Philips Lamps Now at Pep Boys

Lightdoctor

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So, I went by my local Pep Boys (Everett, WA) and noticed that they are now selling Philips automotive lamps. What an improvement over the Sylvania junk they were selling before. Here are a few things that I noticed. First, the honesty of the graphs on the back of the packaging. On the crystal vision, they show it having the same lumen output as a regular performance lamp. Sylvania would not do this with their silver star. Second, they are selling an LED 1156 & 1157 drop-in lamp where they say on the packaging to check their web site to see if it is road legal for your vehicle. What??? Third, PB has in their display, 9011 & 9012 HIR lamps...I was really surprised by this...first time seeing them in a brick & mortar store.
 
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-Virgil-

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I read something the other day saying Philips and Sylvania both have come out with LED replacements for 7" round sealed beams (Sylvania is calling theirs "Zevo") and launched them at the SEMA show. I looked around on the web and didn't find anything more specific or any pictures. It will be interesting to see what these lamps actually are. Will they be in-house design/build? In-house design/outsourced build? Or just somebody else's lamps repackaged (GE is selling Truck-Lite's LED sealed beams, for example). Guess we'll have to wait and see.

The LED 1156/7 bulbs you saw are Philips-branded? That's interesting. I don't see anything about those, though it wouldn't surprise me for a couple of reasons. For one, Philips already has some LED replacements for various dome light bulbs (DE3022 and C5W stick in my mind, though I could be wrong). And Philips, like Osram, is working hard in Europe on real, true, safe, legal, proper LED bulbs. They're nothing like any of the "LED bulbs" you can find now. They have a high-power LED in the cap (base) of the bulb, and a light guide configured to emit light at the same location and in the same "shape" as a filament bulb. I've seen polar plots of the light output of filament vs. LED, and it sure appears they've managed to whip the light distribution issue.

These will put out white light except for the ones to replace bulbs that are supposed to put out amber or red light, because under UN Regulation 37 it's not allowed to have bulbs of different output or power characteristics be physically interchangeable (though as a matter of practicality this is not applied to bulbs below about 10w, hence R5W and R10W are physically the same, and the white W5W and amber WY5W are physically the same...). So for that reason, in the ECE markets they won't be selling white, red, and amber P21Ws, just white P21Ws and amber PY21Ws and red PR21Ws, each on its own unique base just like the filament versions. For now, they've got C5W and R5W pretty well ready to go technically, but it's going to take awhile for new regulations to be written or old ones amended to permit them.

Signal bulbs aren't directly regulated by Federal law in the NAFTA region like they are in Europe, so it seems likely we might see this product line here before they see it over there. But unless they are way very much farther along in the development than they were two months ago, it's going to be awhile before we see this kind of bulb with the output needed to replace 1156, 1157, etc.

9011 and 9012 don't surprise me, there are enough vehicles on the road using these now that there's a market for readily-available replacements.

I agree with you that Philips' packaging and product claims tend to be more honest than those of another major brand. Also, Philips' product line has a lot more genuinely better-performing bulb options, compared to that other brand that has mostly different flavors of bling.
 

Alaric Darconville

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And Philips, like Osram, is working hard in Europe on real, true, safe, legal, proper LED bulbs. They're nothing like any of the "LED bulbs" you can find now. They have a high-power LED in the cap (base) of the bulb, and a light guide configured to emit light at the same location and in the same "shape" as a filament bulb. I've seen polar plots of the light output of filament vs. LED, and it sure appears they've managed to whip the light distribution issue.

This is something I've "invented" in my head. My guess is it'd take extremely thin light guides to produce the desired output pattern without also introducing a lot of optical noise from reflections and shadowing. I'd be interested in seeing what these "drop-ins" really look like.

Granted, if they pull this off, then it'll be a victory for the "wut about INNOVATION?!?" people out there, who will think that just because Philips or Osram pull it off, that *any* and *all* LED drop-ins will be (in their little minds) legal. Then they'll extrapolate that it must also mean any HID "kit" is legal...
 
