AA vs 123 - info request

thenikjones · Oct 5, 2013

I am thinking of getting a "head" to put on an old E1E, was planning on Haiku 1 x 123 but now thinking, I have a number of Surefire in this format, why not go for a 1 x AA instead? I'm also thinking that a Mule might be better for what I use a torch for (working by, looking for items in rooms/vehicles, etc)

I'd be grateful if anyone can comment on:

1. if there a significant downgrade in output by moving from 123 to AA head?
2. Just to confirm - running the AA head on a 123 cell won't hurt it ( will be buying the AA pack a a later date)
3. What is the total length of the AA mule and the AA Haiku?

On a final note, is the diamond etched clip available with the tripod thread?

TIA for your help.

archimedes · Oct 5, 2013

thenikjones said:
I am thinking of getting a "head" to put on an old E1E, was planning on Haiku 1 x 123 but now thinking, I have a number of Surefire in this format, why not go for a 1 x AA instead? I'm also thinking that a Mule might be better for what I use a torch for (working by, looking for items in rooms/vehicles, etc)

I'd be grateful if anyone can comment on:

1. if there a significant downgrade in output by moving from 123 to AA head?
2. Just to confirm - running the AA head on a 123 cell won't hurt it ( will be buying the AA pack a a later date)
3. What is the total length of the AA mule and the AA Haiku?

On a final note, is the diamond etched clip available with the tripod thread?

TIA for your help.

1 - yes, from about 200 to 85 lumens

2 - yes, although efficiency (runtime) will be (much) less

3 - hmm, not sure :shrug: (sorry)

Threaded clips are available ... etching possibly by request ?

scout24 · Oct 5, 2013

1. There are less lumens coming out of the AA head, it's noticeable but not pronounced if that makes sense.

2. 123 cell runs an AA head nicely.

3. I'll post measurements later if someone doesn't beat me to it...

I think archimedes was posting while I was typing!!!

nbp · Oct 5, 2013

AA Haiku is 4 5/16 and the AA Mule is 3 3/4.

thenikjones · Oct 6, 2013

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

tangfj · Nov 1, 2013

archimedes said:
1 - yes, from about 200 to 85 lumens

2 - yes, although efficiency (runtime) will be (much) less

3 - hmm, not sure :shrug: (sorry)

Threaded clips are available ... etching possibly by request ?

On lumen rating, is that true for ALL 123 vs AA heads (nichia, xml, etc)? I just got the Haiku and Mule AA heads and was wondering the same... basically wondering if I should have gotten the 3s versions instead if they were going to be significantly brighter?

nbp · Nov 1, 2013

3S is short for 3 speed (3 levels) which all Don's light engines are, so that seems to create confusion now that people refer to the 3v+ as a 3S and not the AA converters as 3S, which they are also. :thinking: I'd like to see a better way to distinguish, like "low voltage" and "high voltage" or something. I don't know.

Anyways, yes, the low voltage AA converter will be lower output than the high voltage converter for all emitter options as far as I know.

McGizmo · Nov 1, 2013

When the 3S converter was developed, it was the only converter with three speeds so the designation of 3S made sense. Unfortunately now with two other three speed converters involved its designation is misleading. I am not sure what a better name would be and renaming it would just add another level of confusion.

tangfj · Nov 2, 2013

For those interested here is what Don wrote me in my email correspondence. It was very helpful to me in understanding the difference in output between 3s and AA LE's. Hope you don't mind Don!

"The 3S converter does drive the LED harder (higher current) than the AA converter and difference from 85 lumen to 200 lumen is true in the case of an XM-L LED but it is not the case for the Nichia LED's. I prefer to drive the Nichia at 500 mA on the 3S converter and the AA converter drives the LED at 300 mA. The difference in lumens is not as great between the two."

Sent from my iPhone. using Tapatalk

OneBigDay · Jan 6, 2014

Hi All! With the announcement of the XP-G2 as an offering, I am considering what I would want as a power pak if I picked up a Haiku. This thread actually answered a few of my questions, but I am still going in circles. If anyone could answer some of these questions, I would appreciate it.

The terminology I understand is...
that the "3S" converter is optimized for a CR123 primary cell (3.0v), but will accept and handle voltage up to one li-on (4.2v).
The "AA" converter is optimized for a single AA cell (1.5v), but also can handle 2xAA (3.0v), a 14500 primary (from Titanium Innovations/Battery Junction @ 3.0v), or a 14500 li-ion (4.2v).

The benefit of the 3S is that it is brighter.

1) Will a single AA battery will work with the 3S converter? If yes, what is the output, do all modes still work?
2) On the AA converter, the benefit from a 2xAA pak (assuming I am running 2x eneloop) is only run time, not output, correct? Is the run time double or close to it?
3) The AA converter seems to be the best of both worlds (1.5v & 4.2v capability and everything in beetween), with the only downside that the output is reduced. Correct?
4) 18350's do not fit in the 123 pak, correct?
5) Adjustments to either driver/converter are not available. For example if I wanted to run the AA converter at 600-700mA max instead of 300mA, is that an option?

