charge decreases.
Start a timer or stopwatch or check a wall clock for the
time. Keep the resistor and meter connected and note
the time that the voltage drops to 0.90 volts.
Once the voltage drops to 0.90 volts, note the timer time
and record this in hours.

The approximate rating is 0.12 times the time in hours.
This means that:

10 hours the cell has a 1.2 Ah rating,
15 hours the cell has a 1.8 Ah rating,
20 hours the cell has a 2.4 Ah rating.

This should give you a good enough idea how good the cells
are performing, and you can do this test with each
battery to see if any are getting too old to be practical
anymore.

NOTES:
The resistor can be a 1/2 watt carbon type.
Make sure the connections to the battery during the test
are good and dont become intermittently disconnected. You
might need a battery holder or something.


Take care,
Al
 

Negeltu

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Al,

That's exactly what I was looking for! Your explanation is the easiest for me to understand. Thanks alot! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Steelwolf

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Al still has the edge in making it look simple. Hats off to you sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DBrier

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

I did some sizing last night. The only thing that sub C and C batteries have in common is the letter C. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
Sub C are a little thinner and a little shorter. 4 sub C in a 3 cell light is about 1/2 cell too long.
I still think they would be a good power source, but you may have to custom make the body.
This is the right place.
 

RussH

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Re: Took the cells out of a DeWalt Cordless Drill

Sub C is AKA 2/3C. I do believe they are slightly thinner than C tho. Many nicads have gotten a little thicker over the years as they have added capacity, and they have always varied from brand to brand.

I had four batteries at one time for my 12v Ryobi drill. As they failed over the last several years, I started taking 'good' cells from one battery to repair the others. A few months ago, the last one died. 2 of the batteries came from a drill that a friend of mine burned up. This drill is 12 years or more old now & although the new batteries will work, they won't charge with my old charger. I haven't yet figured out why, I just use my DeWalt drill.
 
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