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Hamilton Felix

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This is good news. For some reason I haven't thought about Pep Boys. I think more about O'Reilly's (where my cousin is a Regional Manager and knows how to find things) or Autozone when I think about chain stores. My wife works in Everett and I get there fairly often. Just googled and see Pep Boys is down on what we called the Broadway Cutoff years before Everett Mall Way was thought of. I'll have to check them out, maybe see how their 9011 and 9012 prices compare to mail order.

Sedro-Wooley, Burlington or Mount Vernon is closer to home these days. Autozone had a pretty good assortment of switches and electrical bits, last time I looked. Being on the upper Skagit, I do a lot of mail order, but it's good to be able to handle and see an item up close.

I will be looking closely at these new LED replacement bulbs.
 

MichaelW

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Popped in PepBoys for some 0w-30 for the lawnmower.
The 9011 was $20, and 9012 was $35. Ouch
 

Hamilton Felix

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Wow, pays to comparison shop. Since Amazon has a base in my state, they do charge sales tax. But if you can add in sales tax and shipping and still come in lower than a local store, it's hard to shop locally - especially if you live a 50-100 mile drive from the store. Figure in the gas for going to the store, and half the time you could pay the shipping on an order.
 

Lightdoctor

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I would only buy these bulbs at PB in a pinch. For me it's either Candlepower or Amazon for top tier auto bulbs.
As to the LED drop-ins, I've kind of considered buying a set just to check them out, but for almost $60 USD, I'm not interested in throwing the money away.
 
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-Virgil-

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I feel the same -- I'll wait until the packaging isn't full of disclaimers about "interior use only" etc.
 

-Virgil-

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This is something I've "invented" in my head.

Me too.

My guess is it'd take extremely thin light guides to produce the desired output pattern without also introducing a lot of optical noise from reflections and shadowing.

Probably right.

I'd be interested in seeing what these "drop-ins" really look like.

Dan Stern showed me some images from a state-of-development paper. I'd post them here, but they're not mine to share; you might check with him and see what the share/copy status is on them.

if they pull this off, then it'll be a victory for the "wut about INNOVATION?!?" people out there, who will think that just because Philips or Osram pull it off, that *any* and *all* LED drop-ins will be (in their little minds) legal.

Yeah, I guess that would be roughly equal to today's blue-bulb market: "Lookie me! I have euro-blue headlights, too, just like a BMW!".
 

wws944

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I was at my local Pep Boys yesterday and saw the new Philips line. Sylvania is completely gone from the shelves. Almost bought a pair of the Philips 9003 +100 bulbs...

Has anyone tried the new Philips 1156 LED replacement yet? A review would be nice. (And yes, they apparently do meet SAE standards - at least in some cars. See: http://philipsxtremevisionled.com)
 

-Virgil-

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I've recently seen some (non-public) test data on those Philips 1156 and 1157 LED bulbs, and they look really good. I don't yet know how they do in lamps other than the ones that were used for the tests to generate the data, but I am a great deal more optimistic than I was before I saw the data.
 

Ceilidh

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Regarding the Philips 1156 LED:
I'm doubtful they'll soon test the 1156 in a 2000 VW Golf 4 tail assembly (not with the Golf 7 coming out -- my car will soon be 3 generations obsolete). Given that, were the Philips "Tested With Luminaires" chart to someday fill up with dozens of approved applications, how advisable or inadvisable would it be to try the 1156 in a car not listed on the chart? Would it be a matter of...

(A) Worth a try.

...or....

(B) Don't do it! It'll be illegal and unsafe (and annoying for those behind you)!

