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Thread: Modern headlight tint distracting

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    Default Modern headlight tint distracting

    I understand that headlight tint has been discussed to the nth degree to determine exactly what tint is best for seeing objects at night, depth perception, color rendition, etc. However, I'm referring to the effect it has on nearby vehicles. Maybe it's just me, but I find modern HID and LED headlights/DRLs distracting. Some brands are more annoying than others.

    I think the color of the headlight is too far to the blue side of the spectrum. I estimate it's somewhere around 5000-6000K. While this may be "true daylight", it looks blue at night. They stand out greatly from the rest of traffic. I'm willign to bet there are some models that are borderline illegal from the factory, and perhaps the test method needs updating as lights evolve.

    My car has HIDs with stock 35W 4300K bulbs, and even they look a little blue to me. Based on my bicycle light projects, I find that a cooler tint diminishes clarity and depth perception. It also is more annoying to look at as a bystander.


    Is there a reason why modern headlight manufacturers have chosen to use this tint of light? Maybe someone wouldn't buy car A with "yellow" headlights even if it put out just as much light as car B with "cool" headlights?

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
    I understand that headlight tint has been discussed to the nth degree to determine exactly what tint is best for seeing objects at night, depth perception, color rendition, etc. I find modern HID and LED headlights/DRLs distracting.
    It has been discussed quite a bit in other threads here in one way or another:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...s-are-annoying
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...lue-headlights
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ights-are-blue
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...color-spectrum


    Quote Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
    I think the color of the headlight is too far to the blue side of the spectrum. I estimate it's somewhere around 5000-6000K. While this may be "true daylight", it looks blue at night
    The problem with "true daylight" is that there are at least ten different SPDs and color temps of light that are true daylight. Sunny with blue skies? True daylight. Sunrise with flaming fireball of orange (sailors take warning!)? True daylight. Partly cloudy? True daylight. Overcast? True daylight. (Seeing the pattern?)

    Is there a reason why modern headlight manufacturers have chosen to use this tint of light? Maybe someone wouldn't buy car A with "yellow" headlights even if it put out just as much light as car B with "cool" headlights?
    DUH, because, like COOL, duh. TUNERZ, man! HID=BETTER! HID=LUXURY! BLUER=MORE LUXURY!

    Do you want a nice, crisp, cold, refreshing Coca-Cola, or do you want this fizzy brown sugar water?
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 02-16-2014 at 05:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    The high color temp is a characteristic of the more efficient HID burners, not a deliberate choice. likewise, high color temp LED emitters are more efficient than neutral or warm tints. I'd prefer a nice 219-like headlight but I've heard repeatedly that studies don't show a great disadvantage to low CRI or high color temp vehicle headlamps.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    The problem with "true daylight" is that there are at least ten different SPDs and color temps of light that are true daylight. Sunny with blue skies? True daylight. Sunrise with flaming fireball of orange (sailors take warning!)? True daylight. Partly cloudy? True daylight. Overcast? True daylight. (Seeing the pattern?)


    DUH, because, like COOL, duh. TUNERZ, man! HID=BETTER! HID=LUXURY! BLUER=MORE LUXURY!

    Do you want a nice, crisp, cold, refreshing Coca-Cola, or do you want this fizzy brown sugar water?
    You speak of ricers, not tuners :P

    when most people think of daylight, I believe they are speaking of the relatively unhampered noon day sun...I can imagine ssunlight might look a tad bluer in space because there are no atmospheric particles to hinder the blue frequency. Perhaps 5k CCT really is true sunlight and our eyes aren't used to seeing it.

    On a side note, I still believe that CCT and CRI have something to do with the near invisible spectrums of IR and UV.
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by dc38 View Post
    when most people think of daylight, I believe they are speaking of the relatively unhampered noon day sun...I can imagine ssunlight might look a tad bluer in space because there are no atmospheric particles to hinder the blue frequency. Perhaps 5k CCT really is true sunlight and our eyes aren't used to seeing it.
    At what latitude? In which season?