Thanks for any inputs guys.

McGizmo · Jan 6, 2014

OneBigDay said:
Hi All! With the announcement of the XP-G2 as an offering, I am considering what I would want as a power pak if I picked up a Haiku. This thread actually answered a few of my questions, but I am still going in circles. If anyone could answer some of these questions, I would appreciate it.

The terminology I understand is...
that the "3S" converter is optimized for a CR123 primary cell (3.0v), but will accept and handle voltage up to one li-on (4.2v).
The "AA" converter is optimized for a single AA cell (1.5v), but also can handle 2xAA (3.0v), a 14500 primary (from Titanium Innovations/Battery Junction @ 3.0v), or a 14500 li-ion (4.2v).

The benefit of the 3S is that it is brighter.

1) Will a single AA battery will work with the 3S converter? If yes, what is the output, do all modes still work?
2) On the AA converter, the benefit from a 2xAA pak (assuming I am running 2x eneloop) is only run time, not output, correct? Is the run time double or close to it?
3) The AA converter seems to be the best of both worlds (1.5v & 4.2v capability and everything in beetween), with the only downside that the output is reduced. Correct?
4) 18350's do not fit in the 123 pak, correct?
5) Adjustments to either driver/converter are not available. For example if I wanted to run the AA converter at 600-700mA max instead of 300mA, is that an option?

Thanks for any inputs guys.

Let me try to answer these.
1) 3S converter needs a minimum input voltage around 2.5 V - 2.8 V or so. No dice on an AA.
2) 2xAA will basically double runtime over 1xAA. There may be added increase in run time due to better efficiency at higher voltage on 2xAA but that's a guess.
3) when input voltage is greater than V-in of the LED ( 3 - 3.5V), excess voltage is wasted as generated heat. That is to say run time may be the same on 3.5 and 4.2 volt input but 4.2 volt will make flashlight hotter.
4)18350's do not fit in 123 pak. 18 mm diameter batteries don'e fit in any of my E-series McClickie paks.
5) The AA converter has a max output current at 300 mA and can not be adjusted higher.

OneBigDay · Jan 6, 2014

Excellent. Thanks Very much for the reply.

Now I just need to decide what voltage range I want. The ability to use AA's is really appealing, but so is the increased output of the 3S driver. It's great to have some options.

thenikjones · Jan 6, 2014

OneBigDay, my comments for what they are worth (I started this thread)

I have a few CR123 torches so went for the AA in order to have flexibility (I have an old CR123 body that I can use for a shorter overall length). The AA body is very ergonomic. I understand I can use it with a LiON cell (14500?) as a 3V alternative to a CR123 but it seems more hassle than it is worth.

If I was starting from scratch now I would get the 3S Haiku with XP-G2 LED - middle ground between the XM-L and 119 Hi CRI, it seems - with Cr123 body, and get the 2xAA body at some point. This gives me a short torch for everyday carry and ability to use rechargeable AA cells when based at home. You live and learn. The mule is great and perfect for indoor use, but less useful than I hoped for various outdoor uses (albeit great when working on my car)

As it is my next purchase will be 3S Haiku XP-G2 with 2xAA body - eventually. I may sell my AA Hi CRI Haiku, I may not.

Good luck with your decision.

OneBigDay · Jan 10, 2014

nm...

jamesmtl514 · Jun 8, 2014

Excellent thread. Bumping for others

Trip Miller · Aug 22, 2014

Yes good content re bump. I am looking for a Mule or Sundrop Head & LE as I have a spare 2 x aa....so I wanted to see if the 1.5V "AA" converter makes sense for me but I think the lower output is not worth the trade off in my case...

bmstrong · Aug 22, 2014

The physical body size and shape of the one AA pack and the Mule head coupled with the beam of the Haiku does not exist, correct?

RedLED · Sep 4, 2014

It is nice to have options with batteries, this system gets cooler, and cooler!

Trip Miller · Sep 4, 2014

bmstrong said:
The physical body size and shape of the one AA pack and the Mule head coupled with the beam of the Haiku does not exist, correct?

Haiku beam is the haiku if you follow. So the answer is not that I have seen but maybe someone else has modified something in a Mule head with a reflector but I doubt there is room etc. not as an offering from Don however.

Trip Miller · Sep 4, 2014

RedLed said:
It is nice to have options with batteries, this system gets cooler, and cooler!

Yes I agree. I have this orphan 2 x AA and keep thinking I might end up with something that is a 6V and I can go Li Ion 14500 x 2 but as I only have a 1 x 123 other body that limits the 6V head to this battery pack...so then I find I need a third..

so back to my guns....I need a 3S Mule or Sundrop Complete head please......

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AA vs 123 - info request

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