(The Golf 4 stop, rear turn, backup, and rear fog functions all take a P21W, and with advice from this forum I've put the 796 in the backup lights and have upgraded to the Honda 34903-SF1-A01 in the others. I'm very happy with those bulbs, so I'm just asking out of curiosity (and because of LED rise time). Cheers and thanks.) =)
 
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-Virgil-

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Tough to answer definitively. The packaging they're selling these bulbs in says "legal in most vehicles", but the list of tested vehicles is pretty short as of yet. I think you're right that they probably won't get around to testing older models anytime soon. The trouble with a "worth a try" answer is that most people don't have the equipment or expertise necessary to evaluate the performance of automotive lighting equipment. Just looking at the lamp is nowhere near good enough.
 

Ceilidh

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Thanks -- I was afraid it'd be something like that (and I definitely don't have the equipment or expertise to evaluate the performance on any car)!

It'd be nice to have my signal and brake lights flash on the way OEM LED lights do; if you ever come to the conclusion that these or any LED "replacements" are likely safe to use in older untested cars, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'll stay with the Honda bulbs, and Best Wishes for 2014. :)
 

-Virgil-

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I am keeping an eye on this product line, and hope to eventually do some testing of my own. As I say, I'm optimistic.
 

wws944

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I hope that being marketed by Philips, the LED 1156 and 1157 replacements would be pretty good. (I have a lot of their LED products in my house.)

My old 944 uses 7506 (P21W) bulbs in the rear for turn, stop and backup. It also uses 7528 (P21/5W) in front for the marker and turn signal. These are more or less equivalent to 1156 and 1157. Not sure if Philips would qualify a near 30 year old car model, but one could always hope. I have already tried one (non Philips) LED 1156 replacement and it was clearly not as bright as the 7506. (Yes, it was a red LED shining through a red tail light lens.) So the 7506 went right back in.
 

Hamilton Felix

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If the LED replacements for 1156 and 1157 are indeed optically compatible and legal as replacements - and physically no larger, then I would be interested for my motorcycle and one or two of my older vehicles.

I know we've come a long way in a few years. Before I was at this forum and learned the optical and legal problems with LED replacements, I looked into 1157 replacements for my bike (motorcyclists often deal with tiny charging systems and look for ways to save a few watts). Almost all the replacements I found did not actually put out as much light - except for one, which was an LED cluster so big that I'd have to cut away much of my reflector to even get it into my rear-loading tail light. These days we have single high output LED lamps. But I still wonder how they get the LED replacement to radiate the same pattern of light. So far, the LED replacement bulbs I have seen are only suitable for RV interior lighting.
 

barbagris

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If the LED replacements for 1156 and 1157 are indeed optically compatible and legal as replacements - and physically no larger, then I would be interested for my motorcycle and one or two of my older vehicles....I looked into 1157 replacements for my bike (motorcyclists often deal with tiny charging systems and look for ways to save a few watts). Almost all the replacements I found did not actually put out as much light.
I'm with you on this. What's more it beats me why so many modern bikes have such weedy indicators to start with. Most seem to have 10W indicators whereas older bikes had 21W.

I've also tried homologated LED replacement lights - in general they're ornaments. Most LED "twin filament" replacements seem not to offer as big a difference tail/brake as I'd like.
 

Alaric Darconville

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I'm with you on this. What's more it beats me why so many modern bikes have such weedy indicators to start with. Most seem to have 10W indicators whereas older bikes had 21W.
Because they *can*.

From § 571.108 Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.
S5.1.1.7 A motorcycle turn signal lamp need meet only one-half of the minimum photometric values specified in Table 1 and Table 3 of SAE
J588 NOV84 Turn Signal Lamps.

Higher-wattage bulbs means higher demands on the electrical system, which means building a more capable electrical system. All that costs *money*, y'know.

I've also tried homologated LED replacement lights - in general they're ornaments. Most LED "twin filament" replacements seem not to offer as big a difference tail/brake as I'd like.

"Homologated" has a certain meaning that does not apply here, unless you mean they are indeed ECE type-approved. But if they're as ornamental as you say they are, then they certainly don't have ECE type approval (especially if they're just LED "drop-ins", not complete LED taillamp assemblies).
 
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