    On a side note, I still believe that CCT and CRI have something to do with the near invisible spectrums of IR and UV.
    Near-invisible means it's visible. CRI has more to do with our red, green, and blue color perception, and the spectral power distribution of the light source. (Fun fact! This is not yellow! It looks yellow, but your monitor isn't emitting yellow light.)

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    Flashaholic* dc38's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    I didn't think about latitude...hm....

    i learned before grade school that monitors and light related imaging generally operate on RGB rather than tangible pigmented RYB (with some exceptions, one of which is that led tv with RGBY) Also, our eyeballs aren't meant to look at light SOURCES for extended periods of time, so the perceived colors from a monitor may vary slightly than what is seen in real life, even given the proper color correction.
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    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by dc38 View Post
    i learned before grade school that monitors and light related imaging generally operate on RGB rather than tangible pigmented RYB (with some exceptions, one of which is that led tv with RGBY)
    I'd really like to see one of the RGBY monitors, so I can go "Oh, myyy" in my best George Takei voice.

    I think Amazon needs to produce a non-backlit Kindle that uses CMY "e-ink". That would be pretty snazzy.

    Also, our eyeballs aren't meant to look at light SOURCES for extended periods of time, so the perceived colors from a monitor may vary slightly than what is seen in real life, even given the proper color correction.
    They constantly adjust everything. You get the monitor set up "just so" and then the light through the window changes with the time of day or the season or a passing cloud. Another reason that CRI and SPD don't really factor that much into our night driving experience.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    The white-space allows for up to 6500K or so CCT, at night. That needs to be trimmed way down to 4750K or so.
    The problem is the sun is overhead, not a low angle into people's eyes. and is nothing but marketing department drivel that 'closer to daylight' is appropriate for nocturnal driving.

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    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
    The white-space allows for up to 6500K or so CCT, at night. That needs to be trimmed way down to 4750K or so.
    The problem is the sun is overhead, not a low angle into people's eyes. and is nothing but marketing department drivel that 'closer to daylight' is appropriate for nocturnal driving.
    The CIE colorspace for white is:
    x = 0.310 (blue boundary)
    x = 0.500 (yellow boundary)
    y = 0.150 + 0.640x (green boundary)
    y = 0.050 + 0.750x (purple boundary)
    y = 0.440 (green boundary)
    y = 0.382 (red boundary)

    Light is either white, or it's not-- the color temperature, or coördinated color temperature, is not referenced in the definition, therefore there is no "trimming" to be done. SPD, not CCT, is defined in the CIE color system.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Yeah, you can redefine the leftmost boundary with a line that corresponds to a CCT. Not hard to do.
    The BBL is inside this box, and most lighting is on, or nearly on the BBL line. The exception being LED lighting.
    So it is better to stop this horrible proliferation of blue lights, now rather than later.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    I estimate it's somewhere around 5000-6000K. While this may be "true daylight"
    Despite the persistent marketing claims, neither HID nor LED headlamps produce light that is, in any real sense, like daylight (at any lattitude, in any weather, at any time of day).

    The high color temp is a characteristic of the more efficient HID burners, not a deliberate choice.
    Actually, if we confine the discussion to automotive HID bulbs (leaving out irrelevant types like sodium-vapor that aren't used in car lights), efficacy is inversely proportional to CCT: as CCT goes higher, efficacy goes lower.

    likewise, high color temp LED emitters are more efficient than neutral or warm tints.
    That is generally true, but we are well into (and going deeper into) the territory of having more light than needed available from LED headlamp light sources, so there's "room" to specify the LEDs with slightly lower efficacy. Moreover, even if we feel the need to grasp at every last possible lumen, that disregards the question of how usable the light is. If we're counting all the light, even the blue light that's unusable or counterproductive, we're not really making an honest count.

    I'd prefer a nice 219-like headlight
    What is a "219-like" headlight?

    but I've heard repeatedly that studies don't show a great disadvantage to low CRI or high color temp vehicle headlamps.
    The first part (no safety effect from relatively low CRI) is correct. The second part (no safety effect from CCT) is not -- take a look at that last thread Alaric links.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by dc38 View Post
    I didn't think about latitude...hm....

    i learned before grade school that monitors and light related imaging generally operate on RGB rather than tangible pigmented RYB (with some exceptions, one of which is that led tv with RGBY) Also, our eyeballs aren't meant to look at light SOURCES for extended periods of time, so the perceived colors from a monitor may vary slightly than what is seen in real life, even given the proper color correction.
    I don't think you mean RYB for pigments but CYM. One is an additive color system and one is subtractive. Whether a source emits or reflects .... The eye/brain has no idea.

    Semiman

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Personally, I believe my human eyes evolved for their low light vision to be best using sunrise or sunset light, and that runs more to the red/orange/yellow side.

    It's unfortunate, but it seems the earliest automotive HID lights were a bit bluish and that started a horrible fad. Suddenly, blue is the cool thing, and buzzwords like "xenon" and "hyper-white" start flying around. I keep hoping some other, less annoying fad will take over, perhaps a trend toward selective yellow - let's all be "retro-French" or something. But until a new fad arrives, we're all stuck tolerating annoying blue lights.

    Lately, I've been watching the effect of signals in close proximity to headlights, recalling conversations here where Scheinwerfermann pointed out why we have rules about both brightness of signals and distance from main headlights. One small local privately owned newspaper delivery car that runs around with headlights and flashers on, seems to have succumbed to the glaring blue headlight fad. I don't think it helps visibility of his flashers.

    I'm curious about the effect of headlight color on the visibility of adjacent signal flashers. On an intuitive level, one would think a less yellow headlight would have more contrast against the yellow of the flasher.

    BTW, last night I saw some moron who had apparently intalled bluish-white LED signals on the rear of his minivan (which appeared to be designed for a yellow signal bulb behind a clear lens). The left in particular was quite dim. Neither was good, and I rather expect that a blue-white light on the rear of a forward moving vehicle will eventually earn him a ticket.

    We went to a city for dinner, saw plenty of police activity. They are using various shades of blue and red on their flashers. But the wreckers with yellow and red on their light bars seemed more easily visible at distance.
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    What is a "219-like" headlight?
    this being cpf, it probably refers to the x19-H1 family of Nichia's hi-cri, typically sw45 tinted leds,
    http://dmcleish.com/CPF/HighCRI/NichiaLED-CRI-Info.jpg

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Personally, I believe my human eyes evolved for their low light vision to be best using sunrise or sunset light, and that runs more to the red/orange/yellow side.

    It's unfortunate, but it seems the earliest automotive HID lights were a bit bluish and that started a horrible fad. Suddenly, blue is the cool thing, and buzzwords like "xenon" and "hyper-white" start flying around. I keep hoping some other, less annoying fad will take over, perhaps a trend toward selective yellow - let's all be "retro-French" or something. But until a new fad arrives, we're all stuck tolerating annoying blue lights.

    Lately, I've been watching the effect of signals in close proximity to headlights, recalling conversations here where Scheinwerfermann pointed out why we have rules about both brightness of signals and distance from main headlights. One small local privately owned newspaper delivery car that runs around with headlights and flashers on, seems to have succumbed to the glaring blue headlight fad. I don't think it helps visibility of his flashers.

    I'm curious about the effect of headlight color on the visibility of adjacent signal flashers. On an intuitive level, one would think a less yellow headlight would have more contrast against the yellow of the flasher.

    BTW, last night I saw some moron who had apparently intalled bluish-white LED signals on the rear of his minivan (which appeared to be designed for a yellow signal bulb behind a clear lens). The left in particular was quite dim. Neither was good, and I rather expect that a blue-white light on the rear of a forward moving vehicle will eventually earn him a ticket.

    We went to a city for dinner, saw plenty of police activity. They are using various shades of blue and red on their flashers. But the wreckers with yellow and red on their light bars seemed more easily visible at distance.
    The various manufacturers of emergency lights have admitted to struggling to find LEDs that are consistently the correct shade of colour, especially the blue LED.
    Compounding the issue is the habit of end users of interweaving red/blue through the light bars and using split colour heads with poor choice of flash pattern.
    Numerous studies have shown that in daylight conditions red the most visible colour while blue is more effective at night, due to the red emergency lights blending in with other traffic.
    Yes I'm night blind!
    Can't you see?

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by irsa76 View Post
    The various manufacturers of emergency lights have admitted to struggling to find LEDs that are consistently the correct shade of colour, especially the blue LED.
    Some [citation needed] going on here.

    Compounding the issue is the habit of end users of interweaving red/blue through the light bars and using split colour heads with poor choice of flash pattern.
    They're going to use what they bought-- the lights are designed to be placed alongside each other.

    Numerous studies have shown that in daylight conditions red the most visible colour while blue is more effective at night, due to the red emergency lights blending in with other traffic.
    Which studies?

    It's more complex than you think-- the human eye is most sensitive to green, for one. Also, if you're using white light and filtering for red, vs. using an LED that is designed to emit a particular color, there will be differences in how they are detected and whether they will create disability glare or not.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Personally, I believe my human eyes evolved for their low light vision to be best using sunrise or sunset light, and that runs more to the red/orange/yellow side.
    That's a reasonable-sounding belief...but so is the one that goes "I believe my human eyes evolved for their low light vision to be best using dawn or twilight, and that runs more to the blue side". Not only do beliefs (as such) really have no place in a facts/science-based discussion, but the definition of "low light vision" is a moving target. Night driving conditions are not photopic (daytime light levels) and they are not scotopic (nighttime light levels). They are mesopic.

    It's unfortunate, but it seems the earliest automotive HID lights were a bit bluish and that started a horrible fad.
    The earliest automotive HIDs were almost as blue as the latest automotive HIDs. It probably didn't have to be that way, but automakers are driven by their marketing departments, and they wouldn't touch a premium-priced headlamp that looks about the same as the regular-price item.

    Suddenly, blue is the cool thing, and buzzwords like "xenon" and "hyper-white" start flying around.
    ...with even the legitimate manufacturers jumping in, and their marketing departments grotesquely distorting and exaggerating "scientific proof" that so-called "whiter" light is better, not to mention the bogus "closer to natural sunlight" claims, etc.

    I keep hoping some other, less annoying fad will take over, perhaps a trend toward selective yellow
    Not terribly likely, though maybe if the engineers win (which they won't; the marketers already have)

    Lately, I've been watching the effect of signals in close proximity to headlights. I'm curious about the effect of headlight color on the visibility of adjacent signal flashers. On an intuitive level, one would think a less yellow headlight would have more contrast against the yellow of the flasher.
    Yes, a bluer headlamp can increase conspicuity of the nearby amber turn signal via increased color contrast. But it doesn't rise to the level of making it into the regulations (there's no linkage of required turn signal intensity vs. headlamp color, for example).

    One small local privately owned newspaper delivery car that runs around with headlights and flashers on, seems to have succumbed to the glaring blue headlight fad. I don't think it helps visibility of his flashers.
    Well, if his headlamps are suddenly "Glaring blue", he's probably installed an "HID kit", which is illegal and unsafe regardless of what color it is.

    BTW, last night I saw some moron who had apparently intalled bluish-white LED signals on the rear of his minivan (which appeared to be designed for a yellow signal bulb behind a clear lens).
    Yuck. I see this kind of dumb junk far too often...

    I rather expect that a blue-white light on the rear of a forward moving vehicle will eventually earn him a ticket.
    ...I don't. The police either don't care, don't think they can make the ticket stick in court, or can't keep up with the zillions of different-looking lights that are legal, let alone the ones that are illegal.

    We went to a city for dinner, saw plenty of police activity. They are using various shades of blue and red on their flashers.
    Thank heaven the Xenon flash/strobe tubes have mostly been chased off the road by LEDs!

    But the wreckers with yellow and red on their light bars seemed more easily visible at distance.
    Up in Canada, Ontario changed from red to red/blue on their police cars after finding that the combination does a better job than the single color (see here for a not-very-detailed report on what was actually a large amount of research). To (over)simplify, red lights are closer than they appear, while blue lights are farther away than they appear -- these two effects are variable depending on ambient light levels, too. Using both colors allows the two effects to cancel each other out.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    Actually, if we confine the discussion to automotive HID bulbs (leaving out irrelevant types like sodium-vapor that aren't used in car lights), efficacy is inversely proportional to CCT: as CCT goes higher, efficacy goes lower.
    Understood. You are right and I know that, I worded my post badly. What I was trying to get across is that I don't believe that it is possible to make a HID light with a color temp as low as that of a halogen bulb (or is it? I haven't seen one, anyway) nor a halogen bulb with a CCT significantly higher than around 3000K, and that the HIDs are more efficient than the halogens. But yes, I would assume that the sweet spot for efficacy of HID would be around the popular 4200-4500K range, otherwise the OEMs would be using something else. And yes, the higher CCT "tuner" HIDs aren't as efficient as OEM HIDs. The distinct difference between the 1st gen HIDs and halogens in terms of CCT of course gave rise to the *preference* for higher CCTs among the general buying public as they associated the higher CCT of the HIDs with being newer, better, brighter, and more desirable without understanding that it was not necessarily the higher CCT that made HIDs desirable but other factors. And of course the "keeping up with the Joneses" factor of it being obvious to anyone seeing the car at night that it was equipped with the newer, better, more expensive technology.


    That is generally true, but we are well into (and going deeper into) the territory of having more light than needed available from LED headlamp light sources, so there's "room" to specify the LEDs with slightly lower efficacy. Moreover, even if we feel the need to grasp at every last possible lumen, that disregards the question of how usable the light is. If we're counting all the light, even the blue light that's unusable or counterproductive, we're not really making an honest count.
    But every engineer I know would rather use 9.5W than 10W for the same light output unless you can make a compelling case to him that using the lower CCT/higher CRI emitter is really better. and of course there is still the perception that "low" e.g. 3000Kish CCT headlights are old school, outdated, and undesirable so the marketing/product planning guys will probably still be pushing for higher CCTs unless/until the market is saturated with HIDs to the point where their bling factor drops off.

    What is a "219-like" headlight?
    I meant a headlight with the CCT and CRI of the Nichia 219 high CRI emitter... lovely thing it is.

    The first part (no safety effect from relatively low CRI) is correct. The second part (no safety effect from CCT) is not -- take a look at that last thread Alaric links.
    I'll check it out later... stuff to do ATM, but I will definitely make an effort to come back to this.
    Last edited by N8N; 02-17-2014 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Great posts, thanks for responding.

    I was always under the impression that a hot tungsten filament was closer to a black body emitter (the sun) than 'artificial' sources such as an LED or HID bulb, where colors can vary greatly. That is why, in my opinion, a halogen bulb is much easier on the eyes and makes things look more natural. Is there any truth to this?

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
    Great posts, thanks for responding.

    I was always under the impression that a hot tungsten filament was closer to a black body emitter (the sun) than 'artificial' sources such as an LED or HID bulb, where colors can vary greatly. That is why, in my opinion, a halogen bulb is much easier on the eyes and makes things look more natural. Is there any truth to this?
    Yes. An incandescent light source has a very high CRI (Color Rendering Index) 100 or very close to it. If you don't know what that means, hopefully I've given you the keywords you need to start reading; warning, you'll probably get sucked into an internet rabbit hole but you might learn a lot.

    The other thing that is worth pointing out is that CCT (Correlated Color Temperature) is independent of CRI and vice versa. The headlights in my Jeep are incan H4s so they likely have a CRI of 95+ and a CCT of somewhere in the 2900-3000K range. The HIDs in my BMW have a CCT of somewhere in the 4200-4300K range and likely a not very good CRI. However I have a Nichia 219 P60 drop in in an old Surefire flashlight which has a CCT of around 4500K but a 92+ CRI. So there's really two questions to be asked:

    1) is there an ideal or an ideal range of CCTs for automotive headlamps?
    2) Of course higher CRI is always "better" but how important is it in this context?

    I'm not going to hazard a guess at 1) because I'm still reading the interesting (in a geeky way) thread that Alaric posted and Headlight Guy pointed me towards. My personal preference on 2) is heck yeah I want high CRI headlamps but I've been given repeated references to the effect that the difference in actually helping you see *in the context of driving at night* is not that significant.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by N8N View Post
    I don't believe that it is possible to make a HID light with a color temp as low as that of a halogen bulb (or is it?
    HID bulb chemistry is outside my specialized knowledge, but I'm pretty sure it is possible to do it.

    higher CCT "tuner" HIDs aren't as efficient as OEM HIDs.
    True, though the best-performing HID bulbs (the Philips X-Treme Vision items) claim 4800K.

    The distinct difference between the 1st gen HIDs and halogens in terms of CCT of course gave rise to the *preference* for higher CCTs among the general buying public as they associated the higher CCT of the HIDs with being newer, better, brighter, and more desirable without understanding that it was not necessarily the higher CCT that made HIDs desirable but other factors. And of course the "keeping up with the Joneses" factor of it being obvious to anyone seeing the car at night that it was equipped with the newer, better, more expensive technology.
    Yup. Who would have paid hundreds or thousands of dollars extra for the HID headlamps (or the "Preferred Technology Option Package") if they didn't look different enough to make the neighbors jealous?

    I meant a headlight with the CCT and CRI of the Nichia 219 high CRI emitter... lovely thing it is.
    Ah, I'll have to look at the specs. There are LEDs that give superb color rendering, but they have not (yet?) been used to make headlamps because everyone's busy chasing the bluer and bluer and bluer appearances. I would much rather have LED headlamps made of LEDs like these or these (they really are every bit as good as claimed).

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    HID bulb chemistry is outside my specialized knowledge, but I'm pretty sure it is possible to do it.



    True, though the best-performing HID bulbs (the Philips X-Treme Vision items) claim 4800K.



    Yup. Who would have paid hundreds or thousands of dollars extra for the HID headlamps (or the "Preferred Technology Option Package") if they didn't look different enough to make the neighbors jealous?



    Ah, I'll have to look at the specs. There are LEDs that give superb color rendering, but they have not (yet?) been used to make headlamps because everyone's busy chasing the bluer and bluer and bluer appearances. I would much rather have LED headlamps made of LEDs like these or these (they really are every bit as good as claimed).

    I have no personal experience with them, but I have seen 3000K bulbs listed on automotive "sites" regularly. Considering that 3K metal halide is quite common in general lighting for retail and grocery, there appears to be no reason why not.

    Semiman

  23. #23

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    Ah, I'll have to look at the specs. There are LEDs that give superb color rendering, but they have not (yet?) been used to make headlamps because everyone's busy chasing the bluer and bluer and bluer appearances. I would much rather have LED headlamps made of LEDs like these or these (they really are every bit as good as claimed).
    >95 CRI and a choice of color temps? Do want! I would imagine that they're as expensive as they look though.

    Here's the data sheet for the "good" 219. I have one of them in a P60 drop in and completely subjectively, it's nice.

    http://www.nichia.co.jp/specificatio...L219A-H1-E.pdf
    Last edited by N8N; 02-17-2014 at 06:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by SemiMan View Post
    I have no personal experience with them, but I have seen 3000K bulbs listed on automotive "sites" regularly.
    Those aren't 3000K or any other CCT, they're (more or less) selective yellow with a bogus/random kelvin number applied.

    Considering that 3K metal halide is quite common in general lighting for retail and grocery, there appears to be no reason why not.
    Agreed (back in the land of reality and its realistic CCTs).

  25. #25

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    Those aren't 3000K or any other CCT, they're (more or less) selective yellow with a bogus/random kelvin number applied.
    Selective yellow HIDs? (strokes chin)

    I'm afraid to ask, because I have a feeling I know the answer already, but are they any good, and would they be considered an upgrade over the (probably relabeled Philips) stock BMW D2S burners?

    A quick search indicated that Philips had made them, but no shopping results, so I'm assuming that they've been discontinued?

    Edit: I should have known this as I actually did the bulb chart for the early E92 for E90post... was getting my car mixed up with different models, mine actually uses D1S not D2S so it looks like when it comes to replacement time I should just bite the bullet and get the (pricey) D1S Xtreme Vision?
    Last edited by N8N; 02-18-2014 at 07:52 AM.

  26. #26
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by N8N View Post
    Selective yellow HIDs? (strokes chin)

    I'm afraid to ask, because I have a feeling I know the answer already, but are they any good, and would they be considered an upgrade over the (probably relabeled Philips) stock BMW D2S burners?
    There's very little reason your headlamps should be selective yellow, considering headlamps are required to be white. Selective yellow low beams are still permitted if they were on the vehicle as sold, which almost certainly excludes any vehicle made with HID headlamps (France stopped requiring selective yellow headlamps in '93).

    And if you want them for fog lamps, well, there are no actual fog lamps that use an arc-discharge light source, which means you'd be relying on one of those "kits" (which, of course, you know the stock, and correct, answer for that!).

  27. #27

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    There's very little reason your headlamps should be selective yellow, considering headlamps are required to be white.
    True.

    Selective yellow low beams are still permitted if they were on the vehicle as sold, which almost certainly excludes any vehicle made with HID headlamps (France stopped requiring selective yellow headlamps in '93).
    Actually, selective yellow headlamps -- low and high beam alike -- while no longer required in any country (though Monaco's statutes still say they are!) are still permitted in a variety of countries, whether or not the vehicle originally came equipped that way. The US and Canada aren't on that list, though.

    Philips and Ichikoh used to make selective yellow D2S and D2R bulbs. Philips stopped, though occasionally stocks can be found. Ichikoh may or may not still make them; they were very expensive and it's very difficult to buy stuff in Japan if you don't happen to be there. There are, of course, lots of off-brand pretenders.

    N8N, the D1S X-Treme Vision or the D2S X-Treme Vision + Xe-Spark igniter would be the best-performing pick.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    OK, so we're drifting here, and I still haven't had time to give that thread a thorough read... but that igniter is brilliant! I feel like I ought to order those; then when it's replacement time I'll be able to use much less expensive D2S bulbs instead of the jaw dropping D1S, but if I lose one on the road I could install either a D1S or D2S whatever I could get. Are there any downsides to that plan? (Xe-spark less reliable than Philips?) Also can you recommend a vendor for the XVs? Finally my car is a 2009 with a little over 80K miles; I can't speak for its early life but most of the miles I've put on it are night. Would replacing the bulbs now and keeping one of the originals as a spare be advisable at this point, or is it still a youngun?

  29. #29

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    for some reason new acuras mdx, and rlx, the ones with new all led headlights, do look purplish to me, not that it bothers me, they don't seem to blind or make me uncomfortable in any way. just that color, i don't remember seeing since early 90's bmw 7 series hid.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Modern headlight tint distracting

    IME there's no disadvantage to the Xe-Spark, it's a quality product. I tend to use PowerBulbs for bulbs like this that don't have an American distribution line (or don't have a reasonable-cost supply line here).

    HID bulbs do dim appreciably with usage. Whether yours have dimmed enough to make replacement worthwhile, can't be answered by remote control :-)
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 02-18-2014 at 04:08 PM.

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